13 Mar 2016 08:15:56
Was interesting listening to Deila talking about the difficulty in bringing young players through. One of the reasons he quoted was the pressure to win every game, which is even higher at a club like ours.
He was saying that it is hard to give them game time when you know a loss could mean losing your job. This is something I always suspected was a factor in the lack of talent being brought through in this country and something that we need to address.
So how can we fix this? Well there are two ways that I can see, although I am sure there are others.
1. Ship our players out on loan and hopefully they get game time at a decent level.
2. Have a summit involving in all the clubs, where they all make a commitment to bring through youth players and develop their youth development setup.
Option 2 would be my preferred choice because it would help ensure a healthy future for not only the clubs because it reduces cost but it will also benefit the national team to have good players in the future.
13 Mar 2016 08:35:05
RabMac, we used to have reserve teams leagues which gave players the opportunity but these were scrapped. At one time Celtic and rangers reserve teams were so good it was proposed that they actually get membership to the bottom divisions but that was knocked on the head as well.
The loan deal is probably the only route available and Celtic are used because it gives big clubs like Man City etc. a chance to get THEIR fringe players games at a higher level with almost guraranteed European games.
13 Mar 2016 08:50:17
For me the youth coaches aren't good enough. Also we don't have technical directors/ academy directors in Scotland! He mentioned Ajax, well their set up is better than ours. We've got a guy John Park who was moved from chief scout to football operations manager, but he takes absolutely nothing to do with the youth. We should have a conveyor belt of talent being given to Ronny - ready made to play! That's how teams like Ajax do it. If you're good enough you'll play, regardless of age, that always has and always will be the case! The reason they're not good enough is because of coaching and application. The desire has to come from the kids obviously, but they have to be inspired by the coaches. I read somewhere that the German youth players train around 30% more than the kids in the UK. Also I wouldn't be looking to Norway for inspiration, they're hardly bringing through world class talent every year. I know they've had a few but teams from France, Holland and Germany are doing it constantly.
13 Mar 2016 09:32:51
Delphic we are giving Ronny a string of youth players but as he said he won't play them because we are expected to win every game. Look at the boys out on loan. They would be developed here if we could give them game time. So they go to lesser clubs and the facilities and coaching is not as good but they do get game time but how many come back and play for us. A few but not enough. I don't think it's the development coaches not being good enough. If we went back to a reserve league I think it would help.
13 Mar 2016 09:53:18
I think they have tried different rule changing for this like having to have a certain amount of players under the age of 21 in your match day squad. changed the reserve league to under 20s sending them out on loan is what we do but how meny ever come back mcgregor is the only 1 I can recall ever been out and came back to be a 1st team player hopefully henderson and nesbit come back up play regularly.
13 Mar 2016 10:58:20
What about a B team? Look at a lot of the European sides that have them and the talent they bring through.
13 Mar 2016 12:02:58
RabMac your option 2 is essentially saying we'll start playing more young players as long as all the other teams have to do the same so that there's minimal risk to our club's success. We should be bringing more youth through regardless of the other teams because we have the best facilities in the country and, being the top team, should have the pick of the best young talent who should be able to make the step up to play teams like Kilmarnock and Dundee.
13 Mar 2016 12:09:37
Just read the Delia interview. Ronny is not wrong in what he says about must win now mentality from the board down. It seems Ronny is saying allow me a 5 year project to develop youth and bring them through. That is all well and good but as soon as he developed them Lewell will sell them so he is back to square 1. The reason we have loads of players is because Lawell looks at every signing and thinks he may be someone we can sell for a profit in 2 years. Ronny has stated that Ajax buy the best talent in their league and it looks as if he is trying to copy that by buying the "best" young players in our league? Maybe that is why we have the likes of Scotf Allan? Was an interesting interview. Issue for me is the Lawell but sell policy. He may know how to run a business but a football club is a different animal. No managed has any chance of building anything at Celtic. Just don't think Ronny joined up all the dots before he joined. It's been a lot more difficult than he thought.
13 Mar 2016 12:35:10
Good points johnnymac. I think lawell treats the squad more like a stock inventory than actually considering the footballing side of things.
13 Mar 2016 12:57:41
I agree with Kev - what other clubs do is irrelevant to us. If players are good enough it doesn't matter, because you have to win has nothing to do with it. Every team has to win - Ronny says we have to win, but he plays Teirney instead of Izzy, he must think he's better, so age doesn't even come into it! I'm looking at the last 30/ 40 years, - the last world class, or close to it, player we brought through was Paul McStay, that was 35 years ago! Of course coaches matter - any club will always get the odd one, like McGeady or Teirney, it's the law of averages. The teams with a proper structure and top youth coaches do it every season, it's constant! There's an Anthony Martial coming through in France every few months. All the clubs that can afford it in the Dutch/ French/ German etc etc are producing world class players - how can we not! Belgium is the most recent to sort themselves out! Anderlecht don't have more money than us to spend on youth, they've got the right people in charge, that's the difference!
13 Mar 2016 13:27:33
I think the development coaches are piss poor I was at Celtic for a charity match a few years ago
Mark McNally was one of the coaches to set up our team and run us through some drills his touch was so bad he had to get me and another boy to show the others. At the time he was on Celtics books as a coach at some level.
When coaches can't do the basics we have a big problem. A b side would be logical works for the best leagues so why not Scotland
Would also benefit our clubs by starting a Celtic cup involving Irish Welsh and Scottish clubs. 4 semi finalists from Scotland's league cup and the winners from each of the Irish cups and the finalists from Wales. This would give it experience of travelling and also get different teams.
13 Mar 2016 14:24:38
Interesting points.
One thing about Ajax though, and I think Edgar Davids was talking about this last week, is that one of the primary reasons -- especially in the early 90s -- for their commitment to youth development was their tactics/ style of play.
Their 433, at the time quite an outlandish style, was taught through all the age groups and they were bringing in ready made players for that system. Davids commented on how difficult, especially then, it was to buy someone who could play that system.
This is one of the things I think Ronny has changed. I believe we play the same formation at all levels and when youth players are given their chance, they should have no trouble slotting into the system/ style.
That neither defends/ attacks our current coaches, I just thought it was an interesting comparison to Ajax.
13 Mar 2016 14:44:51
Sounds like Ronnie is giving himself a ready made excuse for not playing youngsters, forget about bringing youngsters who are playing well into the team, the main thing is Ronnie must not lose his job, the pressure to win quote is a bit bizzare, every team has a pressure to win, i understand that when the teams not been playing that well all season and dropped points at this time of year become crucial, is just a reflection on how bad some of Ronnies selections have been through out the season, maybe he should have been introducing more youngsters earlier in the season.
13 Mar 2016 14:52:51
I'm sure the fans would have been really forgiving had that been the case.
Also, why is it so hard (for you) to remember his name is Ronny?
13 Mar 2016 15:25:54
I have been saying this for a while - I believe that RD will be at Celtic for a long time. I think the plan from PL is for the club to buy the best scottish talent or develop their own to then sell them on for big profits, if there was ever a time to do it then it is now when sevco aren't in the league and the pressure isn't as big. I also think that it is a good idea to be doing this at this time but we as fans need to know about it. I personally think that is why he has come out and spoken about it.
However the issue is that we still haven't really been doing it. I said on here a few weeks ago that Tierney only got his chance because izzy and mulgrew were out but he has taken it and is now first choice LB. I don't remember KT name being mentioned as a up and coming youngster ready to make the grade ( maybe he was but I don't recall) . How many other players do we have in the development squad that could also do this if given the chance? As fans we tend to give our own youngsters more of a chance than youngsters we buy from other clubs which is just human nature as they didn't have a transfer fee. If we had been getting the results and performances that we have had recently but with more of our 'own' young players in the team en I think we would be more forgiving than we have. I would love us to have a team of eleven scottish players winning titles, cups and doing it in europe and helping Scotland also improve as a national team. How far away are we for it now? Not too far I don't think?
Only in defence would we struggle to fill but for some reason Scotland don't seem to produce good CD any more!
Glad runny has come out and spoken about this and hopefully we will see more of our development squad given a chance in the first team towards the end of the season. Could we have a midfield five next year of brown, henderson, mcgregor Allan and christie? Or Armstrong, commons and GMS? Griff up front, KT at left back, would just need to have good CD, RB AND GK. Nae bother!
13 Mar 2016 15:33:13
Well for me i would think Celtic having a B team in the lower leagues would be better than bringing back the reserve league the same way Spanish team's do also one of the big problems in this country kids are not allowed to express themselves enough and big strong players are valued more than smaller more technically gifted players although times are changing slowly also someone was saying about Ajax's system but also the Barcelona system teaches the youngster's how to play their position in their formation early on and although I'm not a fan of the 4231 we use just now i do think it's a good idea to use the same formation right the way through the clubs system.
{Ed001's Note - how many youngsters are produced for the first team through having B teams in the league in Spain? It does not help them at all. Athletic Bilbao are the only team that has a working youth system in Spain, that is not because of a B team. It purely comes down to taking the bull by the horns, so to speak, and giving the youth products a chance to play in the first team.}
13 Mar 2016 15:44:30
ED001, Am I right in thinking that Bilbao's commitment/ reliance on youth was driven, in part, by their (official/ unofficial? ) focus on Basque players? Is that still the case?
{Ed001's Note - it is entirely driven by that, you are correct. They have a small pool of players to recruit from, so they have to concentrate of the best coaching they can possibly provide and developing from within.}
13 Mar 2016 17:40:57
There are very many reasons why it is difficult to bring through youngsters . MO'N said the demands for winning every game meant he near enough ignored the youth .
Sunderland football club get one player out of 250 that goes through their academy . On the other-hand Ulster. rugby who sign up youngsters solely from within the Province have a 75 % success rate from their arcademy . ( that means 75% play for Ireland at some level )
I think pitches like yesterday's weather conditions and standards of refereeing are all areas that make it difficult . Of course it is easier at smaller clubs like Partrick Ross County Hamilton where a few midfield injuries could well mean the manager has no option but to play youths . Maybe the league could organise special terms for young players who are loaned out, such as training with the lending club one day a week.
13 Mar 2016 17:48:52
ed i was not citing the Spanish teams because their record of producing players for their first team but more that i think the system in general could be beneficial to Celtic where youngster's get more first team football of a more competitive nature also Celtic can have more control over development rather than sending youth out on loan and also it could give more attractive opposition to the lower league team's.
{Ed001's Note - that was my point though, it does nothing to benefit the clubs that using the system. The players end up going elsewhere, not actually breaking through at the club itself. Loans are not the answer, nor is playing them in the lower leagues. The answer is to have the balls to pick them. Not many managers have and that is the issue.}
14 Mar 2016 18:34:00
The balls are usually manager or coaches at small clubs . Playing a couple of youngsters on 1st team and avoiding relegation will usually keep that balls in a job .
MO 'N and all Celtic managers since know the size of their balls won't count if SPL isn't won .