Celtic Banter Archive December 08 2015

 

Use our rumours form to send us celtic transfer rumours.

08 Dec 2015 21:31:14
Watching the Wolfsburg United game. Stating obvious but our distance from being able to engage at this level is astonishing. No quick fix for this, hoping for the RD long term plan to pan out looks like only option as no decent calibre manager is going to come in and we simply cannot attract players who would be able to make necessary impact. Even if Celtic manage to sneak into Champions League next season, we would be annihilated against either of these sides. If RD does work out it is going to take years and investment. Moyes is not coming and the board can't attract players that they also aren't prepared to pay enough for. Either RD turns us into Barcelona Lite or we start again at square one with another roll of the dice budget venture. Wow, cheery mood the night eh?

Believable0 Unbelievable0

{Ed007's Note - According to some supporters, Davie, the results don't matter and as long as we're getting the CL money they're more than happy to sit and watch us getting pumped in every game - just as long as it's in their Utopian CL.
It's a bit like all the smaller teams done in Scotland for years with us and Rangers except this time some of our own fans see us as the wee diddy club hoping for a big money draw.}

08 Dec 2015 21:55:53
Nutshell man, that CL group this year would have been apocalyptic.

Agree0 Disagree1

{Ed007's Note - It's the big boys playground mate, we should let them get on with it and back the team in either of the European competitions if we qualify, it wasn't that long ago we had no European football and it wasn't that long ago we were more than happy to be in UEFA's 'second' tournament.
I still don't know, or even understand, where this snobbery to demand CL football from the manager came from, I remember previous failures were blamed on the board for not investing in the team yet now that the investment is lower the expectations and demands of some supporters seem to be higher for some reason.}

08 Dec 2015 22:30:52
Ed it's nothing to do with snobbery. It's about getting beaten in any game we play outside of SPL. It's not about big boys fames either. Smaller clubs with less budget than we have see is as the easy game in the group. What do you want us to do. Refuse to play in Europe when we qualify?

Agree1 Disagree1

{Ed007's Note - Where did I say that?}

08 Dec 2015 23:17:46
Well put Johnny! You are spot on my man.

Agree2 Disagree0

09 Dec 2015 01:55:25
Well looking at Man U, a top euro manager, £200+ million spent, and can't keep a lead longer than 3 minutes.
In the grand scheme of things, surely that is a lot bigger worse mess than were in?

Agree0 Disagree0

09 Dec 2015 05:56:54
jbhoy that is totally wrong man Utd are still one of the worlds biggest clubs and can afford to have bad campaigns without it effecting them. They will still keep their best players and spend another 100+ million next year. Whereas we're sitting bottom of our group and thinking can Ronny get the better of teams like Malmö or molde next season?

Agree1 Disagree1

{Ed001's Note - it does affect them, it makes a massive difference, but not to the level it does yourselves. If they miss out on the Champions League, then it will mean they have to be more cautious in their spending to a degree.}

09 Dec 2015 09:25:33
But Jim, yes Man U are a massive club, but when was the last time they had a decent run in Europe?
They were beaten by a decent team, not a great team. They are up there in terms of revenue with real, Barcelona and byern, but way off on the playing side, were expecting Champions league football, and Man U who are a bigger brand, revenue stream etc can't get by the qualifying section. Supporters are fickle remember.

Agree0 Disagree0

09 Dec 2015 11:05:00
Since when did celtic fans care about man Utd fortunes in Europe? We should be worried that Ronny can't get the better of Malmö molde Maribor.

At this moment in time with our resources and wage bill I expect us to be better than Malmö Astana bate Maccabi gent molde if we're not I blame Ronny and the players.

There is also a whole lot of teams we should aspire to be competitive with in the champions league and Europa league that we've fallen way behind and that is the fault of the board and stay away fans.

We have enough problems without worrying about the elite clubs.

Agree0 Disagree0

09 Dec 2015 13:08:02
I think Malmo's result in Madrid shows how far we have fallen. Malmo lost 8-0, yet beat us fairly convincingly.
People who say we are making progress surely must have had a reality check after that result.
I make no apologies for wanting the Champions league money, if anyone can come up with a way we can improve without it then I'll hold my hands up, but looking at how far we have declined in the couple of years out of it, then I dread to think what this club will look like in 5 years time.
I would rather take some heavy defeats in the Champions League and see us at least trying to compete, at a higher level, rather than the way we are heading at the moment which seems to be total obscurity.

Agree0 Disagree0

09 Dec 2015 13:49:36
All that matters is the English think they are the best League in the World and Manchester Utd fans think that they are one of the biggest teams in the world . For years we laughed at the fans of a certain team claiming "we deserve better" and what have some of our fans been posting over the last few years .
Malmo played well against us, in the final weeks of their season . Unsurprisingly aster more than a month into their winter break they get done over by Real Madrid
If we want to be negative we can find reasons for negativity at all times.

Agree0 Disagree0

09 Dec 2015 14:03:10
If we weren't ambitious and didn't aim high or repeatedly punch above our weight in the past, then our long illustrious history would be a paragraph on a pamphlet.
I agree the CL has been doctored and pockled beyond recognition with fixed format draws and automatic entry to NON-champions, but smaller teams have every right to compete and claim whatever small slice of success and more importantly - revenue to improve or even survive.

Granted the current administration at Celtic seem to have maybe mismanaged previous profits and opportunities, but the support have always had expectation and hope that we can compete at some level in Europe.
Seville and CL last 16 were not too long ago under different managers and it's a reminder of what can be achieved and what level of player can be attracted in many cases without breaking the bank and playing to your limits or strengths - whatever way you look at it.

Agree0 Disagree0

{Ed007's Note - There's a huge difference between being realistically ambitious and wanting the manager sacked for not getting into the CL. As I keep saying, other managers European failures never led to calls for them to be sacked so why is that the case now?}

09 Dec 2015 14:46:11
Prior to Ronny arriving at celtic I would say we had gained a reasonable reputation in Europe over the previous decade with a couple of poor seasons thrown in. We also had a more competitive league with rangers in it whether that was to catch them or pull away from them. In all honesty Ronny has a good domestic record but with no real challenge fans are looking for more entertainment rather than just 3 points. Our standing in Europe just now is plummeting and teams we used to regard as inferior to us sadly aren't anymore and the board must accept responsibility for that but so does the manager and it's fair to say Ronny has split the fans which is never a good scenario.

Agree1 Disagree0

{Ed007's Note - Yeah getting beat 6-1 by Barca and finishing bottom of the group with one win, five losses and a -11 goal difference really cemented our reputation in Europe. Never mind though, look at the money we made and the quality players that were brought in - we replaced an England international GK with a crock who had hardly played a game in 3 years for a start.
Look at the decline in the standard of players we were signing over the last 5 years to the point that now fans are pinning their hopes on a player who has played one decent season in the Scottish second division, and when they get their wish he costs us the game. That's some step up to ask a lad to make, playing against $hite like Dumbarton and TRIFC every week to playing against Ajax in a must win game.
I can remember a time not so long ago that CFC supporters would have sold their granny to see us win the league but I guess that's not good enough for the CL groupies within the support.
The problems we're facing are the impact of long term neglect, not short term shambles.}

09 Dec 2015 15:27:48
I never even mentioned Deila in my post and have never said I wanted him sacked. My main concern has always been the direction we seem to be heading.

Agree0 Disagree1

{Ed007's Note - The general consensus seems to be to blame the manager.}

09 Dec 2015 15:49:13
Exactly ED. Can't agree enough.

As I watched the Real/Malmo game (and the goals kept going in) I wasn't thinking "thank god we aren't there", I was thinking that "just being there", on the other end of that result, would be enough for some fans.

Agree1 Disagree0

{Ed007's Note - It would break my heart to see us taking a hammering like that, the 6-1 to to that shower Barca was bad enough.}

09 Dec 2015 16:32:30
Like I said we've had a couple of poor seasons but I'd rather play the good teams and get beat than play the 2nd rate teams and get beat and that's not snobbery it's common sense. As I stated earlier the board are responsible but so is the manager as he's got a squad that should still beat Maribor Malmö and molde and that's with a championship player if need be.

Agree0 Disagree0

{Ed007's Note - If you would rather see us getting beat 6-1 by Barca than drawing 2-2 with Ajax then that's your prerogative but I know what game would help the team more. If we had been beaten 8-0 by Real Madrid would you want the manager sacked?}

09 Dec 2015 17:02:04
Ed, I think it's you who are the snob, you only seem to want us to be in a competition if we are going to win it. with that type of thinking we'll never achieve anything.
Ronny gets criticism from me because he was happy to take the job knowing the constrictions he would be under, in doing so he must have expected to be able to improve us under those conditions, the fact that he's taken us backwards means he can't complain at any criticism. He's as bad as Park and Lawwell in my opinion.

Agree1 Disagree1

{Ed007's Note - How's it snobby wanting to look at things realistically? People demanding the manager gets sacked because we don't qualify for the CL are the snobs, they don't care about results as long as the money's there. I want us to challenge at a realistic level instead of seeing us getting gubbed 6-1.}

09 Dec 2015 17:32:29
Wolfsburg may have only just made the last 16 for first time but they are a great team. Second goal may have been flattered by utd being flat footed but they are the team RD wants us to be.

Agree0 Disagree0

09 Dec 2015 18:14:31
I am not picking on Manchester United as there are many clubs similar to them . They have signed the best players that money can buy from all over Europe and beyond . They have a manager who thinks he is the best in the world ( and others did too) . Yet they couldn't despite seeding, finish in the top two and qualify for Champions League .
There is little doubt that the teams who have got the better of us this season in Europe would have failed in Utd's group too . Only the Turkish team we drew with at Celtic Park and who we play tomorrow night would be spending anything like the money that some of Utd's opponents played .
We will probably finish in the top two in CL Qualifliers in the next 5-10 yrs but if we do so we will be playing above ourselves .

Agree0 Disagree0

09 Dec 2015 18:40:06
Rather than pick out a draw with a poor Ajax team why not compare it with molde or Malmö. In your opinion what's the worst humiliated by Barcelona or the humiliation of getting beat home and away by molde?

Agree0 Disagree0

{Ed007's Note - Getting beat 6-1 with Barca was one of the lowest points I can remember as a CFC fan.}

09 Dec 2015 20:05:50
Ed with me it's not a case of wanting him sacked because we didn't reach the Champions league, it's the overall state of the team.
Whenever we step out of the SPL we struggle and we're getting worse.
Whatever the results in the group stages the last time we were there, could you honestly see this current team winning 3-0 against Shakhtar Karagandy after losing 2-0 in the first leg, I don't think this current lot would have the fight or belief to turn it around.
The trouble now is, our level is lower than the Europa league, I would like us to try and get our level up a bit, that surely is what supporters of any team would want.

Agree2 Disagree0

{Ed007's Note - How long did it take us to get to the point of beating Karagandy? I wouldn't say any team in the EL group has over ran us, some results were poor but some were OK, there's no shame in drawing away to Ajax no matter when you play them and a lot of the dropped points are down to individual errors, Gordon, Ambrose and Scott Allan are examples of that. Go back and look at the chances Griffiths missed against Ajax at CP, how can you blame the manager for those?
I gave NL a chance when he was failing in Europe and at home and I think RD deserves the same chance. At the rate we spend AND waste money we have no divine right to be in the CL and playing teams like Ajax and Fenerbahce in the EL prove that. Ajax have a far better set up for producing players and Fenerbahce outspend us by 10s of millions and they both ended up in the EL this season after failing to get past CL qualifiers.
Oh and I also don't think young Tierney would have got his chance playing in the CL.
Of course everyone's disappointed but changing the manager isn't going to change anything with the ongoings problems at the club at a higher level.}

 
Change Consent