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APcelt's Posts and Other Poster's Replies To APcelt's Posts

 

 

To APcelt's last 5 banter posts

 

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APcelt's banter posts with other poster's replies to APcelt's banter posts

 

11 May 2021 12:06:06
Interested to read a post from yesterday's banter that stated, "the academy produces very few players who go on to being a first team pick". Does anyone else see that as a very serious problem that needs to be addressed immediately?

APcelt

1.) 11 May 2021 12:38:42
We have the structure, we have the facilities and the network of a huge club, but we don't seem to have a conveyor belt of outstanding young players that are 'first-team ready', like other massive clubs. Even when we bring in promising prospects from other teams, they never seem to make the breakthrough and many end up out the door. Obviously the demands and expectations for success may lead to fewer chances, but at the same time, over the last decade we have bought and taken in loans that have been well short of the quality required. That defies not only logic, but lowers the standard of 'Celtic Class' players and wastes money. Whatever restructuring takes place for next season, it's going to be a huge squad rebuilding exercise and imperative that the academy and first team work totally in tandem with the scouting network, for maximum efficiency and basic economic sense.


2.) 11 May 2021 13:38:40
the youngsters that are good enough are seeing that there pathway to the first team is limited so when the big boys from europe come in for them then its a no brainer for them to make that move.


3.) 11 May 2021 13:45:00
Agree OAB2 👍
This season alone we've lost young players to Bayern Munich and Man. City respectively therefore, someone within the scouting set up at these two clubs must have seen something in those players?
At the same time there's no guarantee these players will make the breakthrough especially at clubs the size of Munich and City who seem to stockpile young talent just to ensure no one else signs them.
I do think an overhaul is needed and also a clearly defined pathway to progress into the first team put in place or more young players will leave when they get the chance.


4.) 11 May 2021 14:47:45
Who has progressed to and held down a place in the team from the academy in the last 15 years?
KT 5 years ago.
McGreggor 7 years ago
Forrest 11 years ago.

That to me is utterly woeful. Something is wrong. The overwhelming majority get a few games, then are moved on and for most, not all, but most never reach a level that suggests we made a mistake in letting them go. We have to go back to Marshal nearly 20 years ago for a keeper. No right back, no striker. Producing a real class player every decade, with nothing inbetween of note, tells me it's not even close to working. For the last twenty years we hear of, this great prospect of 5hat but when they need to step up they are found to be nowhere near good enough. Howe, if he ever arrives needs to look at the stats and ask, why so few? Why can't we produce top class players regularly? It has got to the point where every single time I hear a great prospect inn the Academy, I say, heard it. We sign better from smaller clubs. This isn't even the the same universe as good enough. I've said it before, but we produce 9kayers for the Dundee's of this world and as long as that continues the Academy is failing. It needs a long hard look at and changes to improve the return. Welsh has come through, but if we want a really solid defence, he doesn't look good enough either imo. I hope he improves but he can't win a header at set pieces either. If anybody has anymore class players I missed please flag them up.


5.) 11 May 2021 15:09:25
Not like you to be negative magicpole lol.
We have had Hazard, Welsh, McGregor, Forrest, Johnston, Henderson play for us this season that came thro the ranks.
Thats 6 players, not too mention Montgomery, Dembelle, and Otto on the verge of stepping up.
There are not many big clubs across Europe who have this, only the smaller clubs bring thro youth regularly like Hamilton for eg simply because they have too.
So compare us to the comparable we are doing well.


6.) 11 May 2021 15:14:46
I'm with Magic pole, of the 6 you mention Rayman 4 are not good enough and the other 2 came through the youth system when the "Old Firm" still existed.


7.) 11 May 2021 15:54:43
chinks who are the ones not good enough from what im taking your meaning welsh Henderson Johnston and hazard. welsh is more than good enough and so is Henderson Henderson is a cracking player just does not get his chance Johnston is good just to injury prone and lightweight could maybe do with a season loan hazard is a decent keeper. from me Henderson and welsh definitely deserve a chance next season.


8.) 11 May 2021 16:11:01
As does Luca Connell.


9.) 11 May 2021 16:26:55
Not sure about hazard Johnstone far too slight and not sure he puts in the work Welsh imo is OK but too small for cb might be a decent rb Henderson again not sure he struggled for game time on loan at one club, Montgomery I haven't seen and Connel falls into that category it's OK doing well at qp but this is celtic, more questions than answers.


10.) 11 May 2021 17:29:44
The last time we rebuilt a side using many of our own 'youth' and nurtured players was probably 'The Quality Street Kids', way back when the Lisbon Lions was dispersing and that is ridiculous for a club of our size and resources. One or two every few years, shows we have went backwards in youth development and fast-tracking.


11.) 11 May 2021 18:47:30
From studies into academies, statistics show that less that 0.1% make it (that's less than 1 in 1000) . That's a high attrition rate, but you would expect our coaching staff to be aware of this, and, probably more importantly, so do senior management.

A good kid can not only save you a lot of money, but make you a lot of money in a subsequent transfer. Don't be fooled that a kid that is good enough will want to spend his career with Celtic, so transfers are inevitable.

So, you would hope that an appropriate level of investment is made. If our academy is not the best in Scotland, that should be the first objective. Then see where we go from there!


12.) 12 May 2021 09:14:41
Hazard isn't good enough, Welsh, imo, not good enough if we want a defence worthy of that name, Henderson and Johnston too slight to hold down a jersey. I suppose it depends on how good you want us to be, none of them at four woukd get a game apart from subs. And if they did, we woukd never progress to be able to either qualify for the CL, never mind not get horsed in it if we did. Its not be8ng negative, it's just not being sentimental and giving players a bye because they came from the Academy. The academy is broken and has been for years. Forrest, McGreggor and KT in over ten years. That's it. And that just isn't good enough.


13.) 12 May 2021 12:58:43
The colts team will be a big help but can they get promotion?


14.) 12 May 2021 16:00:01
It will help, but if the class isn't there, it isn't there regardless of games. Our recruitment at every level is awful. You have more chance getting into our team if you start at a smaller club. We miss these players and the place us bursting at the seams with players who aren't good enough. Stop signing them. Sign fewer who have a chance.


 

 

04 May 2021 13:37:50
I'm new to this forum, but have been reading it for a long while. Frankly, I'm not surprised by most of the comments after such a defeat, it's normal. However, I do get annoyed when we turn on ourselves!

If there are Sevconians viewing this site, they are laughing their asses off now, and we've only ourselves to blame.

We lost TIAR in the summer of 2012. Think what happened then and what we did/ didn't do, and you'll find the answer.

Earlier, someone said the league was gone in January and stopped watching. Fair comment, as I also realised this in January, January 2020, not January 2021. Didn't you all see it? After we somehow won the League Cup in the December, we knew we were poor, outplayed, etc., so you expected a positive reaction at the New Year game. What we got was a continuation of the League Cup final.

It's down to coaching, modern day coaching. They've been coached, and have progressed accordingly. Does it look as though we've been coached? We have two central defenders running into each other!

When Duffy arrived, everyone said, "this is what we need". He came from a well drilled defense, and his CV did not say, "careful, this guy's useless! ". He came into a team that appears to be undrilled, and if that's so, what do you expect!

We don't need to waste money (any more money) on players, we need to invest in coaches, kids, and lots of them. We need to find a way, a Celtic way, of playing. One that's effective in Scotland, and transfers to Europe. We start with 8 to 10 year olds and go forward from there!

You never, ever, build a team round one player, never! What do you do if they get injured? Unless, of course, if that player happens to be Diego Maradona, but I don't see any Diego's at Celtic Park!

Look at other teams/ coaches, and learn/ adapt. Look at Guardiola, Klopp, etc. Look at Barca, Ajax, and see how they operate. We should have at least half our squad home grown, more than half. We should be prepared, ready to sell on our best players, as that is the way it is. Accept it! We need lots of kids, hundreds, because the percentage of those that make it is small, so you must give yourself the best chance. Invest in kids, and if it's not working, invest more.

Then maybe, just maybe, we can produce a team that can do something, even if only for a year or two. I can dream, but not with the current set up!

APcelt

 

 

 

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16 Oct 2021 00:37:36
Hugo, I agree with what you are saying. Playing highly aggressive football means getting about the opposition, reducing their time, but in trying to win the ball back instead of waiting for a mistake can lead to what you refer to as "silly" or "niggly" fouls. However, as you say, winning the ball back cleanly requires quality.

How is the fouls to bookings ratio. That would indicate the type of fouls we are giving away, and also indicate where the fouls are given away. A player giving away a niggly foul is more likely going to get booked if a team is attacking you than they would if the foul is committed high up the park.

Moreover, in looking at where the fouls are committed on the pitch is an indication of the situation when the foul is committed. High up the pitch, and this indicates you've lost the ball and are trying to win it back. Around your own area paints a different picture.

If Celtic are giving away fouls, you cannot blame the referee for that if your only evidence is that we are conceding more fouls than the opposition.

Also, what is the individual player foul count. If a player continually gives away niggly fouls, then you must ask if the style of play suits the player. If the objective is to win the ball back, but a player is continually penalised, then they cannot be doing it right. So, should they be in the team?

To play a highly aggressive, high pressing game you need players that can adapt to this style of play. If players cannot, replace them with players who can. That is the nature of the game, you are either good enough or your not!

APcelt

 

 

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14 Oct 2021 00:08:34
Jonbhoy, fully agree with the latter part of what you said. If what he said was true, he shouldn't have said anything and kept it in-house. He should have been man enough to take the defeat and shoulder responsibility. He was the Celtic Manager for christ's sake, he should have at least acted with dignity, which to me means accepting responsibility.
To me he lost the dressing room, and maybe never had the dressing room entirely with him from the start of his second term.
He should never have got the job in the first place. Too angry, too temperamental, and not much of a coach. His overall managerial record verifies that.
It is in the past now, and has been since the start of the year. Lennon should be acting in a dignified manner, not playing a blame game. He should be careful about naming players though, because they could open up themselves. Where would that get us, and for what?
Lennon should shut up, and say nothing at all. If directly asked a question, he shouldn't feed the media parasites, but either say nothing or respond "No Comment! ".

APcelt

 

 

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01 Oct 2021 22:15:47
Ange must work with what he's got until the January window. From now until then, he should be able to see what he's got and assess. I've no doubt he'll identify players we have that don't fit, and then maybe bring others in. The aim is to stabilize in January, and that's the core for the qualifiers. No panic buys!

Next summer, we have to see what we want, and what's available in our price range. Also, we have to consider kids coming through, which should be the real aim.

Remember, not all the players we bring in will fit the system Ange is trying to develop. That's normal, as it happened many times before, and not just with us. Hopefully, Ange can identify what will fit before we buy a player.

We'd all like instant success, but to build a team, especially from the shambles Ange inherited, generally always takes time. More so, given that Ange is introducing a new style. That always takes time, and we must be patient. Hard I know, especially after a loss!

We've had a bumpy ride so far, and this could be the story of our season, but I feel upbeat! Let's see where we are next May.

APcelt

 

 

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01 Oct 2021 23:01:28
I expected that of Rogic. He's got more experience, and doesn't venture into the opposition penalty area to much, but is around it and generally available. What I like in a midfield player in offensive mode.

However, I get the feeling he thinks he's Pirlo, but the difference is Pirlo had players constantly rotating around him, working their socks off. For a player like Rogic, he needs that, because defensively he's a passenger. Not alert enough!

McGregor's positioning seems good, but he needs to work on his awareness, his game management. Broonie was the same, as he never seemed to pick up opposition midfielders running by him into space (look at videos, and you'll see) . Always tried to cover another defender, instead of covering the space, especially behind him.

I'm not worried about Broonie and Ferguson on Sunday, and neither should our team. The problem is, will they!

APcelt

 

 

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01 Oct 2021 21:58:32
That's interesting! I've no problem with a midfielder getting forward, but his primary job is the midfield. He has to learn when to go forward, and when to stay/ hold. It's really down to practice and experience, but first this must be pointed out to him, and then we'll see if he's a quick learner.

I've noticed that when he loses the ball he goes chasing it, only to get in others way and not be aware of what's around him. You could put it down to youthful enthusiasm, so he needs good coaching. Hopefully, he'll learn!

In the heat map, how did he compare to Rogic and McGregor?

APcelt