30 May 2019 22:39:37
Hi K72, I'm going to start a new post in case you missed this response to your last post. Ronnie Deila was an imaginative appointment. He introduced a modern dietary program but couldn't beat a Sevco team full of diddys that struggled to get promotion. Do we not have a good coaching structure at the moment? Can you tell me how many players have come through the Celtic academy that are currently playing professionally? You say that Rogers is a good coach. I don't dispute that but what I do dispute is your unsubstantiated claim that Lennon is not. You said that he has done nothing in the last three months to think he has evolved as a coach. He has worked with Rogers players and achieved a win ratio of 71.4%. Roger's only managed a win ratio of 69.82% with the same players. In Lennon's first spell at Celtic, his win ratio was 70%. That's also better than Rogers win ratio but when Lennon did that, he was working with a fraction of the budget that Rogers had. In summary, that means Lennon is better at winning games than Rogers and that's why he got through the group stages of the Champions League and Rogers failed to do it. If you want a real headline, Neil Lennon beat Barcelona 2-1. Rogers got pumped 7-0. Now, I'm case this has escaped you, I'll explain what I've just done. I've put forward an argument with facts to back it up. You, by contrast, have spouted unsubstantiated pish attacking our manager and I find it difficult to comprehend why a Celtic fan would do that. Perhaps you could explain that to me.
31 May 2019 00:22:37
Now that's a post well said coy excellent.
31 May 2019 05:43:16
Your figures can't be argued against but be honest we have stumbled over the line, and more against lawell appointing without speaking to anyone else surely should have alarm bells ringing along with offering Izzy and beating the drum for Lustig, you can use your imagination with some sort of structure and plan in mind, so you can swear accuse whatever you like my friend so maybe I'm a bit quick to have a go but doesn't look if he does accept it he is going to surround himself with people who would give fresh ideas and surely Football has changed dramatically in last 5 - 10 years especially recruitment which is key and looks as if the way lawell worded his statement that Lennon would be managerand recruiter, and that's not showing imagination.
{Ed001's Note - sorry but anyone using stats such as win percentage over such a small period of time has not got a single solitary clue about statistical analysis. Was it 14 games he managed? That is a tenth, at minimum, of the number of games you would need before you can draw any kind of fair comparison. Otherwise there are far too many potential anomalies which can affect the numbers for them to be any true reflection of what is happening. People like COYBIG really shouldn't quote stats if they are going to be so blatantly abusing them without any context even. It is not even like the difference is such a huge one that it is of any relevance anyway.}
31 May 2019 06:24:27
He also quoted stats from his previous spell which was more than 14 games, maybe reply to his full statement to make it fair.
{Ed001's Note - again irrelevant as the difference between the numbers is over such a small number of games that only a huge swing would be relevant. A smaller than 1% difference over thousands of events would be relevant, but we are not talking thousands, we are talking of a lot smaller number and so not relevant. Even a large swing could be easily put down to anomalies unless it happens over a much larger number of events. But less than 1% is utterly irrelevant.}
31 May 2019 06:38:04
But what it shows Lennon can't be that much of a bad choice as many are making out.
{Ed001's Note - no it doesn't, as it does not include context. How many of those games were actually played in a competitive league, for example? The competitiveness of the SPFL has improved, not just with the return of Rangers, but also with the likes of Kilmarnock under Steve Clarke becoming a decent side. Also the players available etc make a difference. The numbers literally tell you nothing on their own.}
31 May 2019 07:26:11
Out of curiosity, any stats on his time as manager at Hibs, as that was his most recent job as manager before taking over as Celtic manager?
31 May 2019 07:59:15
Cory it doesn't matter about stats, the brass tacks is that Lennon was offered the job without competing with any other candidates, and I don't think he had earned that right that's all mate. But I suppose the blame for that isn't with Lennon but Lawell.
31 May 2019 09:15:50
I think the way Rodgers left has left a lot of people looking for ways to discredit his achievements, but if you go back a year and were to have a poll of the fans asking whether they wanted Rodgers or Lennon as manager I think the result would have been fairly one sided in Rodgers favour.
What has disappointed me about the Lennon appointment is not the man himself but the fact that the club should be aiming for the best possible manager they could find, the fact that they didn't even seem to look for anybody else just shows how cheapskate this board is.
I hear people say that it was Rodgers players and Lennon shouldn't be judged because of that, but When Rodgers took over 3 years ago he improved the standards of the players who were already here, look at the likes of Forrest, McGregor, and even Scott Brown.
The football in the latter days of Rodgers tenure was becoming a bit stale, but I believe we should have tried to find a more progressive coach who could have carried on Rodgers work with a fresh eye. This appointment just looks lazy and cheap.
31 May 2019 07:14:25
He also had a much better record in Europe like coybig said.
{Ed001's Note - that's fine, I am not saying that Lennon is bad or anything, just saying those numbers are useless on their own and tell you nothing.}
31 May 2019 07:17:43
And as the old saying goes you can only beat what's in front of you. Rodgers first season was incredible but let's not beat around the Bush league is still poor, even us this season with injuries, manager leaving and not playing how we should (even before Lennon came in) we still won the treble.
31 May 2019 07:43:32
So was the champions league competitive?
{Ed001's Note - what difference does that make? Again the numbers are too small for a win %age to matter. I was merely pointing out that you need to add some context to get any kind of analytic value from the numbers. I was not suggesting that it makes a difference to whether Rodgers or Lennon is better or worse than each other, just saying you need more information to get anything from the numbers. You clearly do not understand statistical analysis and this is going right over your head, but you need more information than merely one set of numbers.}
31 May 2019 08:51:59
Ed001 bang on the spl then and now is night and day in comparison. We actually have a competitive league now below us killie Aberdeen etc are playing to their strengths now through youth and loans and it’s paying dividends. As for the comparison in Europe that’s ridiculous these teams are going from strength to strength every year the financial rewards are so great that everyone else is being left behind.
31 May 2019 08:53:54
Ed001 is absolutely correct. But I admire COYBIG's attempt to raise the game and the idea of offering support for one's argument shouldn't offend Ed001's empirical sensibilities.
{Ed001's Note - yes it should offend them because he has not offered support, he has offered irrelevant numbers.}
31 May 2019 09:45:26
I could have achieved a 70% win record with the old club not in the league.
31 May 2019 10:20:27
To be fair, I'm sceltical of Lenny - due to mistakes/ coaching philosophies he's used in the past.
There is no doubt the guys a fan through and through and lives and breathes the club. It's fair to say he knows what the fans want and with that knows the expectations required.
I remember when Lenny left first time round I was gutted. His football could be poor at times, but on his initial seasons when he was supported and backed by the board there was some great attacking football played. His European record was good but not great. He was willing to adapt tactics to win games (something rodgers lacked on the European stage) . Lennys team last time round began to dry up through the lack of reinvestment from the board, players being sold and not giving adequate funds to replace. The football was becoming dire. Similarly to what had happened to Rodgers.
I don't know why the board let our teams go stagnent rather than constantly updating and enhancing the team yearly. We tend only to do this in 3-4 year cycles.
Also we have all heard of Lenny not being as concerned as much about players diets, players lifestyle decisions and strict fitness regimes. I believe if this is the case his attitude towards this needs changed - hopefully Diela and Rodgers left that legacy at the club. I think if Lennon is given 'serious' money (15+ - Scottish football) this transfer window and told improve this team, along side him holding the philosophy of fitness, domination of possession and with his own attacking flair of attack we should be in for a good season.
I am cautious that if as much as one of these things are lost: fitness, possession, attacking football or lack of investment. We could be seriously jeopardising 10 in a row.
As most celtic fans no matter what we need to get behind him and the bhoys and show them we believe.
31 May 2019 10:13:46
We didn’t stumble over the line, we won the league by 9 points. That’s the same winning margin as the previous year and is comfortable in anyone’s book. As for appointing Lennon without speaking to anyone, it looks as if the decision had already been taken but why they chose to delay the announcement, I’m not sure but it certainly shouldn’t ring alarm bells unless you’re looking for excuses disagree with his appointment. Izzy is actually leaving the club so again, concern about nothing but Neil Lennon is far better qualified than any of us to make judgements about the playing or the coaching staff. If you have concerns about Lennon’s recruitment, look to VVD, Wanyama, Forster etc. as before, no valid points to support any argument against Neil Lennon being appointed.
31 May 2019 10:59:56
Looks guys all I'm try to show is people atm are looking for a reason to go after Lennon. People are blaming the board or who ever for the appointment. And saying we didn't look at anyone else as there where a few statements released saying he was the only man for the job. maybe they did interview others or look at others but what good does telling people that. Maybe they are just trying to show support for Lennon. But no one knows for sure, its all speculation. Lennon wasn't my first choice either but give him a chance. He didn't exactly do a bad job last time. I can see 1 or 2 bad results at the start of the season and vultures will be swarming. If we don't do 9 or 10 it won't because of Lennon it will because the board haven't backed him.
{Ed007's Note - People don't need to look for a reason to go after Lennon, the reasons are staring everybody in the face except some people are blinkered by wee green lovehearts & shamrocks.
We all know that nothing's ever Neil Lennon's fault, he's already blamed the fans and the players for his failings over the last couple of months and when it goes t1ts up his fanboys will be on to blame the board, the SFA, Masons, Craig Whyte, the SFA, Brexit, UEFA, NATO, SCIAF.... but just like his embarrassing cup defeats during his last tenure (getting beat at home to Morton being a particular highlight), Bolton's relegation, the bust up at Hibs with players while they sat in 8th place in the league with 7 wins from 22 games - none of it will be Lennon's fault.
You're already getting your excuses in and he hasn't even taken the job yet.}
31 May 2019 11:30:24
And your already slating him and he hasn't got the job. We don't know what went on at hibs behind the scenes again it's all speculation. And Guardiola couldn't of helped Bolton. His mistake with Bolton was going there in the first place. Again I would of preferred a bilic or bielsa but I think people are over reacting at Lennon getting the job.
{Ed007's Note - I slated him when he was here last time and absolutely nothing has happened since he left Celtic to show that he has improved as a manager or as a coach.
Neil Lennon overstepped the mark at Hibs on numerous occasion, threatening a player was the final straw and it cost him his job, both parties lawyers worked on an NDA and it was agreed that Lennon would leave by mutual consent - that's just PR jargon for we've agreed not to wash our dirty laundry in public.
I'll use an old Fairhill proverb for his reason for taking the Bolton job even though he knew they had major problems on the horizon - The wee head rules the big head.}