19 Sep 2014 07:15:07
55/45 - that's a margin that cannot be ignored.

45% of Scotland had rejected Westminster and I can guarantee there are a right good % in the No camp who only voted, not necessarily in favour of Westminster, but for fear of the unknown.

The way folk have engaged in this debate has been tremendeous and I hope we can build on this. Scotland is awake and better stay that way!

1.) 19 Sep 2014
Mrs E, I reakon the YES campaign will be happy. They wanted the 3rd? in the ballot, Stay in the Union with more Power, and that is exactly what they have aceived (no mean feat). The No parties have all made promises they must keep to avoid another Referendum in 3 years time. Hail Hail

2.) 19 Sep 2014
Quite encouraging to see so many young folk vote Yes and engaging in Politics – its been long overdue.

If Scotland do get a better deal for themselves this will be thanks to the Yes voters and being heard. I think Westminster will think long and hard about dumping Poll Tax here again and truly believe they are one bad decision away from losing Scotland. Bring it on!

3.) 19 Sep 2014
I am disappointed even though I had braced myself for this result and more than half expected it.
I am finding it hard to even speak to members of my family who voted 'No' through fear and trepidation with the bribery and threats used by the BTC; rather than sound political argument.
The turnout was magnificent, the margin of defeat was slim, but significant and there are a lot of very relieved people in Westminster.
At 58 I am now resigned to living out my life with a vote that counts for absolutely nowt in a UK election - just as it has been so many times.
Pensions, wages and benefits will all be fair game for the victors and the food banks will be here for many years to come - but at least we are part of the union (jack).
Scotland The Brave?. Aye Right!

4.) 19 Sep 2014
The biggest factor imo is peoples distrust/dislike of salmond, I don't believe a word that comes out the mans mouth, imo he would happily have lead us to ruin just for the glory of being the man who got us independance,

5.) 19 Sep 2014
19 Sep 2014 13:45:27
IMHO the country is in ruin. I had to put up with my education being ruined by teachers strikes and comprehensive education that put me into classes with guys who quite frankly should not have been in academic classes. There was no streamlining in those days.
The ruination of my late teen years and the destruction of many of the lives of my friends and peers through the explosion of drugs crime and the aids virus
The Ruination of my finances caused by cycle after cycle of boom and bust which has now turned into bust and bust!
The ruination of society by the I am alright jack and loadsamoney Thatcher years and the betrayal of common decency and values by the left
The ruin of ethical values and spirituality by officially corrupted religious organisations
The ruination of woman caused by the sexual exploitation derived from market forces.
The ruination of the family caused by the above and the false agendas of supposed equality.
The ruination of thought caused by the thought police and the politically correct oh so easily offended censorship agenda
The ruination of language caused by sms and other new media
The ruination of health especially childrens due to vaccines gender bending chemicals and the devoid of any nutrition ration packs they call food these days.
I won't say more. Oh aye that guy Salmond hell ruin the country right enough.

6.) 19 Sep 2014
DRB, Him and Sturgon (Spelling) just look like they cannot be trusted. I know that is very shallow but that is just the way it is. If Westminster revolk (is that a word) on any of the promises there will be another Referendum, there is nothing in place to say we can't, and the No Campaign will have lost before they can get started. Salmonds currency issue was a major stumbling block, for me anyway, and without a definate no too the Euro there was no way I could vote Yes. Hail Hail

7.) 19 Sep 2014
Completely disagree DRB. We know most politicians are only in it for personal gain, but I feel having a Scottish Government ruling our country, they'd be close enough for us to see the whites of their eyes n there's less places for them to hide!

8.) 19 Sep 2014
19 Sep 2014 14:47:57
There won't be another referendum or vote on Independence. Not now and probably never again. Salmond said not for a generation and Cameron said it this morning. So there's two very good reasons that blow many no voters logic of we will get them next time. There won't be a next time. But I can assure you like I know there will be a tomorrow. The establishment is coming. Look out Scotland. The Thatcher years will look like childs play by comparison.

9.) 19 Sep 2014
Hb, . its not a Scottish govt or independence i'm against or any form of govt that would help the people, i'm just pointing out an opinion I hold of salmond and that a lot of people I know both yes and no voters also hold/held, which I think affected the yes vote, welcome back hb I thought you had joined isis after the biton carry on, sopot in your rant you seem to hate everything and everybody, does this include the snp or are they the paragon of truth and virtue for you?

10.) 19 Sep 2014
Sopot, Talk about Scaremongering. I disagree, like the Tic, Onwards and Upwards. Hail Hail

11.) 19 Sep 2014
19 Sep 2014 16:51:51
DRB Your comment does not deserve nor warrant a reply.

12.) 19 Sep 2014
19 Sep 2014 16:59:47
TTT. Call it what you want to. Disagree by all means. For myself I said what I had to say and I am now keeping my own council. Good luck Scotland.

13.) 19 Sep 2014
I Can't understand people who distrust Salmond, and probably gave Gordon Brown a standing ovation for his 'inspirational' speech, now there is one guy I would'nt trust after he passed up the chance to punish the bankers instead of saving their bonus system., but I agree with you DRB, there is a lot of people who think like that about Salmond, the ones I know are west of Scotland tic supporting labour supporters, relatives of mine that I gave up trying to change their point of view long time before the refreendum.

14.) 19 Sep 2014
A question asked in a civil manner . why no answer?

15.) 19 Sep 2014
I know we have the argument it wasn’t a vote for SNP but it was all their ideas for an Independent Scotland that we heard, the other parties put nothing except doom and gloom forward so folk did get worried.

Salmond was not confident in dealing with the issues over currency and that for many was huge. Its alright saying folk were selfish in how they voted, of course they were. Most will do what’s best for their own family first and foremost, its quite naive to think otherwise.


What I do object to is some No voters saying we need to accept this vote and just get back to normal, aye you would like that. The reason this whole vote came about was almost half the nation are not happy with London rule and some who did vote No weren't that happy either but the fear of dear knows what was put into them.

16.) 19 Sep 2014
19 Sep 2014 19:06:56
A civil manner does not mean a civil question. It was highly personalised as well you know. However as Boethius said "There is no place for hatred in the minds of the wise". I would agree and tend to work very hard in my life and general dealings to assist people not to hate. You call my dialogue a rant. Please explain why you use that terminology; Is it to lower its meaning or devalue the truth in what I am saying? What is your concept of truth and virtue. I would be interested to know.
What is your basis for logic in your distrust or dislike of Salmond. You say your not against any form of govt that would help the people. Then you state you dislike distrust Salmond. What is it you distrust? Tell us all what he did that makes you appear to dislike him so much? Why do you equate independence with his personal glory and why is he as a person so much of a problem. You appear to dislike him so much, (you and the others you appear to be talking for) that you would be happy to pass up independence as that would deprive this man you dislike so much of personal glory and in any case he would ruin the country. You know it sounds like you actually hate the man.
I have an interest in truth. My many posts are about getting to the truth.
What is your motivation in posting? What are you trying to achieve?
Civil questions in a civil manner. I am looking forward to your response.

17.) 19 Sep 2014
Aindoh, I tried to reply earlier so there might be two replies, this is a shorter version, after what you said bout your family, I noticed during the whole process among friends co workers that no matter their usual political allegiences that catholics /celtic supporters where moving to yes voting and rangers/protestants towards no, was this a countrywide thing or just a inverclyde /glasgow thing, did anybody else think see this?

18.) 19 Sep 2014
DRB, I live in the east and most celtic supporters, and otherr people I know know were going to vote yes, that was why I was surprised when talking to the ones further west, they were coming out with this Salmond line, and after seeing the result, maybe I don't get out enough, or I'm mixing with the wrong crowd.

19.) 19 Sep 2014
I cannot believe any Celtic fan could have voted no.
Salmonde may not be everybody's cup of team but no matter how much bad he could inflict on the Scottish people
It would measure very low on any scale compared to English Tories.
55% of Scottish people should be ashamed of themselves .

20.) 19 Sep 2014
Sopot, you attack the left and right in your post and I wanted to know if you thought the snp where better and why,, this was personal as I was was addressing your post and it read like a rant to me,, on reading your reply I now don't care what your views on anything are as you sound an pretentious, arrogant, egotist, yes I dislike salmond and like millions of others in this world can only form an opinion through gut instinct as we will never meet the person we dislike in person, so don't try and paint me as some hate filled person, you say you don't hate others but you seem easily angered by others or maybe I just write like one of the people the education system put in your way to stife your superior intellect, also at no time did I say how I voted so how do you know i'm happy to pass up independence,

21.) 20 Sep 2014
20 Sep 2014 16:32:46
After some thought to answer to your scurrilous implied accusations please note.
My basic issue is that you offer and have avoided offering any explanation of the reasons and logic behind your statements i.e. dislikes of Alex Salmond except to qualify it with lots of people dislike him and second due to not ever having met him you rely on gut reaction. You put a lot of faith in your gut and you see this emotional judgment to be appropriate. This is a man’s character we are discussing politician or not and it is reasonable to ask for more information as to why you have this opinion. You have a very broad approach and seem to be very free in coming to judgement about the character of men. Where do you get such wisdom? How can you ascertain so much so quickly and without error. You appear to be an intellectual heavyweight.
Your comment about his personal Glory you also side stepped and ignored. When it comes to ruining the country I offered a number of reasons both personal and through many years of observation which supported evidence that the country was ruined both in the past and at the moment. Your reply was to dismiss this as a “ rant.” Was this ego on your part? By reply you made a judgmental statement pegged onto a contemptuous question in which in your opinion and the evidence supported in the rant (as you put it) meant I now had to defend myself against your thoughts. Those being that I hated everybody and everything. Now you may perceive my general reply in whatever way you wish but please base it on evidence and logic. I am just glad I was not accused of a hate crime, many are you know, for just expressing the truth.
I at first chose not to respond as it was a ridiculous assertion. You then basically demanded an answer, once received you again had a go at my character, is this how you debate things when someone says something you don’t like, attack with puerile personalisation. Did you expect me to crawl under a rock? I will leave that to the Unionists. You got a first answer and you did not like it, again maybe someone’s ego was under scrutiny here but it was not mine. Then after demanding an answer to your post and getting it I am subject to further personalised comments which to be perfectly honest are out of line. You also talk about which way you voted. I did not mention this. It is called muddying the waters and I am well capable of dealing with untruths in a discussion. FYI I am pro Scottish Independence and freedom. You appear based upon evidence at 4 at least, to support the anti-Scottish Independents. See your post at 4. I may be wrong but common sense would indicate that as you expect the country to go to ruin etc. under Salmond, then it follows you would vote against independence or abstain. To then start a disingenuous debate on what I said and you said and how you voted is churlish to say the least.
Your assertion of my thoughts as a superior intellect is also ridiculous. Personalisation is not wise but you go there again. What if I truly have a superior intellect? Why is that a bad thing? Intellect by nature is assertive. In any case I was pointing out that in the past there was no streamlining. To clarify further, most guys of my background and class had their education ruined by militant teachers and poor organisation. Try learning about Julius Caesar when half the class does not want to learn and many others have poor reading skills. Does that make me superior? It’s an interesting take and can I suggest some inverted snobbery in your statements regarding this.
You have avoided properly answering the question; you have bandied powerful words like hate, truth glory and virtue without in my opinion knowing the true nature of these words. You have answered in an imperious manner when confronted with the truth and your post made it very clear that my rant as you like to describe it, you saw as an attack on you. It was not a personal attack. It was meant to provoke thought. I think it has. On that level I have been successful.
In closing please look at Boethius, A Roman who was more Pauline than Christian. He was a philosopher and had a great intellect; don’t dislike him for having an intellect. The Romans disliked him. He spoke the truth, without him the enlightenment which gave us incredible Scots like Hume and eventually led to the great American Revolution without which we would all still be serfs. He gave us the knowledge of the Greeks Plato etc. Please also look at Neoplatonism. Many people have been martyred for having such views.
I am saying all this for one reason. When involved in lively debate do not facelessly accuse another man or woman by attempting to decry their character. Justifying opinions and attempting character assassinations by relying on insults or gut reaction is highly flawed. It is pointless and comes from ignorance. It leads ultimately to mob rule, censorship, selective law enforcement, state control and eventual slavery. For example my gut reaction may say the earth is flat, mathematics and physics says otherwise. My gut reaction may be (as I have never met them) a no voter is a traitor, the truth may be they are ignorant of the facts and are really patriots.
Boethius (it is reported after many years of imprisonment) was executed. They tied a rope around his head and tightened it until his eyes popped out. I am sure the Emperors gut reaction was kill the traitor!
I am no Boethius, just an ordinary guy who has no superior intellect. I just read a few books and have had some experience of governments. Many will think what has all this got to do with anything. DRB may think the same, but can I remind all that I did not bring up the subject of virtue and truth, glory lies and ruin, or even the SNP. DRB did. A last thought as the young Robespierre (Alex Salmond) is standing down.
“The secret of FREEDOM lies in educating the people whereas the secret of Tyranny is keeping them ignorant”. Maximilian Robespierre. French Revolutionary executed by the French state July 28 July 1794.

22.) 20 Sep 2014
20 Sep 2014 18:01:05
Apologies. Having read through my post I see I have misquoted. I of course should have used gut instinct not reaction. I think they are interchangeable as terms. Happy to hear anyone elses thoughts.