08 Nov 2015 21:30:46
This debate that Ronny's first 24 European games is no worse than O'Neils, Strachans and Lennons record is rubbish. Ronny's opposition he's had to face is no where near the standard that O'Neil and Strachan and to a lesser extent Lennon had to face. O'Neil lost only 3 home ties in Europe against Bordeaux AET, Ajax but went through on aggregate and Barcelona, he took the scalps of Barca, Juventus, Porto, Celta Vigo, Stuttgart, Lyon, Anderlecht, Valencia and AC Milan to name a few. Strachans record of only losing once at the Fortress in all his European ties was phenomenal and that was against Barcelona narrowly 3-2 in last 16 of CL. Lennon only lost 4 home Euro ties once in Europa league to Athletico Madrid and 3 times in CL to Barca, AC Milan and Juventus. Comparing Ronny's abysmal record to this is nonsense, in his 16 months in charge we have already suffered home defeats to the footballing giants Legia, Maribor, Malmo and the mighty Molde.
08 Nov 2015 22:11:23
Totally agree Stevie! There's no way in hell u can compare MON WGS and to a lesser extent Lenny to the garbage ronnies served up in Europe! Those tryin to compare are clutching at straws! And need to wake up and see what's in front of them!
08 Nov 2015 23:28:24
Spot on Stevie. Its not just numbers its about the quality of the opposition.
Good observation and made me think a bit.
08 Nov 2015 23:41:52
I agree with you but tbf don't think Legia can be counted as it was played at Murrayfield, although didn't we win that 3-0? :)
Malmo didn't beat us at home we won that 3-2.
Maribor, Salzburg and Molde have all beaten us at home and that is pretty embarassing. Pretty confident we would have seen them all off under Lenny.
08 Nov 2015 23:46:12
Think you've got the score wrong at murrayfield.
09 Nov 2015 00:00:44
aindoh mate it was a joke I know we lost 2-0 but we got awarded a 3-0 after there technical error or whatever their player registration issue was, similar away against Sion when we got awarded a 3-0.
09 Nov 2015 00:02:04
Youre right we did beat Malmo at home not that it helped and technically we did beat Legia 3-0 lol, but the point I'm trying to make is out of WGS first 24 European games in charge 20 of them were in the CL proper against quality opposition.
09 Nov 2015 00:27:05
Stevie mate completely agree with you. Ronny's European record cannot be compared with Lenny's, WGS's or MO'Ns.
{Ed007's Note - In Lennon's first attempt at Europe he failed in both the CL and EL qualifiers meaning no European football at all, the following season he failed in the CL qualifiers and made the EL Group Stages. Ronny Deila took us further in Europe in his first season than NL did in his first two seasons.
So explain to me why can't we compare those two records?}
09 Nov 2015 00:50:25
I recall us getting annihalated off Bratislava under Strachan and as a result failing to make group stages.
09 Nov 2015 01:18:47
Rab Mac I also recall strachan getting us to the last 16 twice in the CL! And being a dodgy penalty call at the San Siro away from the quarters! Comparing MON and strachans record with what Ronnies done is laughable! Yes u could hold lennons record up to a degree! But I don't recall any of them going 9 games in a row in the EL without a win! Bottom line is that his record is shocking! It's as simple as that! We're the laughin stock of Europe! MON strachan and Lenny had made Celtic park a place to be feared in the the CL! Now even middle of the road EL teams are rubbing there hands about getting us in Europe!
09 Nov 2015 02:15:57
Ronny's European record can't be compared imo with Lennys because you have to look beyond the outcomes of the first two seasons in Europe and more the circumstances. Lenny had a huge job on his hands trying to overhaul the squad in the mess Strachan/Mowbray had left behind, this coincided with having to take on Braga who were seasoned campaigners in the CL Group Stages back then and a much tougher outfit to face than Malmo, Legia and Maribor. This was Lenny's first crack at CL qualification and as we finished 2nd the previous season it was a tougher route towards CL qualification. In Lenny's second crack at the CL qualifiers after winning the league we made the CL Groups and then again after for the 2nd year in a row.
Lenny left Ronny a decent squad of players the majority of which are still being used, they had qualified two years on the spin and ran away with the titles, yet Ronny failed to get past sides of a similar standard to the ones Lenny defeated in Helsingborgs, Elfsborg, HJK and Karagandy.
{Ed007's Note - What about Sion?}
09 Nov 2015 07:59:53
Until Ronnie has a defensive clear out and replaces them with the, non useless can't variety, then he is heading fir the exit. And it's his own fault.
A dug in the street could tell him that.
I just passed one and he told me that.
09 Nov 2015 16:26:13
In all fairness the comparisons are difficult because of many factors like managerial experience, cash spent, quality of our squad and calibre of opposition etc.
MON did have the best team and transfer budget and got us to Seville - but we did have a very poor CL away record.
WGS had a transition of players, budget cuts and like MON had a strong Rangers to compete with.
Strachan attracted some very good players and made the last 16 of the CL twice but had some poor away results and the Bratislava nightmare.
NL had very little experience and had some ups and downs with a young team full of potential. The victory against Barcelona and comeback against Karagandy stand out but the six goal hammering by Barcelona and no European football in his last term were low points.
RD has had no serious rival in the SPL since day one and has really struggled in most of his European games although performances against Inter, Ajax and Fenerbace to name a few have been good in patches and spoiled by basic errors and poor decisions.
09 Nov 2015 18:06:56
Stevie u may be right about the standard of opposition of some of the teams MO'N team met. At the same time there is one hell of a difference in the quality of the players in his team . For example at that time Celtic could match the wages of the mid to top half teams in the major leagues in Europe including EPL .
Now we match wages of the mid team of the second division or championship teams. I can never remember such uproar about European performances in the past. At one time we hadn't got European football after Christmas for nearly 30 yrs and we survived and got stronger again .
09 Nov 2015 18:12:53
To be honest I don't care about MON or Lenny or Strachans record. You may as well bring jock stein into this. That's in the past I am looking at what is going to happen against Ajax and Fernabache. I think we will get 1 point. So we are out. This making a case that Ronnie is no worse than other manager is wSte of time. He is not delivering today. Team are too easy to play against in Europe. As soon as we make the step up we are found out every time. The team has no fight, don't look as if they can last more than 60 mins, can't defend a set piece, don't look as though they know where they should be on the pitch. It's chaos and they don't look as if they enjoy the European nights. Where has the fight gone? So don't compare just replace.
09 Nov 2015 18:22:13
So easy to replace and maybe get worse .
09 Nov 2015 19:34:12
I agree oldbhoy that MON's budget gave him an advantage compared with recent years and he also had the benefit of Larsson,but WGS worked wonders he had a pick of the likes of Telfer Wilson McManus Caldwell and Naylor to play at the back, hardly superstars but he had them well drilled and were pretty solid at the highest level. The poster who mentioned Strachans team was annihilated by Artmedia the aggregate score was 5-4 hardly annihilated.