Celtic Banter Archive June 05 2012

05 Jun 2012 20:17:15
Hi Guy's

Gers fan here, just looking for your thoughts.

What would you suggest be a proper punishment for Rangers.

I know some of you will say...finish them off for good,that's fair enough if that's what you think, as some on the Gers site would say the same if the shoe was on the other foot.

Would Celtic and Scottish football prosper without Rangers?
I honestly don't know.

As i said...just wondering if you have a punishment in mind that you would see as fair, or is it really you're wish that Rangers disappear for good?

If it is, i don't have a problem with that, at least it's your honest oppinion. {Ed007's Note - I suggested this the other day:

{Ed007's Note - Unless an Oligarch finds out there is oil under Murray Park and swoops in to save the day, and the WORST case scenario I think Rangers should be liquidated. The assets sold off to pay every penny of debt (or as much as is raised goes on debts) from the bottom up. Pay all the local businesses, football clubs etc and HMRC get what is left, anything over that can go on Zombie Rangers. Under a five year 'probation', let them straight back into the SPL with a 15 point deduction which goes down 3 points every season if they meet certain conditions. All accounts are signed off and lodged in time for 5 years, all bills and players wages must be paid on time along with all taxes etc. The club can only spend what is made in profit, on outward transfers or is 'cleanly' invested, the club can not borrow over a set amount from banks etc and that can that only be borrowed over a season, basically they start every season with a clean financial slate, within reason (being £200k in debt isn't that serious really) or go back to the 15 point deduction mark at the start of the season(or maybe a Euro ban if applicable??). If Rangers keep up their part of the deal they will be back on an even keel after 5 years, everyone has been paid, and Rangers will be able to say they worked to get themselves out of the mess the hard way. That is probably miles out but you did ask and I am sitting bored, and it is as a worst case scenario like losing the BTC and that level of projected debt. What do you think should happen?}

Honestly ed see if rangers done that i would give them the credit (pardon the pun)

really tho its the BTC that will kill them off & the people at the bottom of the list get nothing

lenny

Ed, i would agree with what you said. that should be the way foward as well if the double contracts is true they should have titles striped(dosnt have to go to any team but i would like the other clubs, not just Celtic, to get reconized for what could have been in thier history). However i think a 5 year or so band from europe should also be part of the punishment so that the other clubs could have a go at it since they should have had more expirence and money from that, which would have helped Scottish football evolve to better quality and clubs.

I don't really think it matters what Celtic fans want, Rangers fans should be more concerened with the reality of what will happen.

The season starts 8 weeks this coming weekend and the following needs to be sorted.

1. A new owner needs to be found. There are serious doubts as to whether Green, the preferred bidder, can deliver. He is certainly been secretive with information.

2. It is a certainty Green wants a newco rather than a successful CVA. He is wasting time having to go down the CVA route, but must do so to fool the gullible Rangers fans. This is wasting time.

3. The Blue Knights have not gone away. They are still there in the background. The reason they failed to bid more than £2m for Rangers was because the also want a newco, despite what they said publicly. They will try to get a position once it is publicly accepted that a CVA cannot be achieved.

4. There will be other parties who will come to the table once the CVA has failed who will also want a newco. All this new interest will cause further delays.

5. In all of this there is still the Big Tax Case.

6. There is the dual contracts to be sorted, which is a seperate issue to EBTs (although linked to the EBTs). THIS IS THE MOST SERIOUS ISSUE FACING RANGERS.

7. Ticketus have not gone away. Expect them to make a fresh attack.

8. The current disrepute charge that is, or may, go back to the Appellate Tribunal.

9. Players walking away. Their contracts state that if Whyte is still the owner when the transfer window opens (which he will be), then they can walk away for NOTHING.

10. Whytes floating charge still exists despite what the administrators say publicly. They acknowledge the floating charge in the CVA proposal.

11. The money is runnig out to run the club on a day to day basis.

12. Doubts over how many season tickets sales there will be. No renewals have been issued yet.

Based on the above, Rangers will be lucky if they are playing at all next season. How would you propose sorting all this out in 8 weeks.

But even if they manage to sort this mess out, the dual contracts could make sure they are not playing at all next season. The dual contracts is a far, far more serious offence that the current bringing the game into disrepute. It is financial doping on an industrial scale for 10 years to gain a financial and sporting advantage.

K-Dot.

IMO Gers will get hit with the BTC just before season starts.Green will pull out of the deal,club will fold and players leave.Club will say they can't fulfill fixtures so they will lose their membership and then i think they will return to Division 3 next season.That means there won't be a Rangers but new club will have a year to get everything in place to start again.HMRC will be the ones to get the blame.

Jungle Bhoy.

Human sacrifice.

Hi Ed

It was me that posted the original question.
Don't have a problem at all with what you suggested, except one thing ,which i must admit, i thought would appear.

What if Rangers done exactly as you suggest, except they don't go straight into the SPL, BUT THE BOTTOM DIVISION.
That is what i think should happen, so do you just want them there for the benefit of sponsorship and finance for the other teams, + TV deals etc.

As i said, i agree with you, but added to your suggestion, let's drop to the bottom division as well.
I can't say fairer than that. {Ed007's Note - Would anyone actually gain anything from Zombie Rangers starting in the lower league when the mechanism is there for their straight re-entry into the SPL? I don't want 'Rangers' to die, I never have, just a few years of gloating will do me fine, as long as the debts are paid, especially the full amount to small businesses and football clubs. The tax problems are outwith football's control, all they can do is punish them the same as any team under the same circumstances i.e. non-payment of taxes. Until there is a ruling on the BTC Rangers can only be punished for what they have been found guilty of. The legal route was a big mistake IMO. It's FIFA/UEFA's ball, play by the rules or face the wrath, Rangers agreed to all their statutes and then broke them.}

Ed ur the man on here, but as a gers man myself, green + co would never accept that , suddenly newco appears.... i have been worried , am worried and nearly need my babys pampers whats coming next....
craig+babybear {Ed007's Note - It was just a suggestion mate, keep your kecks clean lol. On a serious note, it needs to finish and SOON! For everyone involved, it's ridiculous it has went on this long without Rangers moving forward in any significant way. I am not too sure about this latest rumour about the £78/80 million from the BTC. The administration has been the strangest I have ever known in, or out, of football. Look at the recent collapse of Clinton's? A couple of people I know worked for them, they went from going into administration to being out of a job in the space of 3/4 weeks, yet Rangers have done nothing to save money, absolutely nothing.}

Ed I'm sure the players that took a 75 per cent pay cut would disagree, totally agree with trying to pay of our debts, can't understand why the outstanding transfer fees due to rangers could not be paid to the football side of the debt not ideal but a start, even the tax thing if approached in a sensible manner could be structured in a way that it is paid in full over a set number of years, but you must want this and something tells me Mr Green isn't in this for brownie points {Ed007's Note - It is nothing to do with the player's, if they could have got a pay off, signed and played for another club they would have been off. I think a lot of Rangers fans would be upset if they knew the attitude some of their 'heroes' took with the club in January. That doesn't take away from the complete ineptitude of the administrators to do their job correctly though. There has been no forward movement whatsoever and the club is still haemorrhaging money. All the while there does not appear to have any visible source of income that is helping the overall situation. D&P's administration has been a circus and a shambles since day one. No other company would have been allowed to carry on trading under the same circumstances.}

05 Jun 2012 20:00:47
I'm shocked at the amount of people wanting a forward and midfeilder as a prority, we need a quality centre back before any other position in my opinion.

Nah 1st man to sign is a good GK.

boruc/gordon/forster

dont care which one but need one

lenny

Goalkeeper should be first priority. Not only do we not have a quality keeper (I rate Zaluska but he couldn't handle the pressure when Boruc left) but we don't have reliable backup even if we give Zaluska the number 1 as Dom Cervi left recently (Robbie Thompson is 4th choice but probably too raw and inexperienced to have as a number 2 unless he's the Scottish David De Gea).

CB needed, preferably a natural leader like John Terry or Richard Dunne (but who's actually likely to join!). Loovens and Majstorovic off, Rogne injury prone. Kelvin Wilson didn't cut the mustard although I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt as it was his first season, he started well, and he had a few injuries which I reckon affected his end of season form.

Striker needed. We need someone who plays a similar type of game to Jelavic, Dzeko, Crouch, Jones etc. Wiry target man type but decent on the deck as we play a passing and link up type game.

After that I don't care but a bit more experience in the middle of the park wouldn't go amiss.

05 Jun 2012 14:05:18
After someone earlier wrote about the Record, I decided to make a rare trip to the website, where I found today's news about Thommo was that he "went on one drinking session too many". Now, this is quite clearly the Record stirring things up again, describing Thommo as "Boozy". Personally, I think this should be reported as alcoholism is an illness, I would like to see them use such informal and flippant language describing someone with Cancer or any other illness. Once again, the Daily Rcord is showing it's true blue colours. It quotes a "Celtic insider", effectively saying that it made the quotes up. Since they re not allowed to misquote, they put no name to this "source". Complete and utter nonsense once again from the DR.

Danjam

Danjam

With all due respect, I don't think that the DR or any of us should be making any comments on this matter.

You are very correct in saying that alcoholism is an illness, but I'm sure that you have no information that would allow you to come to to the view that Alan Thompson is suffering from it.

This is something that is best left alone.

K-Dot.

Good original post but K-Dot is spot on. Sopot Celt

05 Jun 2012 11:28:17
Countdown to end game:

Almost four months after the club plunged into administration, there is a sense the crisis at Rangers is now approaching the endgame.
The next fortnight, indeed, could be among the most important periods in the 140-year history of the Ibrox club. Key issues relating to the future ownership and form of Rangers, the deepening dispute with the SFA and the potentially explosive investigation into dual contract allegations will all be addressed in the coming two weeks.
Here, Sportsmail casts its eye over some of the key dates for this stricken giant of the game. More questions than answers:
Prospective
Rangers owner Charles Green is due to meet the fans on Wednesday, June 6 (part 1)
The Rangers Fans Fighting Fund have asked to meet with prospective owner Charles Green.
Why it's important...
Fans have become increasingly concerned about the lack of clarity surrounding Green's consortium, both in terms of the financial methods being used and the men providing the cash.
A meeting has been sought to demand answers.
If those are not forthcoming, then the influential RFFF will not be in a position to recommend that fellow supporters make season-ticket
purchases.
That would potentially squeeze a £17million revenue stream of front-loaded money for the consortium headed by the former Sheffield
United chief executive.
Green originally stated his group numbered around 20 interested parties, but has since said that only 'five or six' have put forward cash.
We want answers:
Fans concerned about clarity Indonesian businessman Jude Allen and Middle Eastern lawyer Mazen Housammi have been named as members of his Sevco group. The RFFF also want to hear details of Green's financial plans after some supporters were alarmed when the CVA proposal revealed the £8.5m being put forward was a loan to be repaid with interest by 2020.
The supporters' wariness is more than justified after the carnage inflicted by Craig Whyte and details of whether Green feels he will be able to
keep the current squad together will also be sought.
Wednesday, June 6 (part 2)
The SFA hierarchy meets to consider the Rangers situation.
Why it's important...
The legal victory secured by Rangers last week could ultimately lead to a greater punishment for the club. The SFA decided not to appeal the decision of the Court of Session, which ruled that a Judicial Panel did not have the power to hand down a 12-month transfer embargo after finding
Rangers guilty of disrepute charges.

The matter has now been returned to the Appeals Tribunal for consideration within the narrower range of sanctions - including suspension or termination of SFA membership -they can now apply to Rangers.
Hampden insiders claim the only way to prevent the Tribunal from sitting is for Rangers to back down and accept the original year-long transfer embargo. Green, though, could yet try to table some form of attempted compromise to head off a doomsday scenario.
Friday, June 8
The earliest date the Appeals Tribunal could sit, although the following week seems more likely.
Why it's important...
This could be one of the most pivotal moments in the entire Ibrox crisis. Headed by Lord Carloway, the three-man Tribunal will consider what - if any - additional sanction should be applied alongside the maximum £100,000 fine Rangers have already been hit with for the actions of Craig Whyte's shamed tenure.
Can Rangers weather the storm?
Fears have been expressed that, with FIFA watching, the Tribunal could be backed into a corner whereby issuing only a more stringent punishment than the transfer ban - a suspension or termination of SFA membership - is deemed appropriate.
A Scottish Cup ban is another penalty at their disposal.
Clearly, the impact of Rangers being kicked out of the game for any period would be seismic.
Saturday, June 9
Official opening of the transfer window.
Why it's important...
Seven first-team players - Allan McGregor, Steven Whittaker, Dorin Goian, Steven Davis, Maurice Edu, Steven Naismith and Kyle Lafferty
- had reduced-fee release clauses inserted into their contracts when accepting temporary 75 per cent wage cuts to sustain the club until the
end of the season. Contract clause: Allan McGregor could be one of the first to leave
Those clauses became active last Friday, when the players returned to full pay. Edu can go for £300,000, while Naismith and McGregor are the most expensive at £2m apiece.
Rumours abound of those who might be open to leaving, but that will depend on any forthcoming offers. As with so much in this sorry saga, manager Ally McCoist will be left without a say if bids hit the target figures.
Tough job: Rangers manager Ally McCoist
Thursday, June 14
Creditors meeting to vote on the CVA proposal.
Why it's important...
Provided Green has lodged the further monies required with Duff & Phelps by this date, the creditors will vote on whether to accept his proposal that would see them pocket less than 10p in the pound.
A 75 per cent majority based on a vote per pound of debt basis is required to pass the proposal. HMRC and Ticketus dominate the picture.
If both agree, there is nothing the smaller creditors can do to stop the CVA.
If either rejects the proposal, then it falls.
An acceptance of the CVA would trigger a 28- day cooling-off period before agreement of the creditors was ratified and Rangers could exit
administration. Should the CVA fail, then Green has a £5.5m newco agreement in place with Duff & Phelps.
Monday, June 18
SPL board meeting to discuss dual contract allegations.
Why it's important...
Rangers forwarded paperwork relating to their operation of Employee Benefit Trusts to the SPL last week - three months after the documents
had been requested. The top flight's lawyers are probing whether those payments should have been detailed within the contract documents lodged with both them and the SFA.
They will update board members on their progress on this date. The dual contract allegations carry potentially huge ramifications if proven - and could even lead to consideration of past trophies being struck from the record.


hail hail

Marco1888

05 Jun 2012 11:47:31
Big rumours today that Lennon ready to stand down due to personal reasons a replacement has already been sounded out (Benitez with Steve Clarke) don't shoot the messenger.......jiggythetim HH

Why would rafa bring in steve clarke? he's never worked with him before, surely he would want his own people with him

Where are these big rumours ?.....DH

Can't see it happening, potential champions league campaign for Lennon, wouldn't have sacked Thompson the other day if he was standing down. johnbhoy79

I really dont see this. i think he is the man for the job but with all that he had to deal with, i could see him wanting to try somewhere else but i think he still wants to bring alot more success to Celtic. Ed have you any info or heard anything of Lennon steping down? {Ed007's Note - I haven't heard anything about it. Do you think NL would sack his best friend if he was intending leaving?}

I'm sad that thommos departure has ended up messy, but I am glad in a way that he's gone, we need an experienced number 2 in beside Lenny, someone who can control him, and be a tactician ,would help Lenny become a great manager, having best mates isn't always the best idea beside you, for me stevie Clarke or John Collins would be ideal in beside Neil,
Ska bhoy

Thats why i was asking you ed because i found it to wierd if he fired him and then step down. do you think they are on bad terms? dont like the sound of a lawsuite.

However i see this as Lennon trying to improve and change his ways to be a better manager and bring a new look on himself and Celtic. I found that this season he has improved sooo much from his first one and i think he is going to continue to improve himself to a good manager. He is intellegent and i think he is working on calming down with his temper and so if thats the case, letting go Thomson is a hard one for him to make but the right one if he wasnt going to be/willing to change and be on same page.
Canuck Bhoy {Ed007's Note - If it ends up in court it won't turn into a mudslinging match, that would only be done through the media. It will only determine whether CFC were within their rights to take the course of action they did.}