28 Nov 2015 09:57:54
Ed, you're a reasonable fella with a good insight. After all this disappointment among the fans and frustration with the first team and the management/coaching staff. What's your own honest opinion on the RD/JC/JK trio? Do you think they should go? And if so who would you bring in?
{Ed007's Note - I think Peter Lawwell, John Park and John Collins should leave and take a lot of the support with them. Then I'd bring back real supporters that aren't living in some form of fake entitlement. We got beat by Ajax, RD isn't the first CFC manager to have a poor season in Europe and the way things are going he won't be the last.
For years I took pelgers on here for saying the MINIMUM we should be expecting was 3rd in our CL group and drop down into the EL and that was when we had players like Wanyama, Hooper and people on here backed the manager. Now we have players like KT, Rogic, players from Dundee Utd and the Scottish second division and people are using poor European performances to slaughter the manager.
For one reason or another there has been elements in our support who wanted RD to fail from day one and I don't doubt they actually take pleasure from seeing us struggle as you can see from how quickly they're on here to let us know how they feel, finally a lot of CFC supporters are agreeing with the SMSM and jioning the witch hunt against our manager, perhaps if RD was Celtic minded the fans would have closed ranks to protect him, we usualy look after our own when the press atack them.
Look back to October 2011 when we were 3-0 down at half-time to Kilmarnock and see what was said on here about Neil Lennon, a manager the club trusted that much they tried to bring in Stuart Baxter or WGS as an 'advisor', and when that didn't happen John Park stepped up - the rest as they say is history.
Not one single person has put forward a name that would realistically even take the job never mind be an improvement.}
28 Nov 2015 12:13:42
I don't agree with your assessment about managers not wanting to manage the club. When the job becomes vacant and I hope it does soon we will be inundated.
{Ed007's Note - Like the last time when Lawwell couldn't talk Larsson into taking it? You're kidding yourself on mate, no experienced manager worth their salt are interested in the job, that was proven by the last two appointments.}
28 Nov 2015 12:13:47
I watched an interview a few years back with Brendan Rogers and he said he would walk over hot Coles to manage Celtic. If we are to change RD who I really like as a person then Brendan I believe would be a realistic option. Hail Hail
{Ed007's Note - Aw ffs- I give up. Brendan Rodgers?? A guy that never watched any Liverpool youth matches, who his board didn't trust on transfers and wasted umpteen young players careers by messing them about with broken promises. He alienated players, caused friction behind the scenes and should never be allowed to be interviewed live again he put his foot in his mouth that often.
Rodgers also said he would manage Real Madrid or Barca, that shows you how far up his own arse he is.}
28 Nov 2015 13:12:27
Spot on Ed.
Get rid of that lot and give RD a crack along with his own choice of people.
Im one who did not think he was up to the job then kindof changed my opinion when listening to others who made sense. I also let European results get me down and frustrated but, as I have said before, I've been following since 6 years of age and realistically will continue to.
Jeezo, we are top of league and still in the cups so I guess he has this part sorted so can't be all bad.
However, I was strongly against the appointment of JC and that has never changed. Time to clear out and let the manager manage/ Brendan? had a good run and Liverpool were desperate.
The change has to start at the top either in personnel or business plan.
{Ed007's Note - How many times have we had European football after Christmas since we went to Seville, 5 or 6 off the top of my head if we're lucky and one of them was last season?
Why did people accept finishing fourth in our last CL group stages with one win and 5 defeats out of 6 games, we scored 3 goals and conceded 14 finishing the group stages with 3 points.
And yet people were upset when the manger left - strange that isn't it?}
28 Nov 2015 13:37:57
Your on fire the day Ed lol, Up out the "wrang side" of the bed? Mrs never gave you a cuddle mate? Or you finally fed up with all of us ranting :-) ,
Seriously mate, RD should have got Chris McCart's job at the club for that he would have been outstanding IMO
You cannot argue mate surely from day one he has even LOOKED! out his depth he even admitted as much last year when he said the whole thing was overwhelming!
{Ed007's Note - I'm not at all surprised that he found it overwhelming but what's the problem with that, how many players have came and felt the same?}
28 Nov 2015 13:49:07
Ed. You said bring back real supporters, surely the fans that go to the matches are the true supporters whatever opinions they hold.
I don't think a supporter should be judged on their opinions, if someone goes to the matches but has a negative opinion of the manager, and puts money into the club, I think they are better fans than people who sit at home praising the manager but put nothing into the club.
You said in your piece that you would like to get rid of Lawwell, Park, and Collins, and I agree with you, but why is it okay to criticise these individuals but not the manager, in my opinion none of them are up to much.
I've never seen what is so special about Ronny, I'm not blaming him for having players sold, and he hasn't been backed in the transfer market, but in my opinion where he has been able to control things, he hasn't done a very good job. His tactics haven't been great in the bigger games, and the fitness of the team, which was supposed to be his speciality, doesn't look any better than any other team. It's nearly always our opponents who come strong late in a game and score late winners. For all our state of the art facilities we have at lennoxtown, even little Kilmarnock looked just as fit as we did last Saturday. If Ronny can't even get the things right that he can control and are supposed to be his strengths, then why should we suppose that he would get other things right, like buying players in the transfer market, he doesn't fill me with a lot of confidence.
I view Ronny as an employee of the club, the same as Lawwell, Park, and Collins, I don't agree that you can be a true supporter if you want these last three to leave the club, but if you suggest Ronny should go then you should never darken Celtic Park's doors again.
As I have said previously, Lawwell and the board appointed Ronny, if they are so bad at their jobs, then how did they get his appointment so right?, isn't it more likely they got this decision wrong as well? .
28 Nov 2015 14:08:09
"No experienced manager worth their salt are interested in the job, that was proven by the last two appointments". I know you are a fan of RDs philosophy of the game, but do you doubt his ability to install it in his current position. Would a DOF help? .
{Ed007's Note - I wouldn't mind a DOF coming in, the problem is Park is basically doing that job and he's not very good at it. Do you remember this story?
http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/13162032.Celtic_ponder_hiring_director_of_football_to_aid_manager/
28 Nov 2015 14:40:40
The problem is Ed, you don't expect IT from a manager maybe it relayed onto the pitch mate
I would like RD in the role above but I totally agree with you that they were not lining up for the post in the first place! and I don't think the new Celtic way would be queued out for a replacement if needed, I know your a fan of Keane and if you look at his quotes at the time about how cold PL was about taking the job / no give in the salary / his No.2 being hand picked for him (RD) / and not exactly welcoming more "take it or leave it"
As we established RD was around fifth choice!
A don't know if you know this but DD was at the Ladbrokes AGM this week in London ( so he was clearly around to come to OURS! ) And he tried to block the merger of them and another bookies he did his dinger mate about how the board was under performing / not hitting targets / behind the times, but does nothing for us cannot even be bothered to turn up FFS!
{Ed007's Note - I seen that about DD and Ladbrokes, it just shows again where his priorities actually lie and as you say his comments are very odd if you take them and apply them to CFC.}
28 Nov 2015 14:46:48
ED007 my position on Deila is crystal clear, I thought at the time, and nothing since has changed my mind, that Ronnie was not the man to take us forward.
But and I want to make this very clear, I DO NOT want to see my club fail just to prove a point. I cannot believe any genuine Celtic fan wants to see us lose games.
I am older than you and have lived through the great times, the not so great times under Barnes and Mowbray for instance, in my eyes Deila is on a par with them, he keeps talking a good game but rarely translates it on the pitch.
Under big Caesar, Martin, Strach and Lenny we had PASSION in the team, how many games did we win in the last 5 minutes, under Ronnie we are LOSING games in last 5 minutes. The same defensive mistakes crop up regularly, where is the evidence he is working to eradicate these. No Ronnie is a limp manager with no passion and the players, or some of them are not playing for him, yes blame these players also, but Delia cannot get the best from our team. He must go now.
{Ed007's Note - You can't deny there's fans taking pleasure in seeing the team struggle in Europe as it gives them ammunition for their constant attacks on the manager. You know who they are because you don't hear from them when things are going well and the team is winning.}
28 Nov 2015 14:53:35
True supporters are ones who go to the game they are the ones who put money into the team no the ones who sit at home really some fans work certain days and can't get up every week or don't have the money to she'll out to go to games yet still buy club merchandise is that not putting money into the club it's fans that think that they go to games there for their opinion is more valid than others that I can't stand and before you say anything I'm a season ticket holder can't make it every week but give my ticket to others who can
28 Nov 2015 15:46:34
I remember reading that and (forgive me) retweeting it. Knowing the shower that are in charge they'd have a arry realcrap type character lined up.
28 Nov 2015 16:41:21
Ed I take no pleasure in seeing Celtic beaten in Europe. The entire philosophy at the club is wrong. The selling strategy means we will always struggle. I would like Lawell to go and Parks. Now I also want Delia to go but that does not mean I take any pleasure in defeats in Europe. The football we play is poor most weeks even in the SPL. I am fed up hearing the same story from Ronnie after every European game and his promises of jam tomorrow is wearing thin. Does that make me less of a Celtic fan? In your opinion maybe but your opinion does not make it true. I have been watching them longer than you and will continue to follow them but the live in with RD is not for me.
{Ed007's Note - What's the length of time you've watched them got to do with anything, does that give you some kind of kudos in the #celticfamily?}
28 Nov 2015 16:47:26
I actually said people who sit at home and put nothing into the club.
The point I was trying to make (although probably not very well) was that fans have every right to an opinion, and that just because they don't rate Deila as a manager, doesn't make them any less of a supporter than fans who do.
I apologise if I caused any offence.
28 Nov 2015 16:59:20
Exactly Ed, Delighted that we follow each other's train of thought on DD
I remember NL having a pop at the non investment when he was still playing only to get a verbal backlash from DD
I think the DD no show is a total lack of respect considering it is supposed to be "much more than an investment it's emotional"!
And another thing what happened to the decent signing we used to get tied up Bosman at this time of the year (ish) ? Under RD that has tried up too that is surely a lack of insight / forward planning? Surely JP's "workload" cannot be that big that this channel is ignored mate?
28 Nov 2015 17:27:24
Ed the point is this. In your book it's ok to critisise Parks, Collins or Lewell and we are still Celtic supporters. But if we critisise RD we want him and the club to fail so we can make a point? You are way off the mark. In my opinion he has done nothing out of the ordinary at Celtic.
{Ed007's Note - Nah, you've lost me now.}
28 Nov 2015 18:02:15
Sorry gerryc must have picked it up wrong
28 Nov 2015 18:22:29
Ed I agree with almost everything u posted in your longer post . I believe we are all supporters of Celtic but some of us have different understanding of what supporters should do. On Thursday I wasn't able to attend and had to listen to Sutton .
In the second half when GMS tried to flick ball into space, the groan and roar of hate certainly was a lot different from when Larrson tried and failed to do the same . Opponents now know that if they can keep Celtic scoreless for 10/15 mins the fans will turn against the players . Fortress Celtic Park is gone and not necessary players fault .
We have been in worse positions before, I thought on Thursday night we showed signs that we have the makings of an European team, we have something to build on.
{Ed007's Note - We need players to cut out stupid mistakes, can you imagine the uproar if Ambrose made the blunder Allan did? That was a prime example of a player not yet up to playing at European level never mind the SPL, it'll take time for him and others to improve. We have players like Mulgrew, Commons, Stokes and Gordon who can't or won't improve but it's obvious that all the players that have bought into RD's ideas have improved, Griffiths, Bitton, Rogic and I don't doubt Allan will in time. Tierney has shown every single young player at CFC that if they work hard enough and do what the manager tells them then they'll improve and get a chance.
People also seem to forget we're playing with a brand new defence that has been chopped and changed because of injuries and loss of form.
Another narrow unlucky defeat by Ajax, caused again by individual errors, and with a makeshift team isn't the end of the world, there was a lot of positives to take from it, Tierney's performance, Simunovic completing 90 mins beside Boyata, McGregor showing that he's still there and can do a good job when needed, even Forrest has found a bit of form although his shooting and crossing are still far too inconsistent and Armstrong gave probably his best performance in the Hoops in a long time.
I just don't see how changing manager at this point in time benefits anyone so let's wait until the summer and see where we are, one thing's for certain though, any manager coming in would face the exact same problems.
The annoying thing is that some supporters would have accepted the same group and the same results as long as it was in their wonderful CL, others see the bigger picture.}
28 Nov 2015 20:51:06
Ed I agree with you about Thursday night, I actually thought given the injuries we did okay against Ajax.
I think though that the future is pretty bleak in the sense that the youngsters you mentioned won't be the future, if they do cut out the mistakes and become good players, they will be sold, their new clubs will benefit from the work that we put into them, then we are back to square one with a different set of youngsters who will be making the same mistakes as the current crop are.
From my point of view, I dislike the Champions league as much as you do, the greed and self interest involved in it is a right turn off, I don't even watch it.
The thing is though, that I can't see how we can break the cycle we are in unless we have the money from the Champions League, I know it sounds hypocritical saying that, but in modern day Football you have a far better chance of bringing in better quality players, or even keeping some of the talented youngsters if you are in the Champions League, whether we like it or not, it's a big attraction for players.
You mention the bigger picture, but the road we are going down just means that we have to sit and watch promising youngsters making all their mistakes playing for us, then when they become good they are sold, and we start the whole cycle again, I just want us to aim a bit higher than that.
{Ed007's Note - Selling players on is hardly RD's fault is it, Gerry? When has CFC ever splashed the CL money on the squad and what makes anyone think it would be any different? If we had qualified for the CL it would still have been Simunovic, it would still have been Ciftci and it would still have been Scott Allan.
PL and CFC are pi55ing off club's and players all over Europe buy holding talks and stalling on deal when it comes to the crunch, there's players left waiting on phone calls that never come, clubs left hanging after accepting offers etc, it's a joke and the only way out of it is change further up the ladder than than the manager/coach. An ex-player who hasn't long left the club advised a young player against even talking to John Park during the summer, why do you think that was?}
28 Nov 2015 21:20:33
who was the ex player Ed and who was the young player, can you tell us?
{Ed007's Note - I'd rather not, Jamie but the player left before RD was appointed.}
28 Nov 2015 21:48:05
Fair enough Ed, hope you don't mind me being direct and asking (y)
{Ed007's Note - Of course not mate.}
28 Nov 2015 21:56:40
I don't blame Deila for having the players sold from under him, but somehow he has to try and get us into the Champions League with the players he has, and from what I've seen from him up till now I'm not convinced by him.
I genuinely hope you are proved right and I am proved wrong, I'm certainly not wanting Celtic to lose matches just so I can come on here to have a go at Ronny, or to say I told you so, Celtic means too much to me for that.
Lawwell, Park, and all the rest of them are dragging the club down, and I wish they could be removed although I haven't a clue how it could be done, but I think Ronny has fallen short in some key areas which are not all down to lack of funds.
When the same mistakes keep happening time after time, you have to wonder if he is capable of correcting them.
{Ed007's Note - That's why we should wait until the end of the season. Do you think we'd have had a better chance of CL qualification if Simunovic was brought in to play alongside VVD in them? I suspect that RD thinks the same.}