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08 Jul 2015 21:57:55
Seen this online and had to post. 'Can Greece not just call themselves The Greece and tell all their creditors to F off. Same county, no debt and keep their history'. Lol
09 Jul 2015 03:16:11
Ha ha ha 😊
09 Jul 2015 07:40:55
Funniest post off the year!!
08 Jul 2015 21:43:56
Imagine if celtic were to wipe the slate clean and start over. Imagine, from the perspective of being debt-free and with unencumbered security over all assets including a UEFA standard stadium holding 60,000 and a state of the art training facility. The possibilities.
Imagine CFC at board level engaged the fan base and asked the simple question "what do you want and what do you aspire to as "fans" and how much would you be prepared to pay?
So, for the purposes of putting some £ signs in to the mix, let's hypothesise over "income trajectory or revenue trajectory".
For arguments sake, imagine the engagement process told us that we could conceivably sell 55,000 season tickets at an average price of £400. This gives us £22m. Add in match day revenue at £3 per head which is £165,000 for (say) 25 home "domestic" matches including cups' call it £4m. Throw in match day advertising and hoardings; say £500,000 per annum. Add in shirt sponsors at £2m per year and a kit manufacturing deal at £3m per year (so another £5m) plus domestic TV and prize money (say) another £2m.
This gives us an operating revenue of circa £33m excluding ANY european competition.
Add in a tolerance of me being 20% wrong and call it £40m per annum.
We do not want to run at a loss and of course we have significant operating costs including security, policing, staffing etc, but let us say that we have 50% of the revenue channelled in to the playing side. What does £20m get you? I imagine that we probably have a limit of £1.5m per year including bonuses for any given "special" player and we probably require around 50 full time professionals including youth who could be on as little as £300 per week.
ECL and EL participation can create a quantum on revenue of 30% if we qualify for ECL and 10% for EL (Groups) so we are up to £44m to £52m depending on the competition we play in.
These are simply figures for the purposes of debate. What can we hope to achieve with that turnover if we are to assume £0 debt.
Assume £45m revenue , so £22.5m on players wages. Clearly some players get paid an awful lot more than some others (and rightly so) but if we look at the 50 full time player scenario, this gives us an average weekly wage of £8500 per week. We know that Captain Brown is taking away £1.5m per year (around 7% of the budget), so 14 Scott Brown's! All joking aside, CFC could not function as a multi-tiered club with a Scott Brown equivalent in every position. The first eleven alone would gobble up 77% of the playing side budget.
But despair not. Debt is available and debt is no bad thing if it can be serviced. Add to that the purchase of rough diamonds and the selling of gems and you can see how the revenue can be materially boosted. The debt element is the interesting aspect. We could easily acquire debt and use Celtic Park, Lennoxtown and revenue streams as rock solid collateral.
If we took our "revenue" and even sabotaged it to stay on the right side of cautious, we could allocate £1m for "interest on debt" at (say) 4% per annum, which means we could amass £25m in debt (costing 4% per annum).
Taking Ed's point, CFC has outstanding credit. It would have no problems whatsoever finding willing lenders. So long as it is serviceable and sensible. Living within our means (debt free) is fine if we are getting what we want and are willing to fill the coffers every other week to watch it. But when the whole "proposition" begins to bore, underwhelm and disappoint, what then?
Celtic currently make profit. The executive team are paid fantastic amounts. But are we now becoming complicit in our club's demise and (in a European context at least) embarrassingly uncompetitive?
There is no easy answer here, but CFC fans should perhaps dig a little more and ask more searching questions. We want to get "to a level" and we know we currently harbour players who won't take us there (not their fault). The reason they are not replaced is because we choose not to invest to become materially better.
We will show up in huge numbers and pay a premium if we think the team is worth showing up for. We just might surprise our board with how far we will go to put a winning, entertaining, dynamic team on the park. It may be more than £400 per season.
The biscuit tin mentality has been sidelined and now we pride ourselves on being financially vigilant and sensibly frugal but we the FANS make this strategy both possible and sustainable. Is this what we actually want?
08 Jul 2015 22:24:28
Why is it (and rightly so ),that some players get paid more than others,its a team game,they should all get the same,of course I know why some get paid more,it the same reason the bwankers in the city get their big bonuses.
08 Jul 2015 23:25:13
Aindoh
I cannot think of one team sport where members are paid the same. Talent deserves to attract a premium. By your logic, Izzy and Messi (if they both played for Celtic or Barca) would be paid the same ….
And the bankers in the City are (generally speaking) paid for outstanding revenue building performance (albeit often short sighted and cut throat revenue building tactics that leave the naive worse off)
The best (at anything) deserve whatever premium they get so I disagree profoundly with you Sir
08 Jul 2015 23:50:51
Aindoh I get paid more than most electricians because I'm better and more experienced and mor qualified so I should get paid the same as another electrician who doesn't understand electrical work outside of the basics of working in houses? Life is not equal and people who ar better at their job deserve to be payed more for their ability! Your idealisation is just ridiculous!
08 Jul 2015 23:54:25
The sad facts are we could spend 50 million this summer and it guarantees nothing in todays mad world of tv ruling football. If we spent 50 mill we would probably be on a par with Stoke or Swansea in spending, irrelevant to the so called big boys funded by tv and sugar daddy's. I still have belief though that with a shrewd manager which I believe we have
who can assemble a well organised side it is still possible to take on the so called big boys and win. WGS is the proof, he worked wonders with the backbone of his team consisting of Mcmanus Caldwell Robson Hartley and McDonald.
09 Jul 2015 21:27:19
Paradise,I was talking about the other bwankers,the ones that gamble with other peoples money,and when the gamble comes off,they congradulate themselves and pay each other huge bonuses,and when the gamble does'nt work,they just shrug their shoulders,say 'ah well that's what happens' then pay themselves huge bonuses.
Sos,I'm talking about a team situation,I think everyone in the team should get the same basic,players can earn more with performance or goal bonuses ,win bonuses,etc,don't see the point of paying prima donna rates if the team performance is still run of the mill.
08 Jul 2015 13:51:29
ED
Can you answer third question please. I'm really keen to understand your view on this subject matter.
Do you believe that the power brokers at Celtic Park see Celtic in the ECL Group? Do you think they manage the club's financial resources accordingly, IE in support of ECL qualification or do you think they (privately) have lower expectations.
Obviously ECL qualification is fun, but is it a good idea to qualify marginally only to become lambs to the slaughter? I love the idea of ECL qualification and a packed Celtic park on a Wednesday night can be spellbinding, but I have been of the view for some time that we aren't that serious about ECL qualification.hence underwhelming transfer business.
I see the business case for sustainability and keeping one's house in order and not chasing rainbows (at the risk of serious financial peril), but do you think RD will be judged on success (or otherwise) re qualification or will he be judged on player purchases - development and sales and domestic trophy count?
I believe that it will be the latter.over to you ED
{Ed007's Note - I think the that people running our club show a distinct lack of ambition when it comes to Europe and fans have bought into the small club mentality they spin about how we should be grateful to even be in the CL qualifiers.
A club our size with our finances should be looking at either qualifying for the last 16 of the CL or finishing third and dropping down to the EL for an extended run in that. One way or another the realistic aim should be European football after the turn of the year but if Ciftci is the calibre of player we're targeting to play up front I think we'll struggle to make the group stages.
Winning the domestic trophies is our bread and butter and must always be our priority so me personally will judge RD on that, like managers before him he's got one hand tied behind his back when it comes to Europe and it's Perdo that's doing the tying. How far down the list of targets do you think Ciftci is 5th or 6th?
08 Jul 2015 18:27:04
I don't think Ciftci is far down the list of targets, perhaps number 2 after Vossen. We bid for Vossen, did we bid for anyone else? I think the decision to go after Ciftci is down to a combination how well Armstrong and GMS have done and how shockingly strikers bought from overseas have performed in recent years. As stated our bread and butter every year is domestic matters so we need to buy players who we know can handle it physically
{Ed007's Note - How about Sean Dillon or John Souttar to replace VvD? Dillon's Irish so that ticks one of the boxes already and practically guarantees he'd be a success at CFC, we could maybe sell Biton and buy Paul Paton.
After all, look at the how well Armstrong and GMS have done.}
08 Jul 2015 19:13:40
Hardly. I meant it from the point of view of them being big talents in Scotland who earned the right to move to us and have done the job so far unlike many of our foreign signings recently. Ciftci has performed well and is EXACTLY the type of striker we are looking for, more so than any of the other strikers we've been linked with. I'd have preferred Hooper or Vossen but they don't have the same skillset as Ciftci who is more suited to playing up front on his own than those 2. Plus he offers something completely different to Griffiths and Scepovic. Out of interest who do want us to sign instead of Ciftci?
{Ed007's Note - I can't recall you being on here saying Ciftci is EXACTLY the type of striker we need last season, it's the usual guff from some supporters who need to find some excuse for the garbage we sign, give them a chance, wait and see blah blah. I'd rather we didn't sign anyone than sign Ciftci, what about Kris Boyd?}
08 Jul 2015 19:31:24
Certainly agree with the PL brainwash idea. Our ambition and my ambition are two different things. But there's too many just happy to go along with it. I'm fairly happy with the way our club os being run but managers do have their hands tied. When I think there is no need.
Unless anybody has heard different it would actually appear as if Vossen was our no1 target and Ciftci no2. I was hoping for better than both to be honest. Is that as far as our net stretches?
I'm not sure how much our squad has improved, if at all, so far this window.
Janko looks a cracking prospect and a shrewd bosman, but we sold Matthews for £2m and i'm guessing he was on a higher wage.
We've replaced Zaluska. Hopefully Bailly can be an improvement in the GK department.
Boyata. Decent pedigree no doubt but better than Denayer? Man City don't seem to think so and he'll do well to replicate Denayer's first season.
Ciftci or Guidetti? Guidetti for me actually.
We've also freed up Pukki, Balde, Fridjonsson. Sent several players out on loan. Not paying Wakaso and Tonev anymore.
As far as I can see there's plenty room for further investment. And that's just off player dealings. Couple in new sponsorship deals, prospect of increased CL money with what we should be paying out anyway and I am expecting some significant moves. No, demanding.
I was about done with our moneymen. RDs appointment put them right back in my goodbooks. Last summer was a bit of a scramble. Signing players without a manager, 'emergency' loans etc. Getting GMS and Armstrong in jan was good business. I'll say that. But this summer for me was wanting to be a big one. RDs playing style deserves as much quality as we can afford. So why don't we do it?
08 Jul 2015 20:19:58
I was on here a couple of weeks ago saying Ciftci would be a good signing for us and that he was in the Diego Costa mould (obviously not as talented) which is exactly what we need. I always give players a chance as any player who pulls on the green and white hoops should be backed by all Celtic supporters. I prefer to give them a chance on the park before making a judgement and if they perform above my expectations I'll be delighted. Something that seems lost on some Celtic fans who pre judge a player before they've even stepped onto the park and never change their opinions of them no matter how they perform
08 Jul 2015 20:26:44
The difference between winning the SPFL and going qualifying for the CL is what? £10-12m. (before wages)
2 or 3 really good high quality players. We qualify we get more prize money.
Is it really that much to ask that we give it a go? or could we attract the caliber of player required
08 Jul 2015 21:26:04
If the Cifti signing is one of their main targets then in my opinion the board are not really serious about Europe.
I can't for the life of me see how signing a centre forward from a mid table SPL team is suddenly going to transform us into a team capable of qualifying for Europe, let alone holding our own.
The last couple of years has shown that as soon as Celtic come up against teams from outside Scotland, we struggle, even Dukla Prague hit 5 past us.
Ronny may be great at spotting and developing young players, but that doesn't mean we can't get in a bit more quality from time to time.
I don't want us to be just an academy for players to learn their skills before moving to England, I want us to benefit from the work we put into these youngsters, but I want to see the benefits on the park, and not on the balance sheet.
I accept I will probably be shouted down for being unrealistic, and I know we can't throw silly money around, but all I want is for the board to give the manager a chance to improve things slightly year on year, not to go backwards then forward to where we started from.
08 Jul 2015 20:48:04
Like I've said on here before,Lawell to me is ruining all the good work he's done for us over the past few years! Especially the Lennon and deila years! The standard of player and spending has went down every season,while he tries to maintain we're a CL club and we can spend millions on players! Utter crap as far as I'm concerned.CL don't buy strikers for 1-2 million and expect to actually do something in it! I used to think that all he wanted was to get in the CL to coin In the money,now I don't even think he wants us there at all! Do they really think we're giving ourselves the best possible chance with a main striker force of ciftci scepovic and griffiths! I like we griff and he's done well in the SPL,but remember he was close to be shipped out in January! How many wasted millions on mediocre strikers do we have to spend for the penny to drop? I just hate the way my clubs going in recent years! Struggling to match bids from English league 1 clubs! It's just not good enough! If we go out of the CL again this season who on here thinks Lawells times up? What u think ED?
{Ed007's Note - There's not much I can add to that.}
08 Jul 2015 21:45:21
agree gerryc
08 Jul 2015 21:58:52
gerryc: spot on mate, we have moved from being CELTIC, to almost a feeder club to any EPL.
I totally get they have bucket loads of money to throw at average players, but FFS we are Celtic and our history should pull players.
to many want the big bucks and the easy route.
I understand we have to work within our budgets but at least let's spend a few bob over 1 or 2 seasons and get us back to the big CL nights at CP.
08 Jul 2015 13:07:59
Just wondering other peoples opinions of signing odegaard on loan because personally I feel its a huge waste of time and money on our side as attacking midfield is probs our strongest department and I have a feeling he's going to be broken by an ian black type at first opportunity anyway
08 Jul 2015 13:41:22
This is silly. Real and all other elite clubs courted the lad. These elite clubs haven't blazed a trail up London Road for anything we have to offer. We don't need to over think this. If the lad comes in, it will be because RD feels he has something to offer and vice versa. We are not "complete" and we don;t exactly have an abundance of quality on the park let alone in the "reserves".
If he is better than what we have or better than the majority of what we have, then why not?
We need to get used to players stopping at Celtic Park for 1 year or less! That is where we are right now. So long as they entertain and remain successful domestically, we should be happy. ECL and EL wins should be viewed as a bonus and nothing more.
Tin helmet on; we are not ECL material and haven't been for some time
08 Jul 2015 13:43:14
He'd be an exciting addition that's for sure. Although he'll never be "our" player, as long as he helps us to win games then we'll benefit from it. Would you take Denayer back on loan? Of course. Plus given he's only 16 Real could loan him to us for 2-3 seasons if we improve him year on year. The biggest bonus of signing him would the exposure the club would get from it. Football fans everywhere would be tuning in to our matches to see how he's getting on
08 Jul 2015 14:05:58
Paradise your right mate, football after all is all about entertainment and if for 1 year or so this lad provides us with some then let's embrace it and be thankful that we have a player of this caliber gracing Celtic Park.
As for Cifti I think all good strikers need that little bit of mongrel in them, I can't condone the biting of a fellow player but his ban will be fair punishment for that.
08 Jul 2015 15:36:55
I'm not convinced it will happen.
This all came from a source in Italy.
I will believe it when I see it.
08 Jul 2015 16:21:45
the way I think we should look at this ( signing) if it happens is this , if the boy does come and gets a place in the team ( on merit ) then it's up to the players who's position he takes to work harder and get better to get back in the team to displace someone else as it should be for all positions in the team , therefore. RD gets what all want to see , a team progressing through hard work and trust in the manager and coaches that their hard work will pay off
08 Jul 2015 20:32:04
Why on earth are we looking at this guy on loan. we are just babysitting him for 1 season. We are never going to sign him, is it a PR stunt so our name gets linked with RM circles?
He will not get used in the CL should we qualify. someone of our squad will miss out??
08 Jul 2015 21:19:38
To all the posters who dislike loans, would you refuse to have Messi or Ronaldo come to us on loan simply because they wudnt be OUR player.What nonsense look at Lubo for eg practically nobody had heard of him and at 33 we all thought wtf. though he wasn't a loan player we got a magical short time out of him.As some posters have said we are there to be entertained and goodness knows why we wudnt want to watch a top class player play at Celtic Park.
08 Jul 2015 11:12:52
Ed,how much do you think Michu will go for?I think he would be a great player for us.
{Ed007's Note - I'm not even sure Swansea are looking for any fee mate but he is on £30k + per week and the player wants to return to Spain or move to Italy.}
08 Jul 2015 00:48:15
I think it's about time that we Celtic supporters realized that we cannot spend money the way that we have in the past. As a club we cannot afford to take a risk on a £5million player anymore, what if the player in question got injured or just didn't perform, his value would decrease drastically and we would have lost a good chunk of money. I think that Ciftci will be good value for money, we know that the kid can score goals and can deal with any said defender in Scottish football and at 23 he can only improve. I think RD will make him an all round better player (look at what he has done with Griffiths),people have being moaning about his attitude and how he's been in trouble with just about everyone but I like his attitude,some of our best strikers have had attitude problems(VanHooijdonk,Cadete,Viduka,Dicanio,Hartson and Sutton) Give the boy a chance and don't judge him to soon.HailHail
08 Jul 2015 10:36:47
I think more than half his goals have been from the spot . Has anyone got his goals from open play don't think it's too many
{Ed007's Note - In Ciftci's last 18 games for Dundee Utd he scored 6 goals and 5 of them were penalties. }Â
08 Jul 2015 11:16:11
So all the money we spent on pukki, Balde, the fridge, lassad, miku. They where all expensive flops. I know some where loans or freebies but they took a good wage.
08 Jul 2015 11:29:23
So 1 goal from open play in 18 games! Think that stat alone is a reason for us fans to be sceptical! That's not forgetting his disciplinary record! ED I hope your right about us going for another striker mate!
08 Jul 2015 11:47:08
I'm confident Ciftci will get us 15-20 goals a season, but his biggest attribute will be bringing others into the game with his hold up play. Last season we sometimes struggled to dominate away from home against the likes of Inverness and St Johnstone as Griffiths isn't suited to holding the ball up for other players to join in attacks. I think Ciftci will really help us to dominate in the oppositions half for the majority of the 90 minutes domestically, home or away, and also in Europe where not giving the ball away cheaply is vital!
08 Jul 2015 12:09:32
He does seem to have some scoring ability but his main strength appears to be his ability to hustle and unsettle the opposition defenders into making mistakes which creates chances for others. I was always nervous when he played against us. Not sure if he's the player we need though.
08 Jul 2015 12:11:10
That's complete BS! We can afford to spend that kind of money we choose not too! And it's not as much of a risk with the correct scouting! We waste money on dud strikers for 2m here and there every season! While selling players for massive profits! Pull your head out yer arse!
08 Jul 2015 00:07:54
You know I have been reading posts on here for a number of years and some I find very amusing, some I find sad and some make me feel downright angry,but when you get total prickere trying to tell you that a 16 year old from northern Europe is dictating to REAL MADRID that takes the prize. There is absolutely NOTHING in the Spanish press, tv or radio about Martin Odegard falling out with REAL, and there is only one player who can name his contract terms 100% and I include Bale in this ,I will give you a clue it's not Bale.
Ps. Nor is there anything about Odegard joining Celtic on loan hail, hail.
08 Jul 2015 07:49:01
Think it's more the player and his father asking that a loan (which he needs) is with RD. That's what the media in the UK and on line have suggested anyway. Playing in Spain would certainly benefit him for Real, but also, working with RD. Working with a coach that knows him inside out, has a great record with youth development, can of course offer European football, and working with the man who can indeed be credited for the players already great ability - coming to Celtic over La Liga or Ajax isn't as daft as it may seem.