Celtic Banter Archive July 20 2014

20 Jul 2014 19:02:44
been looking at aquinos stats with villareal, one goal in 32, 4 assists in 32, his biggest assest seems to be pace . (for all the fans who watched in the 70s is this another atholl Henderson, ) if he did come and play good we are talking 3 million, I would rather we spent that on someone like quincy promes(fc twente), same position but can also be used rm cm lm lw , in a similar amount of games (31) has scored 11 with 8 assists watched him run Scotland u21s ragged a few months ago, and if he pushed on in his game at 22 we would make money on him rather than giving him back to a parent club

Great shout with Promes. That whole Dutch side ran Scotland ragged! Watched it myself.

20 Jul 2014 13:17:59
Hello all.Not posted for a while and just been catching up on the posts and it seems nothing has changed.Still the same shouts for us to spend millions on transfers, why?

Now don't get me wrong I would love to see a signing that excites us and brings the stay aways back but would that not defeat the purpose of bring RD in? In my opinion we have appointed a coach who has made his name by making players better.A coach who it seems is not afraid of playing younger players and tinkering with formations to make that happen.This must be a good thing surely?

For me the problem is the squad he inherited from Neil Lennon. This has to be trimmed, that will hopefully free funds to maybe make some astute signings.Neil had three seasons to bleed some young players into the squad to see if they could cut it at our level.That pretty much never happened, and there were plenty opportunities, now RD has to have time to trim our squad and bring some fresh faces.

There has also been much talk of the money generated, transfers and CL cash being the main source of income, but that is something of a false flag in my opinion. I don't know the full implications of the FFP rulings but surely we have to be very careful with our cash? There is also the thorny question of attendances.At some games last season the crowds at home were frankly pathetic.We all know the various reasons for this but truthfully if you stayed away from Celtic Park because of no sevco you need to have a look at yourself.

RD is just in the door, let's give him a chance and the time to assess the squad.Give him time to bring his own players in and promote the young players he thinks will suit his style of play.We play in Scotland and are not guaranteed a place in the CL groups and without this we are a hard sell to any player far less players earning over 20k per week. Celtic fans should know price tags prove nothing.Two of our greatest players were brought to the club only because of a new managers knowledge of them.They cost under £1m FOR THE TWO OF THEM. Henrik and Lubo.Both revered by all Celts but hardly household names when they arrived.

GJ - The stay aways as you put it have every right to decide against watching what has been an extremely poor product for years now.

I know guys that have had season books for half there lives since the stadium was upgraded and they have finally had enough of spending all there money for Celtic to simply waste it on useless transfer after transfer.

Lets be honest, RD formation is with one main striker and two wingers. Now based on last year we simply do not have the players to make this a success. No striker in our team is capable of playing as the sole striker. Derk & Forrest - would be ideal for the formation but they spend most of the year on the treatment table and when they do play there is a severe lack of a final ball to the striker.

We need to invest in a player that will not only be able to play in RD formation but a player that will make the average player appear to be better. That's what Henrik and Lubo did, they helped make the average decent players look better than what they actually where. Now before you hammer of names like Sutton, Hartson, Viduka & Petrov played with Henrik, its my opinion that Henrik made all these guys look far better than what they actually were. Henrik was simply world class and one world class player really can make a difference.

I think I've said on here before about the AC Milan game last season at Parkhead when we got beat 3-0 there was a few guys sitting near us going at it hammers and tongs arguing - not me, I had the kids!

When we went 2-0 down a few fans were screaming at Lennon to get this player and that off the field, make changes blah blah. A few other fans were shouting back his best 11 were on the park.

The team was:- Forster, Lustig, Ambrose, VVD, Izaguirre, Mulgrew, Kayal, Forrest, Samaras, Commons & Boerrigter.

Subs:- Stokes, Ledley, Blade, Rogic, Zaluska and Fisher

Matthews was injured, Ledley was just back from injury and Brown was suspended.

I'm looking at those subs and don't see one player who could have made a difference (Ledley did go on for Kayal in the first half).

Think my point is GJ, I agree with you that we need to make changes and sell a few players but our squad is so light on quality that I would worry about selling players without actually seeing what difference a replacement could make and that includes Biton and Johansen.

Maybe I'm being overly cautious but I'd worry if Mulgrew got injured!

@greenjhedi mate its more a case of fans wanting to see £ spent more wisely. Pukki, balde and boerigter have been unimpressive. I agree with you, you don't have to spend millions. This has been proven.

@mrs e pmsl contradicting statement regarding post from a few months back

@Kev T: A bit harsh on some players there I thought mate. Hartson scored goals and linked well with every player he was paired with. Viduka scored plenty for Leeds and ripped us up in Europe, and Stan was a solid international player for years and a big favourite with the Villa fans. Sutton decimated international defenders in the Prem then had a bad spell at Chelsea, thankfully or we would never have got him.

I will agree that Henrik helped them, they all say what a great player he was to play with, but they were hardly just average. I agree a player to knit it all together is the key to any successful team but who wants to play up here?

@Mrs E: Agreed, but every transfer is a gamble at the financial level we are at surely? I think we need a clear out to finance one big deal every few years.The problem then is the attitude of pampered pro's and their agents bitching about someone earning more than them! It's a fine balancing act I think.

I think Celtic have taken one gamble to many recently and we're struggling to replace Hooper.

Hooper, he's hardly a Larsson and we can't get him replaced.

DN - honestly, again?

GJ - Didn't mean to come across as saying the players mentioned where average. Henrik did though make them better or look better than what they were.

Its all levels, Henrik was out of this world hence the move to Barcelona. Stan Petrov moved to Aston Villa, hardly anything to get excited about and let's face it the team around him was very average.

Hartson and Sutton never really set the world on fire either ( apart from when Sutton had Shearer beside him ) Just basically trying to say that if we spend big, it has to be on real quality and one player can make that difference and give not only the fans but the players a huge lift.

{Ed007's Note - You're doing Sutton a bit of a disservice Kev, he had a poor time at Chelsea but apart from that I think he was a cracking player and proved it at Blackburn and CFC. Look at his goal scoring record for us (86 goals in 189, 16 in Europe) and remember how often he played at the back for us as well. He also had a 1 in 3 ration for Norwich before moving to Blackburn and also played a lot at CB for them, he scored 21 goals in the EPL the season after Shearer left them as well, before going to Chelsea who just didn't play to his strengths.
I don't think Shearer and Larsson, especially Shearer who was an out and out poacher, would have scored quite as many goals if it hadn't been for Sutton, he had a fantastic partnership with both of them and all 3 scored plenty, he done a lot of the dirty/physical work to help create chances.}

The answer is simple gj we need better quality at striker, we need a rw for ronnys system, we need another cb even if we don't lose vvd, we need another lb and if foster goes we need another goalie as a man who has been out injured 2 years is a major gamble in case of breakdone /recurrence or are we just going to be a tarining facility for loanees

The squad needs to be trimmed because we have taken too many gambles looking for bargains/going for cheap options. What was wrong with buying Atsu last year for £5 million instead of going for the cheap option in Dirk? We don't need a huge squad playing in Scotland - our kids should be good enough to compliment the squad and win the SPL, if they're not then they shouldn't be with us. Technically we should only be buying players for Europe - even 2 top players every year at a good age/with a re-sale value would be fine! As it is Ronny has to work his way through a mess that Lennon/Lawwell/Park have left him. He might have made his name improving kids etc in Norway, but we're a different animal, and the fans are entitled to better than this crap. By all means if Lawwell wants to go and finish phase 2 of Lennoxtown, get better youth coaches, spend money on better sports scientists/fitness coaches etc, then fine, but I don't bloody want my money getting wasted on players who should be no-where near Celtic!

Figures are better than what I remembered. My problem is I always thought the sun shone out of Henrik a$%e.

And with the rubbish we have had since I suppose I can only dream of having another talent like him to score loads of goals and not just in the Scottish league but in Europe as well.

Kev, your first post is spot on. Larsson was either a fluke or an insanely good shout for his price tag. Hartson and Sutton though, both great players, and worth the money. Some people scoff at the money we spent on that side and players like those, but look at the success they bring you. GJ it all boils down to speculate to accumulate mate. It's such a pessimistic view to say we shouldn't spend for the fear of it not working. Generally it has done. Sutton, Hartson, NL etc. Then now, our most influential player (if not second most), is our most expensive player.

20 Jul 2014 10:50:29
Are fans happy with the loan route we appear to be going down, rather than permanent deals? Aquino looks good but back to square one next summer

Ronny has a good record with loan signings from his old team so let's trust his judgment! Loans aren't for me personally but if Ronny thinks he can possibly get a better loan player than one he has a budget for well we will see!

We haven't made any loan moves, just a few rumours .
Even if we do have a loan or two in, it doesn't mean that we are necessary going down that route . Ronnie is just in the door and if the only way he can get the type of playe he wants is by loan . Then that is the way to go for this window .

20 Jul 2014 01:10:22
Absolutely Scunnered by Celtic with not investing in the team! Sick of buying two three new tops every year and then season ticket and champions league ticket money for Celtic to not invest and penny pinch in the 1.5m bracket feel as if we are getting it ripped right out of us! The team is very average and is badly needing 2 or 3 quality players the money must be there from the champions league the last few seasons and the money from the sales of ki hooper wanyama etc we can't keep selling our best players and not replacing them. can't understand why we can't go out and spend four or five million on two or three players that will improve the team get usto the champions leauge and miby not make us the whipping boys in the CL group!actully terified thinking about what Europe's elite would do to that Celtic team!

Because players of that caliber aren't wantin to play in our leauge mate

Pepe, do you not think RD needs some time before he decides where he needs to strengthen? IMHO he will need 2-3 transfer windows as well as time to bring through youth players. That's what we all want after all, is it not?

Yeah I agree mate, I've been saying it for ages, also everyone I speak to is of the same mind. Buying a bit of quality isn't a gamble, as long as they are a good age, scraping around all the time looking for bargains is a gamble because you end up wasting money on wages/players who are never going to be good enough! They are that price for a reason, sure you get the odd cracking deal/real bargain, but when you are always doing this it doesn't work - you get found out, end up with an oversized squad, which ruins the dynamic of the group/makes it more difficult for the manager to have a good atmosphere etc. It's absolutely pathetic, we don't even get told the definitive price that the player cost(Balde/Pukki/Dirk) - it ranges from £1 million - £3 million depending on the source. It is patronizing at best, shameful at worst, the Celtic fans are completed like prize fools, - you hear what all the big stars say when they visit Parkhead(Ibrahimovic/Xavi/Iniesta etc) they say how lucky the club are to have fans like this - Lawwell better start taking this on board, because loads of people I know are at breaking point, loads of my friends/family are knocking back the offer of season books every week from book holders that don't want to go to the game because the quality isn't there, and because they feel disgusted. One friend has 3 books that are going unused most weeks, but the penny is dropping for more and more, so as I said, they better sort it out. With Ronny coming in they had a chance to get everyone really excited, but with the weeks going by you think that well he can't perform miracles because the squad is full of people that should never be at Celtic, we have so many players that, and I include most of the youth players that have come through, are worth between £500k - £2 million. It's not good enough, guys like Stokes/Griffiths/Balde - what sort of Celtic strikeforce is that? When I started going to the games We had McClair/Macca/McInally, and right through the decades since we have had great Celtic strikers, this lot at present are imposters, of course the irony is we are supposedly in the best shape ever, - only at Celtic would this be possible!

M8 totally agree, don't think any reasonable Celtic fan is looking for players in the £6m+ bracket, but at least the board show be showing some ambition (LoL), after all if we don't invest then the big money from getting into the CL group stages will be lost and that's not an option for Celtic we need and have come to rely on that cash but at the end of the day we have to have quality in the side to even compete!

I was just wondering if any of you guys haven't renewed your Season Ticket or if you usually just go when you can but won't be really bothering this season - just what the reason is (assuming it's not financial, work or health that is)?

I definitely think the Club are now playing with fire. If there is an explanation for lack of transfer activity when we can all so blatantly see we are lacking in a few positions, then some kind of explanation would be good. We were seriously punching above our weight in Europe last season and got horribly found out - this season isn't looking any better.

I've renewed Mrs E, but out of a crowd of us(inc friends/family) about 8 haven't - I've really only done it because I let my young nephew use mine 80% of the time, he's still at the stage where it's all still novel/exciting - the rest of us seen the light years ago! I don't mind losing money, It's part of being a fan, I've lost thousands on the shares I bought when Fergus took over, because I bought them to keep forever, not make a profit on. But I certainly don't like getting treated like an ars£hole!

Maybe the reason we keep selling most of our best players is that they won't stay with us . The Victor's , Hooper and Ki all demanded to leave . If we cannot keep players who go to bottom EPL teams is it any wonder we cannot sign real quality .

Yourman - Lawwell will love you, that's all he needs, more excuses. There is top quality players out there who would be falling over themselves to come to Celtic, even more so if we acted the way we should be acting. We got totally humbled in Europe last year by the worst AJax/Milan teams that I have seen in 30 years going to the football. It all comes down to the bottom line - something isn't working, and it better change. If you are happy with the status quo then I'm obviously missing something!

Well Paul 1. I neither care what Lawwell or anyone else thinks of me . However I hold the view that it's better to invest wisely than spend £5/8 million on players hoping they will do well. Funny enough despite wonderful support many Celtic players who think they are in that money category can't wait until they get away . Why are u so sure we can sign that value of a player

{Ed007's Note - Don't be so naive, if you are willing to spend the money you can sign anyone, even a Messi or Ronaldo. 98% of players will go to who offers them the most money, 1% will go where their agent tells them and 1% don't bother about money because they are happy with their lot. Do you think Samnuel Eto'o went to Anzhi Makhachkala because the Russian league is so strong or to win the CL, or do you think it was the £300k a week (after tax) they paid him?}

Paul I've renewed as well.

I'll be honest, Ki was folks favourite player? When, wit game? Ki was a talent but never if your friggin life was he suited to the Scottish game and whit game did you decide he was your favourite player? Always been cynical of the online thing but this rips the ar*e right out.

{Ed007's Note - That's a bit random......}

In reply to Paul's post it was random lol. Very observant Ed :-)

It was to do with a post I had seen the other day about players of the recent past, Ki? And Ledley last season who was injured them left for Crystal Palace? :-

I was thinking about who's been my favourite Celtic player, season to season, since I started going to the games regularly.

So here goes:

97/98: Larsson / Lambert
98/99: Larsson / Lambert
99/00: Viduka / Moravcik
00/01: Larsson / Valgaeren / Mjallby
01:02: Larsson / Lambert / Hartson / Mjallby
02/03: Larsson / Hartson / Balde / Sutton
03/04: Larsson / Sutton / Hartson
04/05: Hartson / Petrov
05/06: Hartson / Petrov
06/07: Nakamura / Boruc
07/08: Boruc / Robson / McDonald
08/09: Samaras / Boruc
09/10: Keane / Hinkel
10/11: Ledley / Hooper
11/12: Ledley / Ki
12/13: Samaras / Ledley / Lustig
13/14: van Dijk / Commons / Ledley

How would everyone else's look?

I'm not quite as anal about it as your good self Mrs E, but I've always liked players who were respectful of the club/fans, and who were consistent, maybe not world beaters, but selfless in their play. Guys like Aitken/McStay/Bonner/Collins, more recently, Sutton/Mjallby, currently, Forster/Lustig/Henderson, that's just a few examples of players I've liked, and a few different reasons - I'll have missed a few out, but the memory isn't quite what it was - let's blame the liquor!

You mentioned Valgaeren, he is the best centre half we have had since Paul Elliot, I've been going to the games for 30 years and those 2 are the best I have seen - Virgil doesn't come close!

Sorry Paul my post from last night does seem random and not explained well. The players aren't mine, it's a copy of Hamilton Bhoy's from the other day. I'm much the same as yourself and couldn't remember specific seasons without looking them up. 1998 stands out as we stopped 10, things like that I remember.

I was just surprised to see Ki as a favourite player that was all and did get distracted lol

I'm delighted with the signing of VVD but my jury is still out as every time he was seriously tested, collapse. I know some will blame Ambrose (fair enough) but Ambrose partnered Kelvin Wilson in the CL the season before and we were outstanding defensively - Juventus I know but he was just back from the ACN. Different team as well without Wanyama but I'm just hmmm

In recent times my only really stand out favourite was Larsson. I remember when I was younger I loved Charlie Nic and just thought Pat Bonner was the Celtic goalkeeper forever, it would never change!

Sometimes I like to see a player who may not be the most gifted but has a right good work rate, really puts in a shift. I admire that.

Anyway before I got distracted, I have renewed my season tickets and hoping to see a few goals at Murrayfield. My Sons are young and don't really understand all this going on with the Board etc - a simpler time for us all I think. My oldest Son in particular is a football fan and would watch anything including a dire Celtic performance.

I had a discussion the other day about fans with a sense of entitlement, it was to do with Brazil fans and just wondered if we do that at times? Like Pepe's original post, not having a go as we've all done it - 'I'm no paying X amount to watch that crap' when you have fans of Clubs who haven't won a thing.

Bummer - I was going to ask you round to organize my life. I can hardly remember 98, never mind my fav player from that year. What you said about us almost expecting/demanding is true, I act like a spoiled brat at the best of times, but I just feel that the club don't act like the giant we are. We aren't dynamic enough, I agree that's it's all relative, and because we play in Scotland we can only do so much, but in business/life there is always a way if you have the right people in charge. I won't be happy until we win the European Cup again, I am a bit of a romantic, but if you don't aim for that then you are as well chucking it! I think you can place huge demands on the club, but still have class/be gracious at the same time! That's why I like Deila - he seems to get that everything is possible, not just with hard work, but by being open to learning new ideas. I've been saying for years that the coaching at Celtic was draconian - but so many people were just happy to have a good Celtic man in Lennon running the club. Maybe I'm a bit thick, but why could we produce world class players 30/40 years ago at Barrowfield, but not now, why can all the other big clubs in Europe produce them, but we bring through guys that are playing in Div 1/2 in Scotland by the time they are 25? Cheers

An overbearing sense of entitlement from fans is certainly not the classiest way to behave.

All day long Celtic are a big Club but the problem is the financial gulf between the top European Clubs and Celtic is massive and nobody has the answer for this. Your Real Madrid, Barca's etc are utterly ruthless and look at the money for football kits - recently Man Utd. No idea what Celtic's deal is with Nike but I can imagine it will be insignificant in comparison.

I do not know what's happened with the players in Scotland, there's no one near the talent of Dalglish or Jimmy Johnstone, even a Charlie Nicholas (just to name a few) and the Mangers - Stein, Busby, Ferguson, Shankly. These guys weren't just good, they were the best. This is a mystery to me as well Paul.

I've not seen enough of Ronny to make a judgement yet at all but it goes without saying I want him to be a massive success.

I don't think you're alone is not being totally happy until the European Cup is won again lol