Celtic Banter Archive February 08 2017

08 Feb 2017 19:17:40
Seen a few bits and bobs about video refs, and its something i've always felt would work if done correctly.

Video refs always work best in more stop start games, American Football being the one i find that makes it work best (Tennis does it well too) .

Football would have to be a little different in the way it works and i think a few other rule changes and the way games are reffed too would help even more alongside video if it was done. Not everyone will like these though as implementing it in any fashion could change the game we all love a hell of a lot, but these are changes i would give serious consideration alongside video.

1. Stop start clock. Every time play goes dead or ref blows whistle to stop play etc the clock is stopped until play begins again (goal kick is taken, free kick taken etc etc) This for me would stop a hell of a lot of the worst time wasting, people falling down with"cramp" to waste time etc. You could still waste time but you will be forced to be good enough to do it with the ball in live play, no more of this 7 minute injury time bringing on a sub at the end to waste time etc etc

2. I would put 2 referees on the pitch, without going on too much (yes i know i could do that on nay topic) basically it consists of 1 ref ahead of play looking back and one behind the play looking forward (still keep linesman for offsides) this would work the same way it does in a game called Floorball (check it out, Henrik played it as a pro too, great game to play) . Both refs have the ability to blow whistle and stop play. Also it gives the refs the ability to talk and come to decisions. I used to ref Floorball and it was amazing how it made the job easier, watch some youtube vids and watch the refs to see how it works if you don't get my thinking ( i could expand on and on and on and on about this one if i could be bothered)

and now the video bit.

3. We would have a challenge system like they have in the NFL, However there would be more limitations on what you can use it for. Can only be used where there was a possibility of foul play involved, Like NFL a challenge can only be made up to the point of play beginning again. e. g Ref blows for penalty, manager shouts 'thats pure BS so that is Collum' and throws challenge (probs a buzzer to ref rather than a flag actually being thrown) . Video review and decision made. Same goes for a tackle made ball goes for corner, manager thinks its a penalty challenges and its reviewed. If they lose the challenge you lose 1 of the 3 you have, if you win you keep it. Add to this the ref (or refs) being able to call for it when they like to check for anything even whilst play goes on (e. g ref can ask whilst play happens, did that guy elbow the other guy, if so video ref says yes, at next stop in play its reviewed) . There are hundreds of these scenarios so i won't go on.

This all said there are plenty of negatives in my list and in any way video review is to be implemented. do we want to introduce the possibility of games being so stop start etc (imo we already have this, see how long it takes for corners or free kicks to be set up sometimes) but we would end up with a game with less errors in how rules are applied and a defence against honest mistakes. But for me having a game where the rules are being applied in a more correct manner is a better outcome than just plodding along as is.

{Ed007's Note - Jeez O, Evinguu, between me and you we could have a donate button on here by Easter :-D

08 Feb 2017 19:36:23
aye you both like a long post ed lol.

08 Feb 2017 20:13:00
Good idea. 50/ 50 split you and me.

Right folks roll up roll up.

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08 Feb 2017 20:14:53
I think the trouble with having video replays in football is that there isn't the natural breaks in play that there are in other sports.
You could have a situation where team A claims a penalty, the referee refuses it, team B break away and could be just about to score when play could get halted because the manager of team A wants to review the penalty incident. If it was shown that the decision was right all along then team B could be denied a legitimate goal.
In tennis there is 30 seconds between points, in Rugby there is a gap between a try being scored and the conversion, that's when the challenges are made.
In Football there would be a lot of times when the game would need to be stopped for a challenge, I wonder if that would not create as much confusion and controversy as there is now.

08 Feb 2017 20:19:53
Some good points there.

I'm sure I read somewhere, a study/ journal that in a football (soccer) game, the ball can be 'out of play' for an average of 30-40 mins. So your stop-start clock idea would be good imo. Who doesn't want to see more football?

As for the video refs, I'm sure there could be a logistical way to quickly go back and review 'major' decisions certainly.

08 Feb 2017 21:35:33
Classic case. I am just watching the Leicester v Derby game. Goalie comes out against Moussa outside are. Hits ball with hand but ref misses it - TV CAMERA DID NOT MISS IT. Moussa gets frustrated and shouts his appeal at ref. MOUSSA GETS BOOKED.
Now, tv would show ref made a mistake and get the chance to do the right and fair thing. NAW, REF IS RIGHT AND FECK IT. Now potentially, Moussa could have been on enough points that the booking gets him banned. This would affect the team and, as I said before could cost a manager, players, club workers their jobs not to mention the financial implications. THE POINT BEING, WE ARE IN THE 21st CENTURY USING VICTORIAN METHODOLOGY AND CONTROL.

08 Feb 2017 21:43:09
sorry in advance, long un again

gerryc

Although Rugby isn't challenge based that gap is because when the ref is unsure he/ she will ask 'is there any reason i should not award a try' video ref says ' yep, number 8 was offside' or 'award the try'. before the conversion is taken. I would love this in football. ref blows for pen says to video ref 'is there any reason i cannot award a penalty' vid ref ' yip, he is a diving cheating bassa and you were conned, no penalty should be awarded'. or '"the defender is wearing green and white of course its a penalty my brother, "

I do agree with you though with regards to that scenario.

I would suggest in my original world a challenge couldn't be made until the play goes dead. E. g manager thinks foul in the box, no pen awarded, manager notifies ref of challenge, play continues till ball goes dead e. g other team scores, goes to review. Challenge was correct and should have been a penalty, reset gameclock and score back to time of challenge and award penalty, or if not a pen allow play and score to continue. Video ref / ref decision after review is final.

even though they could still get it wrong as someone said one persons interpritation of a foul is different from another. We would be getting more right than wrong and at least have a chance of unfair decisions being rectified in game rather than what we have now where it just lasts all week (or years in some cases) going on about one decision that may or may not have changed the game.

Also JimTim. I would also introduce play clocks, e. g clock stops but a free kick must be taken within 30 seconds (barring treatment to a player, timer starts when player is off fiel/ back up) 10 seconds for a goal kick and 30 again for corners, 15 for throwins. Exceed tmelimit, decision reversed.

Also give refs more power, give away a foul and give lip, 10 yard penaly (like rugby) would create greater power for refs to control players and force them to not play like fannies.

08 Feb 2017 22:12:43
Some good thinking I'll give you that Evinguu.

Far too much change for the old order though, unfortunately. Shame for you too - I'm sure there'll be somebody somewhere in a window-less room getting paid to at least come up with these ideas, so that FIFA actually have something to boot out.

I've seen some outrageous refereeing at FIFA level (search vids for Japan v Uzbekistan for example) . With an added array of scandals and investigations, the conspiracist inside would ask why eliminating, or at least reducing human error, hasn't happened by now. Unless of course there are people sat at the round table who have something to benefit from honest mistakes.

Back to at least trying to talk sense though, I think the main thing for me is that any changes wouldn't disrupt the flow TOO much. If it got anything near to the level of stop-startey-ness American Football is, i'm outtie.

08 Feb 2017 22:39:16
I thought War and Peace was long.

08 Feb 2017 23:06:53
croybhoy. you do realise i just read that as a challenge to go on and on even more? 😀😀😀.

08 Feb 2017 23:13:34
JimTim, that's the problem, its not just a case of yes or no to video as the media are portraying, someone does need to go through all the variables, sadly because of these vested interests we are going to get a not even half thought out plan. This will be in place for a season then left in the bin marked 'never try this again, continue with ongoing mediocraty'. Video reffing would put a lot of media and pundits out of work if it were always right or almost anyways, they wouldn't have anything to say. or moan about. Nor would a lot of us sometimes too.

Maybe me not having a lot to say is a good thing for some though. 😀😀😀.

08 Feb 2017 23:17:42
Looking at the disagrees (with no supporting comments) does that mean you are ok with the way its done now? I find it hard to believe that those contesting change are happy to accept some of the honest mistakes involving our team and for the sport in general. My wife, who is NOT in any shape or form a football follower has commented on some decisions and why they were allowed to go unquestioned. She follows tennis and often quotes the technology used. The main point here is that referees are not too proud to review decisions and accept if they called it wrong.

08 Feb 2017 09:15:02
Are we suppost to be feeling bad about our current financial power? The Scottish tabloids moaning about Celtic popping the champagne whilst the rest of Scottish football suffers? Honestly only in Scottish Football would you get bad press for being in the green! HH.

08 Feb 2017 10:05:59
Wasn't a problem when moonbeams murry was talking about floating pitches and serving lamb though eh?