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20 Sep 2014 18:01:05
Apologies. Having read through my post I see I have misquoted. I of course should have used gut instinct not reaction. I think they are interchangeable as terms. Happy to hear anyone elses thoughts.
20 Sep 2014 16:32:46
After some thought to answer to your scurrilous implied accusations please note.
My basic issue is that you offer and have avoided offering any explanation of the reasons and logic behind your statements i.e. dislikes of Alex Salmond except to qualify it with lots of people dislike him and second due to not ever having met him you rely on gut reaction. You put a lot of faith in your gut and you see this emotional judgment to be appropriate. This is a man’s character we are discussing politician or not and it is reasonable to ask for more information as to why you have this opinion. You have a very broad approach and seem to be very free in coming to judgement about the character of men. Where do you get such wisdom? How can you ascertain so much so quickly and without error. You appear to be an intellectual heavyweight.
Your comment about his personal Glory you also side stepped and ignored. When it comes to ruining the country I offered a number of reasons both personal and through many years of observation which supported evidence that the country was ruined both in the past and at the moment. Your reply was to dismiss this as a “ rant.†Was this ego on your part? By reply you made a judgmental statement pegged onto a contemptuous question in which in your opinion and the evidence supported in the rant (as you put it) meant I now had to defend myself against your thoughts. Those being that I hated everybody and everything. Now you may perceive my general reply in whatever way you wish but please base it on evidence and logic. I am just glad I was not accused of a hate crime, many are you know, for just expressing the truth.
I at first chose not to respond as it was a ridiculous assertion. You then basically demanded an answer, once received you again had a go at my character, is this how you debate things when someone says something you don’t like, attack with puerile personalisation. Did you expect me to crawl under a rock? I will leave that to the Unionists. You got a first answer and you did not like it, again maybe someone’s ego was under scrutiny here but it was not mine. Then after demanding an answer to your post and getting it I am subject to further personalised comments which to be perfectly honest are out of line. You also talk about which way you voted. I did not mention this. It is called muddying the waters and I am well capable of dealing with untruths in a discussion. FYI I am pro Scottish Independence and freedom. You appear based upon evidence at 4 at least, to support the anti-Scottish Independents. See your post at 4. I may be wrong but common sense would indicate that as you expect the country to go to ruin etc. under Salmond, then it follows you would vote against independence or abstain. To then start a disingenuous debate on what I said and you said and how you voted is churlish to say the least.
Your assertion of my thoughts as a superior intellect is also ridiculous. Personalisation is not wise but you go there again. What if I truly have a superior intellect? Why is that a bad thing? Intellect by nature is assertive. In any case I was pointing out that in the past there was no streamlining. To clarify further, most guys of my background and class had their education ruined by militant teachers and poor organisation. Try learning about Julius Caesar when half the class does not want to learn and many others have poor reading skills. Does that make me superior? It’s an interesting take and can I suggest some inverted snobbery in your statements regarding this.
You have avoided properly answering the question; you have bandied powerful words like hate, truth glory and virtue without in my opinion knowing the true nature of these words. You have answered in an imperious manner when confronted with the truth and your post made it very clear that my rant as you like to describe it, you saw as an attack on you. It was not a personal attack. It was meant to provoke thought. I think it has. On that level I have been successful.
In closing please look at Boethius, A Roman who was more Pauline than Christian. He was a philosopher and had a great intellect; don’t dislike him for having an intellect. The Romans disliked him. He spoke the truth, without him the enlightenment which gave us incredible Scots like Hume and eventually led to the great American Revolution without which we would all still be serfs. He gave us the knowledge of the Greeks Plato etc. Please also look at Neoplatonism. Many people have been martyred for having such views.
I am saying all this for one reason. When involved in lively debate do not facelessly accuse another man or woman by attempting to decry their character. Justifying opinions and attempting character assassinations by relying on insults or gut reaction is highly flawed. It is pointless and comes from ignorance. It leads ultimately to mob rule, censorship, selective law enforcement, state control and eventual slavery. For example my gut reaction may say the earth is flat, mathematics and physics says otherwise. My gut reaction may be (as I have never met them) a no voter is a traitor, the truth may be they are ignorant of the facts and are really patriots.
Boethius (it is reported after many years of imprisonment) was executed. They tied a rope around his head and tightened it until his eyes popped out. I am sure the Emperors gut reaction was kill the traitor!
I am no Boethius, just an ordinary guy who has no superior intellect. I just read a few books and have had some experience of governments. Many will think what has all this got to do with anything. DRB may think the same, but can I remind all that I did not bring up the subject of virtue and truth, glory lies and ruin, or even the SNP. DRB did. A last thought as the young Robespierre (Alex Salmond) is standing down.
“The secret of FREEDOM lies in educating the people whereas the secret of Tyranny is keeping them ignorantâ€. Maximilian Robespierre. French Revolutionary executed by the French state July 28 July 1794.
20 Sep 2014 13:12:04
It would appear to some the young Robospierre has fallen to the words of the elder Robospierre. " The king must die so the country may live" given the unkindness and emotional dislike of the man by many on this forum.
19 Sep 2014 19:06:56
A civil manner does not mean a civil question. It was highly personalised as well you know. However as Boethius said "There is no place for hatred in the minds of the wise". I would agree and tend to work very hard in my life and general dealings to assist people not to hate. You call my dialogue a rant. Please explain why you use that terminology; Is it to lower its meaning or devalue the truth in what I am saying? What is your concept of truth and virtue. I would be interested to know.
What is your basis for logic in your distrust or dislike of Salmond. You say your not against any form of govt that would help the people. Then you state you dislike distrust Salmond. What is it you distrust? Tell us all what he did that makes you appear to dislike him so much? Why do you equate independence with his personal glory and why is he as a person so much of a problem. You appear to dislike him so much, (you and the others you appear to be talking for) that you would be happy to pass up independence as that would deprive this man you dislike so much of personal glory and in any case he would ruin the country. You know it sounds like you actually hate the man.
I have an interest in truth. My many posts are about getting to the truth.
What is your motivation in posting? What are you trying to achieve?
Civil questions in a civil manner. I am looking forward to your response.
19 Sep 2014 16:59:47
TTT. Call it what you want to. Disagree by all means. For myself I said what I had to say and I am now keeping my own council. Good luck Scotland.