Celtic Banter Archive November 05 2014

05 Nov 2014 21:13:34
Let's hope the hoops can keep the smile on our faces tomorrow night I'm well over going out of champions league after watching real Madrid beating a gutsy Liverpool without going out of second gear arsenal blowing a three goal lead and as I text midway through second half both man city and Chelsea struggling against a not too poor Maribor and CSKA teams a wee run in the Europa at this stage in our development would be a plus as we'd have been well out of our depth this season

Yeah agree while the money is good, the squad we have as proved last year is not good enough for Champions League football.

We got embarrassed in every group game we played.

The Europa League is our level at the moment.

Watching the Man City game, that mob are an absolute embarrassment. Aguero stamped on a West Ham player and escaped punishment the other week, glad to see this ref sending off both players tonight and hope they get a few goals late on now

I can geniunely see us going far in europa league.

Agree with above posters. Having seen how some of the teams from the so called best league in the world have got on in the group stages this year I think it shows just how well we have done in recent years. when you factor in their transfer bugets and wages compared to us I think the mauling Celtic usually get from the media after a disappointing result is a disgrace.
I'm sure they will prove me correct tomorrow if the results go against us

{Ed007's Note - We need to get away from comparing ourselves to EPL teams altogether though, BATE, Maribor or Basel don't worry about what EPL teams are spending, they concentrate on themselves, and it's those teams we need to compete with AND beat on the European stage. We've had some good recent Euro campaigns recently but we've had some right stinkers as well, blaming the money the EPL teams spend or Barca spend is just an excuse for our own failures, compare ourselves to teams with less money than us, can afford less transfer fees than us, pay less wages than us, have smaller stadia and crowds than us, don't have the sponsorship deals or the advertising appeal we have plus the additional revenue we have in season tickets etc, and it shows up the failures we've had. It's back to the 'we should be grateful to be in the CL' patter, do people think Apoel Nicosia and Olymiakos feel grateful to be in the CL?}

I agree completely, the Epl is grossly over funded and seems to me to be a breeding ground for over inflated egos, players, managers and media. There are many other teams in both European competitions, apart from maybe a half dozen well managed and superbly prepared clubs that we can be competitive and beat . We should target these teams and usually beat them. That plus an odd big shock should keep us going in Europe on an on going basis .

{Ed007's Note - Couldn't agree with you more, Chris, you're spot on here, (for a change). (clap)

See if you don't like English football, don't watch it!

Do folk have any idea how boring this is when ELP teams have poor results and we get 'oh look, best league in the world had sh*t results' - so what?

We frequently lose players to this league and is one of the reasons players come to Celtic, in the hope of being snapped up by some English Club.

Chelsea won the CL only 2 years ago and Manchester United were in the final the year before - where were Basel, Maribor etc? They do not have a hope in hell of winning it in the foreseeable futue, would not bet against an ELP Club winning it again though.

Celtic fans might be delusional but (rightly or wrongly) its only because they are looking at Clubs who actually win the competition.

06 Nov 2014 08:07:04
Ed and Chris, I agree with your comments. Maribor are a perfect example. They only had 1000 fans watch them last weekend, the average plates wage is 10,000 euro a month (£8000) yet they have got some very good players there. There are lots of teams competing in the CL and EL who generate less income but who manage to retain players on half the money we pay them. What I don't know however is the amount of debt these clubs carry? Ed do you know how much debt Olympiakos or Basle carry just as an example because you are spot on, smaller teams are still doing it in Europe.

{Ed007's Note - They must be being run within FFFP regs or they would be sanctioned or punished.}

I didn't know Emerson Lake and Palmer had their own teams lol .

Mrs E I agree. The reality of the situation with EPL is that the league is just a bumper pay day and many players who participate in don't care about winning trophies, just want to rapidly increase their bank balance.

Said it before SKY TV has totally killed the game. Many clubs in that league are operating outwith their financial capabilities and are just as bad as Rangers.

It would be interesting to see if say UEFA brought in a salary cap system like that in operation in USA for all european teams, would these players still use celtic as a stepping stone to EPL or would their focus be on winning trophies

06 Nov 2014 14:44:00
ED, when I ask about debt levels I am not suggesting MMDL (manky mob debt levels). These smaller teams like Basle, Olympiakos, Malmo, Stau Bucharest etc are regulars in CL and EL and maybe even have less income than us. When we had Martin o'neil I believe we were running with debts of about £12mill? May be wrong but we were in debt but not enough to make it terminal for us. Just wondered if all of the above smaller teams stayed in the black as we do? You know European football better than any of us so just a question for your super dooper brain?

{Ed007's Note - Maribor are debt free, they nearly went to the wall in 2007 over being 4 million Euros, Zlatko Zahovic took over running the club and the debt was finally paid off in 2011, during that period - 2007-20011 - Maribor never finished above third place in the Slovenian league.
Olympiakos are part of the GRECCE DEBT FREE movement so I will assume they are debt free or at least have a small amount.
FC Basel are one of the best ran clubs in Europe who have doubled their over the last 4 years to circa 52 million Euros and with £32m in equitythey could go two or three years without Champions League and get by with money in the bank. Basel only need EL qualification every season to break even.}

Total agreement with you guys, we have to look at getting in front of teams like Basle and Maribor and become regular qualifiers to the groups. It's got hee-haw to do with liking English football, we know we can never compete with them financially. Some people seem to think if you're not competing with the English you might as well give up. From small acorns grow big oaks. Atletico showed everyone last year what a team can do with the right manager and spending wisely. What kind of wages do Atletico pay ed? i'm sure I read they were paying players the same as the English Championship.

{Ed007's Note - Atleticos annual wage bill last season was 66m Euros (£54m) and their average weekly wage was around the £30k-32k.}

Mrs E . With the amount of coverage of the Epl on TV it's very difficult for us to avoid seeing it . Maybe if the Scottish and the two Irish Associations insisted on a total Black out of the Epl within the areas within their leagues, we would appreciate our teams better and have an even spread of TV revenue .
The EPL, sky and Bbc put on virtual wall to wall coverage of the English game for us but not for the benefit of Scottish Football. I would have nothing against the EPL, if it stopped draining money out of Irish and Scottish Leagues.

{Ed007's Note - It's a pointless comparison though, Chris. We got put out the CL by Legia and Maribor, what's that got to do with how much Man City or Chelsea spend? We weren't playing against Man City or Chelsea. It's just an excuse that's threw about to cover our own failings.
If you are racing two Ford Focus' what difference does it make what speed a Ferrari can go?}

06 Nov 2014 17:13:55
ED thanks for the excellent information on the finances of the smaller European teams. Think it says it all. Brings it into perspective really. You are correct, we all fall into the we can't compete because of the money trap. That may be correct if we compare ourselves to Real Madrid or Chelsea etc, but what is our excuse against the teams we are up against in our EL group? Apart from Red Bull, we have as much income as the other 2 teams. Let's see how we do tonight against a much smaller team than us. This should be a walk over really but let's see?

{Ed007's Note - No worries, Johnny. (yes)

The point I am trying to make is that we are over exposed to the EPL with nothing in it for us . I am quite proud of our achievements against the Epl teams over the years . As you say we become a cropper too often against teams that we don't need to play away above our ability to beat .
Too many of our own seem to be comparing us and our efforts to highlights of Epl football . Football unfortunately is a business and no other business would allow as easy access to competitors as we, the Scottish football authorities .

Firstly, I've no idea where 'ELP' came from but you get the gist.

I'm not making the comparison soley to English Clubs but Maribor are no different to us, they got a better 1 goal result on the night - let's not turn this into something it just isn't.

Yes, English Clubs are quite reliant on TV cash but there's a few of them could well and truly hold their own if it was reduced. A lot of German, Spanish Clubs etc get money from sponsorship but this is high due to coverage of where its seen eg. on telly. Real Madrid and Barcelona shamelessly parade their brand all over the world to generate cash and the rest aren't far at their back. Germany do seem to have the right idea with the 50 + 1 but we'll just no bother mentioning their 80m population, England and Scotland are nowhere near this and that's combined.

Dortmund's ground holds over 80,000, Bayern over 70,000, Schalke 04 over 78,000 etc, etc and dare say there are some with 20,000 but you can see where i'm coming from. Other than Bayern, I would not say German teams are consistent. David Moyes gave Bayer Leverkusen a lesson last season in Germany, David Moyes.

Basel have done well in the past decade or so, there's no argument and could go on and maybe win the Europa League. But its never going to be the Champions League, they to only make up the numbers and to be fair, have gained a lot of respect and are not be underestimated. But that was never going to be enough for us and we do have some fans with a horrible sense of entitlement.

If we want to be like Basel, fair enough - I could handle that, not sure everyone else could as I don't speak for them, but where do you go from there?

I'm totally disillusioned with the money involved in sport these days and I get you guys what to be optimistic about it and the Financial fair Play are going to get these club telt, but I would not hold my breath - waste of time. Its going to take something else but not sure what.

I watched the St Johnstone v Motherwell game last Friday night and I swear it was like watching junior football - anyone else see it? It was dire and this tripe is our competition.

05 Nov 2014 16:54:50
This will be an important January window for us. This is the time when one of they marquee signs would come in handy and keep us one step ahead of sevco. And also old firm games died when they died.

I agree Matty, not just for the game against 'them'. I hope Ronny is allowed to buy 2 or 3 players he really wants, he has the rest of the season to bed them in and we can hopefully be ready for the qualifiers next year. If we buy in the summer we will be back in transition. AGAIN! They say January isn't a good window to buy. I think it's perfect for celtic. Markie

Hopefully Guidetti. And an experienced CB for good measure.

Was never a fan of "old firm", it just associated us with them a bit too much. The game will be just as important as the others though Marty.

Getting Guidetti signed up would do for me . Of course we could strengthen many other areas, but I won't complain if we get Guidetti sorted out .

05 Nov 2014 16:16:45
Does anyone know how Danny Mcgrain is? I know he was ill a wee while ago. I haven't seen him in any celtic photos for a while, has he still got a coaching position at the club Ed? Markie

05 Nov 2014 15:42:38
ED007 any truth in the supposed interview that Guidetti did ruling out any permanent move to Celtic, or is it just either the media or his agent doing naughties?

{Ed007's Note - I've no idea what interview you're talking about, sorry, Tim.}

05 Nov 2014 16:22:23
ED007 I read an article on Newsnow Celtic purporting to be him or his agent talking to playing down a move to us

{Ed007's Note - All that is a hit-whoring website's version of this interview, Tim. While I remember, NEGunner (from the Arsenal site) was asking after you mate and sends his best wishes and he hopes your keeping well after your recent health problems.}

05 Nov 2014 17:27:04
ED007 thanks for posting the original interview, it will put a lot of Celtic fans mind at rest, mine's included.
Please thank NEGunner for the good wishes, I will go on to Arsenal site also and leave a thank you.
So many people on these sites have wished myself well (until I start posting my jokes lol)
On that subjest I hope Green Jhedi is continuing to recover well at home also

{Ed007's Note - Will do mate.}

ED, that interview is really refreshing and positive from wot seems like and genuine and down to earth guy.Not surprised after wot he's come through, I can see him staying awhile but the days of players staying @ Celtic for peanut wages ar Gone, and who would blame them.Will we ever c a Larsson type again?
Stay for 7 years earning less than circa 30 grand, which we don't pay.
I know your though s on the wage structure needs to change.
It's over to u PL.

05 Nov 2014 07:46:40
Morning ed001,
Use played well last nite, especially with so many changes
Very surprised.

{Ed001's Note - seriously? We were trounced by a team barely breaking sweat. No attempts to even try and attack them and yet they still cut us apart a ridiculous amount of times. When Madrid had double figures of shots before Liverpool even got their first shot (in the second half as well I might add!) it says a lot about the performance. Utter dross.}

05 Nov 2014 08:01:50
Only seen the highlights, but when I sceen all the changes, cricket score came to mind.
Lol

{Ed001's Note - it could have been one, Madrid barely tried mate. We never even had a single shot in the first half, it was so one sided.}

Liverpool are night and day compared to last season and although it can't be just down to Suarez leaving and Sturridge's injury - it's a huge factor.
BR could have spent the cash better with two top class players - rather than a handful of hopefuls, especially the enigma that is Balotelli, who in my opinion has yet to justify his football reputation or huge transfer fees.
When I saw the team last night, I thought he was thinking that the team have been very inconsistent all season and if his best 11 were hammered, it would destroy any confidence they had of turning things around for the domestic season?

{Ed001's Note - I just thought he had given up on a result before the game kicked off. If he sticks with those that performed better than the players they replaced from the weekend, then it will be a good decision. If he immediately reverts back to those that capitulated so humiliatingly against Newcastle, then he deserves the sack. Though I am not convinced that putting that team out to Madrid and spouting the crap he does in interviews shouldn't be a sackable offence!

For me, if you are managing a side in the Premier League and you have time to mess around on your missus having affairs, then you aren't devoting enough time to your job. You should never have any spare time as a manager. If you have ten minutes, you should be reviewing footage or statistical analysis of matches and/or training, watching footage of opponents or possible signings. Maybe review the training schedule or meeting with underperforming players to help them get back to form or discussing with your coaching staff how the tactics could be improved. There are so many things that require a manager's time, you really have to question any manager that isn't winning trophies but has the time to mess around on their wife.}

05 Nov 2014 12:19:14
ED001 yes I thought Brendan Rogers disrepected both the champions league AND Liverpool FC's great heritage in europe by leaving most of the big players out. He gave up before a ball was kicked and I felt sorry for the 4,000 Liverpool fans who must have spent hundreds going to Madrid only to see a virtual reserve team in their colours.
PS ED001 here is a poll suggestion
Would Celtic fans accept our manager playing a weakened team in the Champions League no matter the opposition or next game

{Ed001's Note - added that thanks Tim. Worst of it is the amount of Liverpool fans that are talking about how pleased they were with the performance! I think a lot of them must be so desperate for anything to hold onto this season that it is beginning to affect their eyesight!}

Have to agree ed. I've read how, in particular, Wenger and Pellegrini sit up all night analysing opponents. Now I understand there has to be a balance between work and social life (not that having affairs is correct) but that's why, when we were on the back of a pretty poor run, I was a bit miffed that RD had already had two holidays! It must have done somehing though. Perhaps he went to Burma, discovered his inner self, seeked enlightenment and finally decided to drop Ambrose!

{Ed001's Note - 2 holidays? Can you imagine Stein having two holidays? Or Shankly? Who took his missus to see a Huddersfield reserves game for her birthday!}

Deila hasn't had two holidays. One was an international break and if you listen to his interviews around that time you know he was at some matches, he was at the Scotland game so how's that a holiday watching his players play for Scotland.

Fair enough then if that was the case. The poor beggar just having the one holiday a couple months in.

{Ed007's Note - I'd hardly call nipping back to Norway for a couple of days to see his young teenage daughters during international breaks a 'holiday'. All of this was explained by RD himself back in August.}

05 Nov 2014 15:54:45
@jimtim, get a hold of yourself. You don't have any idea what he is doing when he is away from Glasgow. He can just as easily analyse teams on video in Norway as he can do in Glasgow? Are you saying because he is Celtic manager he can't leave the training ground? He has coaches in place to look at the under 20's squad and first team players who are not on international duty. I am not his biggest fan but don't be on his back for the sake of it. Ridiculous statement.

I'm not on his back for the sake of it. Anything but. I don't know what he's doing every hour of every day no. Do you? I'd heard he had two holidays. On here. Sorry if I was incorrect. Nobody seemed to put the story straight at the time.

05 Nov 2014 18:47:40
@jimtim, no I don't know what he is doing every hour of the day not do you, but it's not me that's complaining about his holidays or comparing him to other managers who according to some newspaper are up all night looking at videos. If he has had a break from football good luck to him!

05 Nov 2014 04:34:53
Is there a reason we don't have an option of putting a pic to out profiles on here Edd? I'm not complaining, just wondered if there was a reason for it? Markie

{Ed001's Note - in what way do you mean Markie? On the profiles itself? If so, we just haven't got round to doing that as all the techy stuff is done by one man, Ed033, and he has been busy working on the new game we put into a beta test a couple of days ago. I will have a word with him about making sure a profile pic gets bumped up his to do list in terms of priorities, if that is what you are referring to.}

05 Nov 2014 00:30:41
good question in the poll today but really has to be just one answer. definitely would be worth breaking the wage budget for if it even comes to that

if we look at it this way we pay man city compensation of say 500k and if we were to get him on 30k a week over 4 years is something like 6 million

if we wernt to sign him it would take a sizeable fee just to get someone with that quality in without even mentioning wages on top of that