03 May 2021 12:58:36
Here is something that has not been considered, as far as I am aware.
However, for next season I would like to sign a top class, existing referee or high profile ex referee who is high up at UEFA or their own countries FA. The more connections they have the better.
The job of this referee would be to analyse each Celtic and Rangers match and look for incidents were the referee has failed to give the correct decision. They would then write to the SFA on behalf of our club and demand to know why the wrong decision was made and what action was being taken against the referee.
On top of that they would also add the data to a database, which would build a factfile on each referee and we would start to see a pattern, of that I have no doubt.
On top of that they would also be able to teach our players the laws of the game as I don't think most of them know based on the crap you hear pundits spout.
If the SFA and refs want to go on strike because of the scrutiny, then I say let them and we get outside refs in.
I know this would be an added expense but it would be money well spent if you ask me.
03 May 2021 13:25:34
good shout mate.
03 May 2021 13:27:22
If we paid them then nobody but us would question it hh.
03 May 2021 13:31:39
Naw get what your saying but the ref didn't beat us yesterday or the last 5 games against them. we did it all by ourselves, we are rotten end of.
03 May 2021 13:33:57
We would have no refs left. The refs in our country and no better or worse than anywhere else in europe.
We would be better helping them but introducing VAR or testing out Full Time refs.
03 May 2021 13:44:32
NAW, I think it's a great shout and I doubt would cost that much in the grand scheme of things as it would be on a part time/ consultancy basis.
Dermot Gallagher does the 'referee punditry' part on MOTD and someone who has worked at that level would be ideal for the role and far more qualified than the monkey's in our league.
I'd urge the board to ensure such a role was well publicised to put the shi@s right up the SFA and Referee's association.
Whether it would drastically change anything I'm not so sure but it would be worth seeing their reaction 😆.
03 May 2021 13:52:05
I think we have to ask ourselves these two questions.
1. Do you think the refereeing is at a sufficient standard? If not then we need to highlight it and start working to improve it.
2. Do you think there is a bias within refereeing? If so you need to show a pattern and find out who is involved.
What I am suggesting would hopefully improve the standard and reduce the bias.
03 May 2021 13:55:55
To my knowledge mate, no other country in the world does what your suggesting although I could be completely wrong. Referees aren’t flawless, they’re human therefor your always going to get mistakes. I refuse to believe referees deliberately give wrong decisions. That’s a dangerous path to go down if we truly believe that. Now that game yesterday, are we seriously going to believe the ref deliberately gave mcgregor the second yellow followed by a red? Now if it’s proved the ref acted wrongly I’m sure it’ll be highlighted, in fact I’d have thought if it was the case Celtic would’ve challenged it by now. Rangers have won this league by a country mile, we simply haven’t been good enough this season it’s that simple. We’ve won everything domestically the past 4 years, won 9 league titles in a row with cup success during that time, and the first season we win nothing we’re looking at something as dramatic as u suggest or look for reasons to fault others when our biggest fault has been within our own club.
03 May 2021 14:01:58
The referees are all rubbishing it from Gerrard this season and they've got away with murder. So we should do something to try counter that ourselves.
03 May 2021 14:32:16
Paying referee's, REALY.
03 May 2021 14:38:14
Anyone got Collina's number?
03 May 2021 14:50:47
@Garryc1977 - Let us forget yesterday's game as my comments don't relate to that specifically, they are far more general.
It is widely known that a large percentage of referees are Rangers fans, as ex-refs have spoken out about it. Now you would expect that, as they are one of the best supported clubs in the country. However, you would expect a similar amount to be Celtic fans, which is clearly not the case. So you start wondering why is this the case?
Now that in itself does not prove anything. However, in psychology there is a well known and proven phenomena known as in-group bias. This is when a member of a group acts favourably towards their own group and this can happen both consciously and sub-consciously. For that reason alone you should not have a supporter of a team, officiating a game involving their own team or a game involving their rivals.
Now add to that John Beaton's performance a couple of season ago, where he allowed Morelos to kick Brown in the nuts, rake his studs down Ralston's back and grab Christie by the nuts and didn't take any action (a prime example of in-group bias in action) . There was no retrospective action taken against Morelos because the ref said he saw all the incidents. While this is pretty dubious, you then have the same referee in a well known Rangers pub after the match and celebrating.
Then you have Hugh Dallas, the head of the referees at the time, sending anti-catholic emails to his colleagues. Yes he was sacked but, it shows that there is anti-catholic sentiment at the heart of the referee association as he obviously felt safe enough among peers to send these vile emails and felt they would be welcomed.
I could go on and on but I reckon you get the drift and why I am suggesting what I did.
03 May 2021 14:53:22
Garry1977 really, do you honestly believe referees in Scotland don’t deliberately give wrong decisions. Let’s start with Dougie McDonald in a match at Ibrox were Boughera was booked inside the first ten minutes and continued to commit worse fouls than the one he was booked for and was warned after each one, I’m sure you will remember the match at Tannadice where he changed his mind on a penalty award to Celtic and hung the linesman out to dry who later resigned as a result of it followed by McDonald more or less being sacked or Beaton were he allowed Morelos to assault Celtic players for the entire match. This season countless stonewall penalties denied in matches against Rangers, shocking tackles by Rangers players which went unpunished only for retrospective bans to be issued. I could go on all day regarding honest mistakes by Scotland’s finest and by their bosses. Celtic have challenged decisions against them only to be told let it go by the blazers the same blazers who thought it was okay for Dallas to send inappropriate crap about the Pope on the internet . You are correct regarding yesterday’s result we are not good enough but please don’t try and tell me and countless other Celtic fans referees don't deliberately influence games.
03 May 2021 14:55:26
Pedro, you mention dermot Gallagher, he’s quoted today as saying the ref yesterday was right in his actions and how McGregors red card came about. being no an ex referee, working on the punditry side of the game from a refs point of view down south, I’d imagine he would know the rules of the game regarding yesterday’s incident. I just want Celtic to concentrate in getting the most important thing sorted and that’s getting the DOF and new management team in the door and sort this mess out.
03 May 2021 15:03:54
There was also Bobby Tate, who was a self-confessed Rangers fan. When he was coming to the end of his career he requested that he was allowed to ref the last Rangers home game of the season (they were going for 10 in a row that year and needed a victory to stay in the race) .
Low and behold he gets given the match. After 90 minutes the teams were tied, so Tate decides he is going to play 6 minutes of injury time. Luckily for us this blew up in his face as Kilmarnock scored and his team got beaten.
Then in 1986 Hearts were on course for the league but near the end they started to falter and Celtic started gaining ground. The last games of the season were Hearts v Dundee and St Mirren v Celtic. The refs were already decided for each match. However, for no reason they changed the ref to the Hearts v Dundee game at the last minute. The new ref was a well known Jambo.
Why were these decisions made and who was involved in making them?
Just remember, the term conspiracy theory is often used to try and avoid institutional analysis, which is very true on this subject.
03 May 2021 15:08:34
It’s my opinion oldkilly. I’d rather look at our own failings than look at fault elsewhere. If we get a team capable of producing, just like we did up until this season, we’ll be successful regardless of these†bias “ referees. I personally feel the first thing the club should be doing is look at what’s going on in house, get that sorted and we’ve proven we can be unstoppable. Would we be sitting here today debating refs had we gone on to win the 10 in a row. Right now I’ve no interest other than our club getting their fingers out their ass and get the shambles this seasons turned into sorted.
03 May 2021 15:11:17
@Gerryc1977 - Dermot Gallagher obviously does not know the rule change as it was only introduced this season.
I read what Gallagher said and he obviously does not know the rule or he would know that it cannot be a yellow card as that option is gone as soon as the ref plays advantage. If it had been a red card offense, then it would still have been a sending off as the red card gets reduced to a yellow and McGregor was on a yellow.
However, the ref told Kennedy that he booked McGregor for making a reckless challenge, which is a yellow card offense. If he booked him for a red card offense the tackle would have been using "excessive force". If you read the laws of the game from IFAB, the term reckless and excessive force are important when it comes to bookings.
03 May 2021 15:20:59
@Gerryc1977 - Even when Celtic were winning 9 in a row, there was always talk about refereeing and bias. So I don't think this was born out of yesterday's result. To be honest, I have not seen many Celtic fans blame the result on the referee. However, the fact he did not follow the laws of the game needs looked at, we need an apology and the suspension needs reversed.
I am sure we all agree that there is much to fix at Celtic just now but that does not mean fixing the manager and squad is mutually exclusive to addressing the refereeing issue, as it is possible to tackle both issues at the same time. Celtic have allowed this issue to go unchallenged for far too long and it is time we shone the spotlight on it.
Personally speaking I would get someone in for next season and announce it before a ball is kicked.
03 May 2021 15:21:13
gerry even with our house in order these decisions will still rob us of success as it has been proven in the past. to completely ignore them because were are poor on the field just now is wrong this bias is part of the problem and its something wee need to sort out the ref broke a rule to send our player off. the question is why did he do that he will have been giving the new rules and he has had a full season to remember them.
03 May 2021 15:25:45
Why can’t folk see by the ref situation for 1 second. McGregors two fouls yesterday were both yellow cards in today’s game, especially his second, but forget the red card. If your correct in your comment then I assume Celtic will be chasing up an explanation to that incident as we speak here. yesterday was just another example of a rank rotten performance that’s been dished up most the season. We can talk about the red, going to 10men, let’s no forget we’ve been in that situation a couple of years back and won the game 3-2. I couldn’t give a toss what ref supports who. If we put a team on the park that’s committed to the cause, willing to fight for the jersey, like the past 9 years especially we’ll be successful more often than not, most Celtic fans in my opinion right now first and foremost should be seriously concerned where the clubs at and what’s gone on this season than worry about whit ref we get, who he supports or all that crap. these refs have in the main been here the biggest part of our last 9 years of success and haven’t halted us, why? Because if yer good enough you come through. we’ve been rotten this year and that’s why rangers won the title, they’re nae great team, we’ve made them look great.
03 May 2021 15:36:59
Stuart Dougal also got his wish for his last match as referee to be at ibrox in 2009.
It was the second last match of the season and Rangers were home to Aberdeen.
Charlie Mulgrew was wrongly sent off on 18 minutes when Kyle Lafferty faked a head butt injury.
Later on Bougerra was also sent off for Rangers after kicking the Aberdeen goalkeeper in the head.
Stuart Dougal’s last decision as a referee was to rescind the Bougerra red card, which allowed Bougerra and Lafferty to play the Championship winning game against Dundee Utd for following week.
Lafferty scored the opening goal and I’m sure he received a suspension for his Mulgrew dive but his suspension wasn’t active until the start of the new season.
We could write a book.
There’s too many referees in the central belt now, all coming from the corrupt Lanarkshire referees system.
Years ago there were referees from Aberdeen etc but not anymore.
03 May 2021 15:41:31
Gerry nobody is disagreeing with you regarding the team this season or blaming referees for where we are, I was replying to your suggestion that referees don’t deliberately make mistakes which they clearly do and the evidence is there.
03 May 2021 15:41:51
@UI - I trained as a ref with the SFA, although I never actually officiated a game as I cba.
When new rules come out, all refs in the association are made aware of them and they also attend regular events at Hampden and watch videos and get tested on what the decision should be. So they have no excuse for not knowing them, especially at the highest level.
03 May 2021 15:52:38
United Ireland, in a game such as yesterday’s shown world wide, I can’t imagine the ref knowingly and deliberately flouted a rule. He made his call now I’ve stated earlier I’m not up to speed on this rule so if he has indeed broken a rule then I fully expect Celtic as a club to be acting on it and highlighting this and if as you say he’s definitely broken a rule or whatever you call it I’d expect him to be punished accordingly. I also take NAWs point on fairness in terms of evening refs out dependant on teams they support, but surely we can be the only country in the world with this problem.
03 May 2021 15:56:25
No point in blaming the Referee we were gash and gash all season and the board did nothing if you want to blame anyone for yesterday blame the board They let it happen if they even just looked at the results or tables in Europe or at home they would have seen something was far wrong but did nothing.
03 May 2021 16:12:36
@Gerryc1977 - In England you need to declare what team you support and are not allowed to referee a game involving your team.
I am not asking for preferential treatment for Celtic. All I am asking for is a level playing field and an end to officiating a game that involves your own team or their rivals.
By the way I am not saying Walsh was dodgy yesterday, even though he gave a decision against the laws of the game. I also do not know what team he supports but as I pointed out, this has nothing to do with yesterday's game or Walsh. The issue I am discussing is a historic one.
Let me ask you Gerryc, should we have to compete in a competition that gives preferential treatment to our opponents? Surely, for the integrity of the competition, the rules should be applied evenly and you should be able to make it as a referee regardless of what team you support?
03 May 2021 16:26:59
@Gerryc1977 - You said "Why can’t folk see by the ref situation for 1 second. McGregors two fouls yesterday were both yellow cards in today’s game, especially his second"
However, you are mistaken. The laws of the game state that if there is a yellow card offence committed but the referee plays advantage, then he cannot issue the yellow card for the offence.
So it was not a 2nd yellow if the referee follows the laws of the game, which is the only laws he can follow.
This raises the question, why is there a referee officiating the biggest game in Scotland but does not know the laws of the game. I find that worrying.
03 May 2021 16:49:32
NOA, England is a bigger country with loads more teams to follow so stands to reason they could possibly avoid a ref refereeing a game involving the club he supports, in Scotland the biggest part of the country interested in football support either Celtic or rangers so it will be difficult for an official to take part in a game that didn’t involve the team they support, unless you stop officials coming through because too many support a set team ie rangers. Do I want an official that supports rangers officiating my teams games? No I don’t, but this isn’t as folk remind me a new trend, all I’m saying here is had we won the title this season would we seriously be discussing referees on this chat today? In an ideal world especially here in the west of Scotland I’d love all officials in this country to have no allegiance to any club then there would be no issue, but what’s the solution? As I’m reminded on here it’s been this way for years, do folk seriously think it’s going to change? Turkeys don’t vote for Christmas. Are we seriously expecting the SFA to grant foreign refs for certain games? It’s no going to happen.
03 May 2021 17:16:18
It did happen when referees went on strike, I can't quite remember why, it may have been as a result of the Mc Donald fiasco, where Celtic complained so what’s the point of Celtic making any sort of complaint.
03 May 2021 17:44:57
Garryc, to be fair I only mentioned Dermot Gallagher as an example as he is a former top referee in England and being used to explain certain desicions within the context of a match on TV inc VAR this season.
I agree with you on what our priorities should be moving forward and my posts on this are a plenty on this site. I also agree that yesterday's game was yet another installment of self inflicted misery in this seasons sorry excuse for a league campaign.
But please, don't think for a minute, as has been highlighted above, that the allegiences of generations of referee's in this country (particularly the West of Scotland) have no baring on those referees same referee's 'honest' mistakes in countless games involving our team or the knuckledraggers from Castle Greyskull across the city.
John Beaton was photographed drinking in a Rangers pub in Bellshill (The Crown Bar) after a derby match, probably another honest mistake.
The S. F. A and it's referee's are rotten to the core and have been for decades, jobs for the brotherhood (Orange or Masonic - take your pick) but they'll let the likes of Collum etc in every now and then, just as long as they toe the line and know their place.
03 May 2021 17:45:45
The ref will probably phone John Kennedy and apologise for his mistake.
03 May 2021 17:49:57
oldkilly, I think it was November 2010 the ref's went on strike.
03 May 2021 17:55:08
😄🤣😂.
03 May 2021 18:44:08
Pedro71 it was November 2010 Celtic chairman John Reid asked for McDonalds removal, it was then the referees went on strike for their honesty being questioned, it was week later Dallas left after his so called joke about the Popes visit .
03 May 2021 20:00:59
@garyc1977 - As I repeatedly point out, my suggestion has nothing to do with yesterday's match or Walsh. My opinion has not changed on this topic for years and I have regularly discussed it on the forums at various times, sometimes after we have won and sometimes after we have got beat.
I pointed out that England don't let refs officate games involving their team in response to your remark that it does not happen in other countries, so I was highlighting that was not the case.
Why are nearly all referees from Glasgow or Lanarkshire and why are most of them Rangers fans?
Surely Celtic fans, fans of other clubs and people from beyond the west central belt are capable of being good referees to? So why is that not happening?
Why are we having retired referees, who don't support Rangers coming out and saying they had their progress halted because of the team they supported?
If you think we should just sit back and accept that this bias, then I am afraid I cannot agree with you.
This needs challenged and it needs challenged as soon as possible.
03 May 2021 20:27:33
gerry nobody is saying we haven't been rotten mate yes we have been rotten all season but the ref went against the rules and sent our player off that changed the whole game and gave that mob the upper hand and helped them on there way to the win.
don't understand how you can sit and defend the refs in this country after there years of bias and so called honest mistakes that favour one club have you been listening to all the games on the radio. your view on refs baffle me as pedro explained above about john Beaton in a rangers pub get selfies with sevco supports basically rubbing it in or faces as nothing will be done about it and they know that. that day Beaton had failed to send of Morelos 3 times in that match.
03 May 2021 20:28:06
Spot on NAW (nee LAW) 👌.
03 May 2021 20:31:17
Yes oldkilly, I remember they brought in foreign refs and did the Portuguese not arrive at Glasgow Airport and then get back on the plane stating the SFA got them there under false pretences 😆.
03 May 2021 21:11:40
Pedro I’m sure we had a Swiss refi in charge of our game that week end.