Celtic Banter Archive September 29 2014

 

Use our rumours form to send us celtic transfer rumours.

29 Sep 2014 22:27:36
Rangers will be turning in there grave after that result.

Believable3 Unbelievable0

Was in the cinema and ventured into to goose for a cheap vodka for the train home. Gargoyles with furrowed brows loomed at every corner and I found it hilarious. I said bet rhey lost aplenty. said to her bet they got grubberd. Checked the score and god almighty I was on the money. Better drink up before i'm sniffed out. If you could view this you would silently stitch your sides.

Agree2 Disagree0

29 Sep 2014 21:58:40
We can only thank the lord that we don't have to contend with Hibernian in the SFL!

Believable0 Unbelievable0

29 Sep 2014 20:48:14
Ed since I value your opinion and I posted about RD if successful. If the oppsite happens and he only wins the league and fails to get to CL next season at what point would you say he should be sacked.Is 2 CL campaigns ok to miss? (40 m).Or do we wait for the 3rd? (60M).Not to mention all the values of the players go much higher due to participation in the CL. So a manager might cost us 40 to 60m depending when we sack him.

Believable0 Unbelievable3

{Ed007's Note - What's the benchmark? NL only won the Scottish Cup in his first full season and didn't deliver any European football, he also survived no CL football for the first two seasons of his tenure, did you want him sacked in 2011 or 2012, I know I didn't, I was willing to give him time. Do you think last season's display in the Nou Camp added anything to the value of our players? You're saying playing in the CL is more important than a player's ability when it comes to their selling valuation, what about Ryan Gauld?
You're judging RD on the strength of 14 games, what's so different from RD's start than NL's? We've got European football, progressed in the LC (Morton last year?) and the league will be a formality. We've got a new manager and a lot of new players trying to settle into a new club, a new country and new culture, why should he be treated any different or not given the same chances that NL was?
Having Scott Brown back in the team will make all the difference to the team, if he hadn't been injured I honestly believe we would be playing in the CL this season, he's the only player we have who can drive the team on and isn't scared to dish out a rollicking if people aren't pulling their weight.}

I asked a hypothetical question you chose not to answer fair enough, but what has NL got t do with the question?

Agree0 Disagree2

{Ed007's Note - He was our previous manager, who else did you expect me to compare him to, Sam Allardyce? I asked what the benchmark is, what should I use as a gauge of how long he should get, cup wins? unbeaten runs? winning the league? European results? You can't ask any old vague question that pops into your head and then moan when I answer it. We had Wim Jansen for a year, Joe Venglos for a year, Dalglish and Barnes for a year so why shouldn't RD get the same?
As NL was obviously sent down from Heaven so he's special now and we'll stop comparing our last manager and our new one shall we? Who will we compare him to? The £800k a year Slug slithering through Ibrox, what about Alex Neil at Hamilton?
Are you just pi$$ed off that NL left with 6/7 months of your calendar not used?

Nice Ed. Nice. NL is the obvious benchmark when asked the question YOU were asked. So far, so good for RD really. However, CL qualification next year is a bit of a must for me. Totally (as sad as it is) agree that Brown was a loss this year, as he was last year, he genuinely improves the standard of the team by at least two-fold.

I'll ask you this though Ed, and promise to appreciate an answer when I ask you: what now, would you consider a success for RD this season? For me, it would be the league, obviously, one domestic cup and qualification from the EL groups. Anything he manages to influence behind the scenes would be a bonus. Domestic treble?; I'd love it but don't demand it. Takes more luck then class winning a treble.

Agree1 Disagree1

{Ed007's Note - I'd be delighted with the league, a cup and progression through the EL group - absolutely delighted. A minimum for me would be the league and a cup and not being embarrassed in the EL groups. For the record I do think we'll qualify from the EL group, Thursday's game is crucial but if we take 3 points we're jamming. I will also be looking for an improvement in the playing style when I'm judging RD's season, I'm not just blindly backing the guy but I think come the end of May a lot of people will have changed their opinion. The methods he uses are light years ahead of anything else in Scotland, probably even at SFA standard, and puts us on a par with clubs whose systems we have admired for years. One other thing RD is doing, and I have mentioned this a few times on here, is that we will be playing the same system in the domestic league and in Europe, there will be no serious tactical changes from Saturday/Sunday to Thursday, all it will only be will be tweaked to counter the opposition, we will not be looking to change the whole system or tactics on a game by game basis. The more you play a system the better you get at it and other teams need to counter your system. I've always believed that we should be using the domestic league to perfect our playing style for Europe, not many teams at that level change their gameplan so dramatically as we have over the years, even the other so called CL 'minnows'.
How come nobody else has picked up on Gordon's mistakes at the weekend? If he does that on Thursday and costs us will that be RD's fault as well? It was Gordon's mistake that put us under pressure against St Mirren, without that it would have been a boring 2-0 win without setting the park alight, the type of result and performance NL was grinding out for months, maybe even years.}

30 Sep 2014 00:22:04
Ed,its a results bisness,i haven't backed,ronny(the mesiah to work his miracles) head says he deserves time,but u no us fans ar fickle, maybe give him a season an see wot he does,but I don't honestly think the board will back him,reguarding signing Loan players,keeping the quality we Hav.So if it works out for him wi his players and style,lawell will see pound signos.

Agree2 Disagree0

Playing the same system week in week outers, I agree with that Ed, but RD does'nt play the same players week in week out not alone the the same system, as for Gordon, yes he did make a mistake, I think he slipped when he was throwing the ball out, can happen to the best of goalkeepers.ask Rough, Hart, James, Leighton, and all the other ones I can't remember, but as far as I am concerned he is much better goalkeeper than Foster, who I am sure, you coould highlight his mistakes if you wanted to.

Agree0 Disagree1

{Ed007's Note - I can't see any slip, once again you can see his terrible habit of parrying the ball back into the danger area. I said before that would cost us, it nearly did on Saturday but it will at some point. It was Gordon's mistakes that piled pressure on RD this weekend, leaving St Mirren Park with a scrappy 2-0 win and a clean sheet would have been acceptable to most supporters, it was hardly RDs fault Gordon made an ar$e of it.



I know Fraser Forster made mistakes (young GK's usually do) but NL never took pelters when he made any so why is Gordon any different? Everybody is moaning about RD when it was really Gordon who put the team under pressure on Saturday.}

It was a mistake, he was throwing the ball out and he slipped and the ball did'nt go where he intended, it was'nt a parry, what's age got to with it?or experience?give him a break, if he had'nt been so good good in the last 4 or 5 games RD 's position might have been a lot more shaky.

Agree0 Disagree1

{Ed007's Note - You would think if he slipped it would be on that video. If you can't see him parrying the ball in that video I suggest a visit to a GP immediately never mind an optician! If you don't know what age has to do with anything it's not up to me to tell you, why not just play a team of 19 year olds every week?}

From what i've heard, Celtic had two shots at goal, and you think that Gordon making one slip in goal is what put RD under pressure, me and you will have to agree to disagree Ed, night.

Agree0 Disagree1

{Ed007's Note - From what you've heard, did you not see the game? How do you know Gordon slipped? We were 1-0 up and Gordon's mistakes cost us a goal to make it 1-1 each, on what planet is that RD's fault rather than Gordon's?
You can disagree with people and opinions but you can't disagree with facts.}

This is all what if?

If St Mirren hadn't scored it would have stayed the dull 1-0 as Ronny wouldn't have switched to a 4-4-2.

Jeezo, we seem to be making stuff up as we go along now and making assumptions based on our own imaginations.

Agree1 Disagree0

ED, this slagging of Gordon all the time has to stop. You say his bad throw and parry put the pressure on RD, What about his saves against Red Bull Saltzberg, the pressure would have definately been on RD if we came home after getting gubbed 5 or 6 - 2. All keepers are prone to the odd mistake, the throw out was poor as he did not connect with a celtic player, but I still feel the "parry" was a good save. Hail Hail

Agree0 Disagree0

{Ed007's Note - What about Gordon's mistake against Maribor that cost us CL football? How can a good save cost a goal, that doesn't even make any sense!}

Ta Ed. Totally agree about keeping the system domestically and in Europe. That's why, against people on here saying we should play two out and out strikers. I'd like a 4-2-3-1 with wing forwards capable of scoring. As for Gordon, I agree to. He's made as many mistakes as good saves. Forster is at this moment a better and younger keeper in my eyes.

Agree0 Disagree0

I agree that Ronnie needs time . When he came here he promised us many things. I appreciate it takes time to join everything together . However he spoke eloquently about attractive attacking football. When can we expect to see any glimpses of this football.

Agree0 Disagree0

I am quietly confident that RD will bring the good times back to Celtic. Once the players are fully fit, well drilled in diet and tactics then I can only see positive's for years to come.

The football is poor at the moment, no one denies this, but the most important thing is we are still close to the top whilst not playing well.

For me a success is winning the league and basically using this year as a Work in Progress for getting the style of play perfected. Cup wins would be a bonus, the Europa League should be used as experience in what to expect for next years qualifiers in Champs Lge.

I think we should ensure Wakaso and Guidetti are signed permanently both are exciting. Scepovic will need to work on his Physical element and I feel that he really needs more game time especially with him probably being the man up top on Thursday.

In relation to comparing managers, the money spent by RD is dwarfed by that of the previous few regime's! Do you know of any reasons for this ed? Can it be that RD wanted to see what this squad had to offer and come December will look to move some on and replace?

Agree0 Disagree1

See all this slating RD and more of less looking for bookies tips as to if/when he will get sacked has got out of control. You have really stooped to the lowest of the low with your resentment/hatred for RD.

We all get that you have a soft spot for lennon and had the attitude that you didn't care about quality of team on pitch, as long as lennon was in charge. Your not the only one who cannot see the state he has left club in.

RD is doing his best, with virtually no money to spend (apart from
Scepovic) to try correct mess left by lennon.

Agree0 Disagree0

30 Sep 2014 18:01:19
Dn30,u Told me u didn't hate lennon, y are u assuming we hate roony,its all about opinións ,u Were very vocally bout Lennon,to an extent hated him.What ronny says and Does don't install confidence in me,never mins the Team.Other than this scientific stuff people Keep going on about,the club wasnt left in a mess,like u say.

Agree0 Disagree1

Just seen CG Maribor goal again there on tv not a chance did he have to readjust his feet!

Lennon left a much better team thanks the one he inherited which at the end of the day it is all that you can really ask of any manager!

Agree0 Disagree0

{Ed007's Note - So why's he standing in no man's land watching as the ball breaks away from the goal? If he had taken even one step back to get back in position he would have had a better chance of stopping the ball, it's basic goalkeeping to know what position you take up, you don't just stand watching the ball. The reason he didn't have a chance to readjust is because he was so far out of position off his line, why is he not closer to the goal-line when he has no chance of getting the ball at any time leading up to the deflected shot. The ball is bobbling about near the penalty spot and he is standing off his line watching it.}

Its not often that a new manager takes over a club, champions for the previous three years in a row .
Ronnie has taken on the task of bringing Celtic to a new level, I think if he gets a run of results the fans and the board will give him time to get his attractive attacking football going .

Agree0 Disagree0

I cannot believe this! Who is looking for bookies odds on when Ronny will be sacked and whilst we are at who made the you tube footage of Craig Gordon, I take it was a St Mirren fan with way too much time on their hands!

Fans who were fed up with the previous Manager, I assume they wanted better and now because we have big talk of diet all is ok? If I didn't know better I'd think it was April 1st, what is the Club - Weight Watchers!

Celtic have, if not, superior training facilities to Stomsgodset then just as good and probably decent diaticians, sports scientists etc. All this carry on with diet is nothing other that discipline and attitude of the player and manager. There's no doubting the previous Manager let discipline slip but I could only see it on the Park in their complacency.

Celtic played more games than any other team in Scotland and at a much higher level with the Champions League and that's before the International duty by most of them. But we are totally buying into this diet crap is this reason for the nonsense on offer against Legia Warsaw, Maribor, Dundee, ICT, Motherwell and let's be honest the other games v St Mirren, St Johnstone and Aberdeen were anything but encouraging. Incidentally the Dundee Utd game - 4 of the goals came from set pieces and all 6 from poor defending which Dundee Utd learned from and haven't played that badly since. We have learned nothing. Before anyone starts its just an observation and I'm taking nothing away from the Dundee Utd game, it was the best this season.

I really want Ronny to be a success just like I wanted every Manager before him to be a success but I will continue to watch his progress and comment (good and bad) as to me he is still relatively unknown and was that highly regarded he wasn't Celtic's first choice.

He overhauled Stromsgodset that much they are sitting 4th in the league and 19 points behind the league leaders, the Club also never got past the 2nd qualifying round of the CL - hardly enough evidence that he's going to be magic at Celtic.

One of his quotes that's a worry is this:-

Deila himself says he was influenced by current England boss Roy Hodgson, who managed him at Viking in 2005 'Hodgson is one of the coaches that taught me a lot about organising a team' said Deila.

Personally I don't rate Hodgson at all.

Agree0 Disagree0

Mrs E, remember Rd no longer works at Stromsgodset. He turned them from relegation battlers to champions. That's massive.

You say you hope is a success but then slag off his achievements?

Agree0 Disagree0

Sorry Ed, to explain I had'nt seen the game when I started my speel, but then the highlights showing the goals, came on the tv when I was posting, my look at it was that Gordons hand slipped when he was throwing the ball out, that's what I meant by slip, also I am, coincidently, going to the opticians on thursday.

Agree0 Disagree0

Kev, I said in another post:

'I don't really know what Ronny did at Stomsgodset other than be their Manager for 5/6 years and took them from battling relegation to League Champions last season which is fantastic. I do not know enough about the Norwegian league to comment and I do not know what long term changes he made at the Club either. What I do know is Stromsgodset are not in the Champions League or Europa League and they never made it past the early qualifying rounds. I am unsure why this means he will make changes at Celtic for the better, we were already Champions, not battling relegation and were playing the Champions League including the last 16 only recently. Ronny's job is to at least sustain this and hopefully improve'

Agree0 Disagree0

Well that got you all talking lol. Ed I thnk you are the only 1 that thinks Gordon made a mistake against Maribor no one else I spoke to or on here thinks so.If you lookin for blame see Izzy. Obv to me you made your mind up about him before we signed him. @DN your hatred for NL knows no bounds. Again you are the only 1 that thinks RD took over a worse mess than NL took over.

Agree0 Disagree0

{Ed007's Note - You need to keep an eye on you thinking things, your past record shows it's not your strong point. Most people I spoke to (including an ex-professional GK who has been kind enough to give me his opinion on Gordon after every game) blamed Gordon, but then again, they DO know what they're talking about.}

29 Sep 2014 20:37:30
seen pukki and fridjonson scored for od last night, fridjonsons goal was really well taken

Believable0 Unbelievable0

29 Sep 2014 15:44:08
On Saturday against St Mirren, Celtic had the following Subs, Zaluska, gk, Fisher, who could play right back instead of Iffy Ambrose, Bitton, midfielder, Kayal, midfielder, Berget, loan signing, who in my opinion is not good enough, Sceptovic, forward, who has done nothing yet to convince me why Celtic have bought him, hopefully he is saving a couple of goals for thursdays game against Dinamo Zagreb, and Tonev, who also done nothing yet in his loan deal, On Saturday once again Leigh Griffiths is ignored, where is the goal scorer in the subs mentioned, it is a disgrace that Ronny Deila, will not give Leigh Griffiths a chance, and please do not play him on the right wing, where he is not suited to play, he is a forward Ronny, he can score goals, he is a better forward than Stokes, and Izzaguire, and Ambrose are still not good enough this season, and Johansen, is also not playing well enough, and I Would like to see Henderson getting some games, because he can not play as badly as Johansen, and also young McGregor can not be expected to play as many games as he has without having a break for a couple of weeks he needs a rest.

Believable1 Unbelievable0

As for playing Griffiths over Stokes, I personally would. But there's probably a few reasons I'm not CFCs head coach, my wage demands being one of them ;) Seriously though, we can only hope RD has a good idea of which of these loan signings can and will be signed permanently. Thus adjusting his first XI accordingly.The priority for me would be Guidetti. He's got the pedigree, wanted him for a while. Wakaso is good and Denayer is very highly thought of. They need to win themselves that contract over the next few months though should they want it. Berget, can't say I was or have been impressed by his signiature, and Tonev, even at Villa, did next to nothing so jury is very much out on him too. We can argue about counter attack over dominant pressing play all day. We can argue about the physical benefits vs. psychological cons of strict diets all day. If you don't have the players, you don't have the players. Now matter how hard you buff sh!te it won't look like silver. Quite simply, I'm sure PL is very happy that any 'blame' or criticism atm is with RD. Because apart from the last minute deal for Guidetti (even that one was left far too late and will cost us in Europa Leage) - it was a howler of a transfer window in my eyes and again we seem to have paid less than we've brought in. The boards lack of ambition has been somewhat brushed under the rug of late.

Agree0 Disagree0

Realistically we have an EXTREMELY small chance of getting Guidetti however Denyar is never going to become permanent

Agree0 Disagree0

29 Sep 2014 15:05:59
A note to the 2 EDS

Why did Ronny make such a big play of getting in Jo Inge Berget?

Was that John park or was that all about RD?

If RD, what did he see JIB giving the group what others couldn't? What was it about JIB that resulted in RD going out to get him and then to play him in a starting eleven (with 10 others he didn't know anything about)

I would have more respect for RD if he was persevering with JIB but is it possible that JIB would have improved anything RD had in the past, but that RD has struggled to actually adapt to the higher pedigree of CFC versus Stromsgodset? IE what would have been a no brainer for Stromsgodset is not necessarily "fit for purpose" for CFC?

Arguing that RD's approach needs time is absolutely fine

Arguing that this is about a new vision is fine

Suggesting that we are light years behind and that RD's like can bring us in to the 21st century is also fine

But RD is not Paul Le Guen, PLG won the french league with unfancied Lyonnais and took them to the semi finals of the ECL and his management stock/pedigree at the time was sky high.

He may have the philosophy and the ideas but will he ever be the right man for a club of celtic's stature?

I think that is the question.


celtic are not stromsgodset

for all we know stromsgodset counter attacked their way to the norwegian championship. can that be expected to be replicated (let alone tolerated) at Celtic Park

is that not the big transition question.

the right "fit" for celtic?

Hmmmmmm

But I will back him .absolutely

Believable0 Unbelievable0

Simple answer for me is when your a new manager possibly getting resistance in the dressing room the best thing to do is bring someone in who you know will support your ideas, regardless if he any good or not.

Agree0 Disagree0

I personally believe RD has found himself in exactly the same situation as PLG. An up and coming European coach with good ideas and philosophy's who has run into a team full of prima donnas who don't think they need to change. He needs a few windows to get rid of the players unwilling to adapt to change and I firmly believe he will get it right.

Agree1 Disagree0

The problem is that it is players who get managers the sack and if not enough of them buy into his philosophy or strategy then he will be out before Christmas.
We are almost in October and are fourth in the league (never mind a game in hand) and have failed in BOTH attempts to qualify for the CL.
Players like Commons, Johansen, Efe and even VVD have been well below par and new arrivals like Berget, Scepovic and Tonev are struggling to establish themselves. Meanwhile,
Griffiths and Henderson apparently have no place in the managers plans?
Add to this the perennial injury prone crew who seem content to lie low and it's a distinct possibility that the team is severely under performing as a consequence of the new regime - and I include John Collins in that.
It just seems to me that there are more negatives than pluses at the club now and something has to give.

Agree0 Disagree0

29 Sep 2014 09:58:37
Reading ED007 and ED001's comments about Delia and his vision for the club was very interesting.
Let us look at it from another perspective, both EDS say about the "long term vision" but where is that this season with so many loan players.
Berget is not good enough I hope he goes back to Cardiff
Denayer, we will never sign him on a permanent basis, only hope is another 1 year top up loan.
Tonev, I believe we have agreed a fee if loan is a success, but will Celtic pay it.
Wakaso, same scenario I believe a £4m fee mentioned, can any Celtic fan honestly see Lawwell sanctioning that kind of money?
Guidetti, coming to end of Man City contract, will Celtic offer him a deal and more importantly will he accept it, if he does well here clubs with bigger budgets will want him.
Scepovic is a permanent signing but jury is still out on him.
As for Delia we struggled against lowly placed teams like Motherwell and Dundee who have since been given hammerings by other so called "lesser" teams.
His tactics are a mystery, at home why are we only using one attacker yes in europe but not against Scottish teams.
Yes Delia talks a good game but anyone can talk a good game, it is putting these good ideas into practice and so far Delia looks incapable of doing this.
Yes blame the players also, as I believe some are not giving 100% to the club and these players must be rooted out and replaced.
All Celtic fans want Delia to succeed because if he does not it hurts this great club but Lawwell must also look himself in the mirror and ask himself if his vision for the club is the right one also, he seems more intent in sending Celtic around the world to play money making friendlies regardless of the overall effect on the players and the club.

Believable1 Unbelievable0

29 Sep 2014 10:34:04
To keep it short From the 2 EDs comments (which are highly interesting)
Forget about how average the team are playing at the moment. How many times do some people need to read 'it's going to take times for this to click' before they start to develop patience. It's a squad transition as well as a total overhaul in methods- dietery and training. It's so naive to think that this can be done whilst beating every team 5-0. A manager could have been brought in and managed this team the way it was and maybe got more appealing score lines but Celtic would not move forward into this changing world that we are in. Football players are becoming Hyper-fit and it shows with Messi and Ronaldos of this world smashing goals records and bagging hatricks all over the place whilst rarely getting injured. Until recently footballers didn't know what there bodies were capable of if they just apply themselves not just I'm training but at the dinner table. Right rant over I'm away for a full English 😆

Agree0 Disagree0

Pedro what Messi and Ronaldo also have is ability.

Just chatting to my Son about this as he's wanting a career in Sports Science and whilst he's a big advocate of the right diet he has pointed out, without ability, the right attitude and a Manager with tactical know how - diet won't get you far.

Agree0 Disagree0

29 Sep 2014 12:05:15
Footballers throughout the ages have had ability but were held back by the lack of sports science and dietery information not to mention drink and no doubt drug intake by some (if not most Brits) not that I saw any of them I'm just a pup at 29.
But don't miss my point these players have the required ability to play professional football and RD has the ability to win a Norweigian title with a team that weren't really tipped to win it so he must have a bit if something about him. I agree with ed also about le Guen. He has the same ideas but Barry ferguson and the rest of the louts didn't want to stop boozing and smoking so they got a manager with big pedigree and big reputation the sack because they didn't embrace the change. Now look at them! Any ability someone has will be enhanced with the right diet and lifestyle that's the point.

Agree0 Disagree0

I don't mean to sound flippant, but you may as well go for results in the short term as any half decent player at Celtic will be moved on.
We are constantly being told that Celtic will sell their best players, so in a sense what is the point of these new methods as it is only their future clubs who will benefit from it.
I think we should try and achieve what we can whilst players are here and let other clubs change their diets etc.
If the policy changes in the future, and players are here for the long haul, then you can bring in these new methods.

Agree0 Disagree0

{Ed007's Note - That's just twaddle, Gerry. Our previous manager dropped the ball when it came to training, coaching and player development so the club brought someone in who is capable of doing it and taking the club forward.}

I am not saying that players should not be fit, just that the emphasis should be on results.
Whatever faults Lennon had with his training methods, we were qualifying for the çhampions league, and for the most part, were winning domestic matches with ease
if we fail to qualify for next year's çhampions league, I would have thought that it would be very damaging for the club.

Agree0 Disagree0

29 Sep 2014 16:19:14
ED007 while I see your points about giving Delia time to "update" Celtic's thinking, myself and many Celtic fans are simply asking if Delia is the right coach to implement them and take our great club forward.
Since Delia came in, with a couple of exceptions, the football has been dire with little or no passion.
People can criticise Lennon but he gave us some good nights in the CL and won trophies I doubt Delia can do this especially in the CL.
As for the appointment of Delia, we keep getting told of "Lawwell's vision" in bringing him to Celtic, but sadly I and many other Celtic fans think it was simply down to economics, ie Delia was the cheapest manager Peter could find. I think Mackay, Clark, Kean etc baulked at the paltry salary offered and saw no "vision" only another biscuit tin mentality.
These were coaches with a good track record and who knew the passion of the Celtic fans, I do not think Delia understands us the fans and this is why a lot of Celtic fans have not taken to Delia he is distant with the fans he needs to include the Celtic supporters in any "vision" he has.
Instead of Delia I believe Celtic should have went for Jackie McNamara an up and coming coach with modern ideas, an eye for a player AND someone who "gets" the Celtic philosophy.

Agree0 Disagree0

Timalloy, not having a go, just desperate for somebody to tell me what this 'celtic philosophy' is. Is it the same as 'celtic-minded'? Because all I can gather from that is that it has got something to do with winning, and doing it comfortably. Surely every coach, team and club have that mind-set.

Agree0 Disagree0

29 Sep 2014 17:47:54
Jimtim,100 percent agree,see this celtic minded crap,or celtic philosophy it's aload of shite,no disrespect to u Timmaloy, nobody has a right to be at are great club unless they have something to offer,my mates used to harp on about this when Mon was manger as he came from ar city,who gives a shite as long as he does his job

Agree0 Disagree0

29 Sep 2014 18:20:41
If the question is does RD have the pedigree to implement the changes? time will tell. Some of you might have heard of a guy called Louis Van Gaal? He is changing philosophy of a team, a style of play training regimes and different methods that he believes in. Is he doing a good job? Time will tell. RD is doing it with 3% of the budget that Man U have. Man U fans are probably crying for his head as well saying he's a dumpling because his results right now aren't what they are used to. Using RD's ethos CFC will once again start to produce from youth and on the pitch. If his vision is put in place from a young ages regarding diet and science watch this space. Not right now but for years to come. Patience and belief required.

Agree0 Disagree0

I can buy in to the sport science side of things that ronny believes in but I would rather he spends his time on coaching and tactics, surely sport science shouldn't be run by the manager but by the club if this is for the long term benefit. If ronny makes a pigs ear of it this season he won't be around so would the club abandon this philosophy I would think not so it should be controlled by a sport science team who liase with any manager.

Agree0 Disagree0

29 Sep 2014 20:48:24
@jim1972- I'm pretty sure that RD did bring in a lot of personnel to deal with the science and dieticians. He's got a whole group of people that can and will do what he's looking for. It's an overhaul and this is the beginning.

Agree0 Disagree0

My point was it shouldn't be ronny who brings them in, it should be the club that brings them in so when/if ronny leaves continuity continues and there is no mass exodus with ronny.

Agree0 Disagree0

29 Sep 2014 01:07:55
Since we are not going to get denayer on a permanent basis surely we should be looking to play o'connell more to develop him! The BHOY definitely has a lot of potential! I'd like to see our players getting more game time rather than developing an other teams asset. Surely when we have lustig/Mathews back Ambrose is right down the pecking order.

Believable0 Unbelievable1

Sorry, but unfortunately I don't see this potential that O'Connell supposedly has. He's a poor man's Darren O'Dea at best. Very clumsy looking and rough round the edges.

Agree1 Disagree2

HB; I said exactly the same thing about O'Connell as I was not impressed at all.
The back four needs an experienced stopper and organiser to sort out the complacency, cut out basic errors and give the defence some backbone.
Unfortunately this was not addressed in the transfer window and I hope Lustig and Mathews are back soon to at least add their experience and presence.

Agree1 Disagree2

Are we going to give up on an 19 year old playing his 2nd full game, give him a chance

Agree1 Disagree1

Exactly DRB some of our supporters expect immediate superstar impact o'connell played really with in the youth CL games last year and played well on Saturday! 19 years old and a solid performance and he can play the ball out from the back! Potential develops through game time and correct training suppose we should just cancel his contract?

Agree0 Disagree1

29 Sep 2014 00:32:41
Lets for 1 minute take it that RD is something special and it all taking time to adjust to the changes and tactics (where?) and he has a long term plan which will work or so he will have us believe. Ok its next summer and we just won the treble.Now he is a star and a wanted man. So what happens next? A premiership side or a top euro team comes a calling.Do you think he will stay and see thro this vision he has? No chance.He has no allegiance to us and a managers career can be short so he will be off. Now before you all clamber that Lennon would a done the same (of course he would have). But the difference here is that RD has changed the structure of the team and has them playing his way and doing all the things he wants them to do.Diets and domes etc.Now chances are that we won't get a RD clone as next manager it is much more likely to be a Moyes/MacKay/Coyle type manager.So do you think its worth it? Wud it seriously hinder our CL qualification as new manager would need time to? We have to be honest with ourselves and and admit Scottish football is poor at the moment and the CL is the be all and end all.Yes the cups are nice but they don't attract any money or fans except in a final.Wud you rather go to Hamden in Jan a stadium with no atmosphere against St.johnstone or be at Celtic park in September playing Barca/Munich/Chelsea etc? I don't think for 1 minute Europe will sit up and take notice we beat St.Johnstone in League cup final but they would if we beat any of these team on a CL night at Celtic Park with the place jumpin.Now I know some might say a treble is important, yeh it might be to some and will show on the record books but if you look at the record books you will find we also won the Dryburgh cup. My point here is the cups are now an afterthought to the CL as money rules now and if you look across Europe very few cups are taking seriously and how many of us would know who won the French cup or the Dutch cup.I just hate missing out on CL these are the games that get hairs standing up on the back o my neck.The games that the stadium is rocking.Soz I feel like paradisewon a bit here lol, but I think this is the reality now I just worry if RD is that successful it will harm our chances. If he isn't I think he will be off before season ends 1 way or another and at least we would have time.

Believable1 Unbelievable0

{Ed007's Note - RD's ideas, if given time to implement them, will be used at Celtic and Lennoxtown for years to come. He will make us a modern run club using the best available people to ensure everything is geared towards the club and players success. This is our Paul Le Guen moment, if Rangers had backed him chances are they would still be around, RD is trying to take us forward and put us on par with all top European teams behind the scenes and in player development.
Would you rather RD was on Twitter talking about playing poker (that's POKER, not poke he.. ah forget it) or down in Jinty's drinking with the players?
Remember the problems Alex Ferguson faced when he joined Man Utd, he had to change the whole set up and outlook of the club not to mention break up the drinking culture that was embedded around OT, remember Wenger taking over Arsenal and everyone laughing and scratching their head? Mourinho started out as Bobby Robson's translator and look at him now, have a look at the current Marseille head coach Marcelo Bielsa, he is one of the best coaches in the game but people from England and Scotland don't know who he is.
To be judging any manager after so such a spell smacks of fickleness, the fans need to start looking forward rather than back the way, too many people are focussing on the negatives, and enjoying doing it, rather than the positives. RD is telling everyone what he is trying to do, did NL ever do that after a defeat or poor performance?
I really believe there are sections of the support (I'm not saying you Ray) wanting RD to fail just so they can sit back and say they told us so.
99% of the support think the sun shines out John Park's backside, it was him that was raving about watching RD's while scouting Johansen, so why all of a sudden is nobody saying listen to JP, he is after all our Football development manager and chief scout.
If you've lived through the Liam Brady and Lou Macari years you should know we're nowhere near that now, was the draw in Salzburg not a decent result,? The game against Dundee Utd at CP was one of the best performances I've seen from a CFC team in the last few years, we're in the next round of the League Cup (trophies mount up if we're going to overtake the dead Rangers record) and we have got 2 players at the club that fans have wanted for years in Tonev and Guidetti.
I give the club pelters when I think they're due it, Ray, and sometimes when they're not, but I'm willing to give RD time, I don't doubt that he will leave the club in a better condition than when he came in with regards to youth development and training methods etc, I buy into all the new fangled scientific methods so I am biased but I'm excited by it all, by the thought of us moving forward.
I'll leave a note for Ed001 to comment on this, he is right into the technical side of training and he couldn't believe some of the things RD was bringing in that weren't already implemented.
Anyone would think we got beat yesterday!}

Ed007 has asked me to comment, I have to say I am amazed at some of the things I have learnt about how Celtic were operating. It is like you were still stuck in the 70s, with players being treated as lads, rather than as professional athletes. While you still need to be able to kick a ball correctly, and can get away with being not at your peak physically if you have better technical players, if you don't have players at their physical best, then they won't perform to their best.

For starters, drinking carbonated drinks, while I love them myself, they are not good for the body and should have been banned from the training ground years ago! The reason players should be in for meals, apart from for team bonding, is to ensure they have the correct diet, and that is not fizzy drinks and junk food!

When Wenger first came into Arsenal, the reason he had immediate success is because the players all bought into his fresh new (at the time) ideas. The Arsenal of those days was faster and stronger than everyone else, in large part due to his ideas. Now they get physically bullied by teams such as Stoke and any team managed by Allardyce, purely because Allardyce and Stoke have taken on board the lessons of Wenger and then gone on another step further.

There are so many things that can still be done, for instance dental work, silly as it sounds, can fix a number of niggling injury problems. In France most clubs will employ a dentist to check the players' teeth on a regular basis, because bad teeth or diseased gums can cause a weakening to the system. I can remember Vladimir Smicer telling me how a niggling hamstring problem he had, that had been constantly reocurring, was fixed by a trip to the dentist!

If you are on that same physical level as the opponent, it gives you a boost psychologically, which helps you play better, as you are more confident. If your opponent can nip past you for pace and bully you for strength as well, it is demoralising. In Europe, you can't compete in terms of finance, which means you can't buy the best players, so the only way you can ensure long term competitiveness is to be faster, stronger, fitter and force the opposition to allow you to play.

It takes time for dietary changes to have effect, some toxins will stay in the body for months, plus the players have to buy into it. No good them eating healthily on the training ground, then going home and stuffing themselves on junk from McDonalds, that will undo all the good work done. That is why it took Ferguson years to get success with Man Utd, he had to get rid of the players who wouldn't work with him and bring in ones who did.

No one can tell if Deila will be a success, but it will be at least 3 years of his modernising regime before you can even be sure. He has to completely gut the club of all who are not backing him and bring in a fresh new slate. You have to look at it like building a new youth system, that can take up to 10 years to show its effects. To go back to the Manchester United example, it was Ron Atkinson's work that resulted in the class of '92. Fergie got all the benefits though!

The question is whether or not Deila will be able to get the benefits of his work or not? The thing I am sure of is that Celtic need this to be able to be more competitive in Europe. If you don't start moving forward soon, you will just continue to go backwards, as everyone around you is moving forwards too. Forget what you need to compete in Scotland, you have more money than the rest, so you will always be able to compete at home. This is about making Celtic a force in Europe again. Not just getting the odd lucky result by hanging on for grim death, but actually being able to look to play them and pick up results.

Agree1 Disagree0

Guys i'm giving this one last bash to explain my point from yesterday as I don't think we're all singing from the same hymn sheet!

I did not say I wanted Ronny sacked at no time nor did I say we got beat at the weekend.

Last season we were defeated once in the league and finished 29 points clear of Motherwell yet the poll of the day asked about Ronny's regime being the reason we beat St Mirren? Why do we need a new regime to beat St Mirren?

Posters are saying they gave up their season tickets purely for the reason they did not like the style of football that was on offer (although I did find it strange it was after Lennon's 1st full season in charge but hey ho their ticket, their cash, their choice)

Ronny might come good and be the best thing that ever happened at Celtic - I don't know. What I do know is no amount of talking about tactics, diet or new ideas will help if he does not start getting results. I've seen Managers get better results than him sacked - rightly or wrongly remains up for debate but still sacked.

This is a results driven industry and no amount of talking a good game or fancy pants ideas will change that.

I posted my concerns which received no reply instead it was I had an agenda against Celtic (laughable), this is my concerns:-

He's spoken about unfit players - its the end of September and I see players who look lazy, cannot be bothered and have no pace.

Attacking football - we are struggling to break teams like Dundee down and are playing with no creativity at all. We seem disjointed most of the time.


Gordon, Wakaso, Guidetti, Scepovic, McGregor, Berget, Denayer, Tonev - did not work under Lennon last season to blame his poor diet and the rest have been working with Ronny for 3/4 months now. This is enough time to see the benefits of any change in diet particulary in a player who was already reasonably fit.

I have also posted about the fact we have loan players and how can Ronny be building or rebuilding anything - based on what structure, what players is he building the team around?

He will also be in the very same boat as Neil Lennon should he get players he can call his own - they will be sold. Celtic do not play in the league the same as Alex Ferguson, Mourhino or Wenger and its not a fair comparison. They can cherry pick players and keep them, we cannot. Folk seem to have a blind spot regarding players coming to Scotland, it isn't high on their ambition list.

Scottish football is probably at its worst its ever been in terms of quality in the teams we play - Motherwell, Aberdeen, Inverness, Dundee Utd, St Johnstone are all considerably weaker than they were only just a few seasons ago and have lost some of their best players. We have no Rangers, Hearts or Hibs in the league - as we all know and laughed, 2 of these teams suffered finanacially due to not watching the dreaded balance sheet.

This is the challenges Managers face in our League not the challenges like having David Beckham, Ryan Giggs, Nicky Butt, Gary Neville, Phil Neville and Paul Scholes in your youth team. To be fair, Ferguson is the first to admit he inherited decent players both at Aberdeen and Man Utd.

ED - I don't really know what Ronny did at Stomsgodset other than be their Manager for 5/6 years and took them from battling relegation to League Champions last season which is fantastic. I do not know enough about the Norwegian league to comment and I do not know what long term changes he made at the Club either. What I do know is Stromsgodset are not in the Champions League or Europa League and they never made it past the early qualifying rounds. I am unsure why this means he will make changes at Celtic for the better, we were already Champions, not battling relegation and were playing the Champions League including the last 16 only recently. Ronny's job is to at least sustain this and hopefully improve.

After all that, my point is I can only comment on the here and now not what Ronny may or may not do at the Club in the future and at this moment in time, what Ronny says and what actually happens on the park are polar opposites. I will give him time mainly because I have no choice in the matter, he's here and is the current Celtic Manager but I don't like what I see. At no time have I mentioned I won't be back at Celtic Park until he's gone nor have I booed him unlike the whole of Murrayfield or after the Aberdeen game last week, its not my style.

I haven't heard or seen anyone say they want him gone but I have seen comments with concerns about where we are headed under Ronny. I do not know any Celtic fan who wants any Celtic Manager to fail, I would actually find this pretty pathetic and weird to be honest particulary if it was for the 'I told you so' reason.

Agree0 Disagree0

Ed001 - I posted before I read your comments and this is more like my point I've been trying to make (although I've been accused of being drunk and having an agenda lol)

Ronny is here to try and sustain us in the Champions League but at this moment in time is struggling to break down Dundee. Fans are asking questions that's all

Agree1 Disagree0

{Ed001's Note - you are wrong about the dietary changes having an effect by now, in one sense. They only have an effect if players are actually taking them on board and following their diet plans to the letter. Even then, for the first few months you actually feel worse for a while, as your body flushes out toxins and has to cope with withdrawal symptoms from things such as caffeine. It varies from person to person, but 3 months is the barest minimum you can really start to judge a change in diet. A friend of mine is a regular Iron Man triathlete, when he made the decision to cut caffeine from his diet he had to withdraw from competition for 6 months, because he just felt so weak and lethargic he was unable to be sure he would complete the course, let alone give his best. So it can be a long process, though others will adjust very quickly, usually the younger players will feel the benefits more rapidly than the older ones.

You are right though, it is a results business, but anyone can get the results, if they are willing to look short term. Celtic have the resources to blow everyone else in Scotland away. This is about short term pain to create long term gain. Though I do agree, Deila might only be useful as a way of moving Celtic into this century in terms of training methods and diet sheets. Trouble is, you won't know what he can do if you don't give him time, lots of it. The board need to make it 100% clear to the players that they are backing the manager over them, then shift on the ones not willing to work under Deila and then you will see what he can do. Until then, you are always watching a battle of wills, as unwilling players do as little as they think they can get away with.}

This is the problem, we aren't blowing anyone anyway in Scotland. Granted the league table tells a story that we are but in one-off Cup games we were complacent under Lennon and lacking discipline in our game.

I know there are rumors of certain players being unfit but to be fair Crystal Palace, Norwich and Southampton have not complained about Hooper, Ledley, Forster or Wanyama nor have any of the players International Managers so not 100% sure about this and one of the reasons I'm not keen to dwell on the diet issue.

He needs to start putting together a string of results and build confidence which has hopefully started now.

Agree0 Disagree0

{Ed001's Note - Norwich have complained a lot about Hooper's lack of fitness actually. Forster is a keeper, that is a totally different area, with a lot less requirement to be physically fit and it is not expected that a keeper is at the same level as a midfielder. Wanyama is a hard worker anyway, he likes the physical side of it, so you would expect him to just adapt, though Poch did say a few times that Southampton needed to be patient with him as he got used to the fitness levels required. I can't comment on Ledley as I haven't heard anything either way.

International managers are something else. You are not talking about players in the Spain squad, who do have strict diet plans etc, so any fitness deficiencies would probably be put down to exhaustion etc. Players aren't really with their countries enough for a true assessment.}

Fair enough about Hooper, I've not seen Norwich's comments. Hooper always was a bit of a puffer and panter.

I just don't think the team are that unfit. Celtic play more games than any other team in Scotland and a much faster game but I suppose to take us to the next level we might benefit from these changes.

I'm not good at moving with the times and can be cynical of 'talk'. I can actually see a Manager in the near future going back to basics soon - boot room etc. Just the way I see life :-)

Agree0 Disagree0

{Ed001's Note - going back to basics I agree with, but being fit is a part of the basics of any sport.}

My last word on the subject and reading through the comments, really diet etc can all come down to plain old discipline?

Something I can agree was lacking with Lennon.

Agree0 Disagree0

{Ed001's Note - very much so. Self-discipline as much as anything though I do agree, that was a real weakness of Lennon's regime.}

29 Sep 2014 09:25:21
Mrs e I feel I must defend myself here as you are doing the woman thing of twisting words to suit your argument. I said I wouldn't make it personal by accusing you of being on the sherry despite you accusing me of being on the madam ( whatever that is ) . I also said you sound as if you had an agenda against rd because he is not nl , at no point did I say you were drunk with an agenda against Celtic . The one thing I would say is I have met nl on several occasions on both social and work levels and some of the time his demeanor was not what I expect from a Celtic manager , hence the reason I felt a change was needed. Now back to the point you don't think rd has what it takes and compare his teams performance and results from last season to rds teams from this one, a totally unfair comparison as nl had years to get his team together. I will give him a bit longer than a few weeks before I past judgement on his ability .

Agree0 Disagree0

Fab I feel you are doing the man thing and not listening/reading what I am saying. Appreciate this is a forum and there can be misinterpretation from all posters including myself.

My point yesterday was do we really need a nw regime to beat St Mirren? I wasn't unhappy with Neil Lennon and thought he did a reasonable job for a rookie. He did lack discipline which was seen in his one-off Cup performances. Some did not like his style of play - hmm not sure this was that bad as we always dominated possession and scored goals however he was guilty of complacency after Rangers departed.

I think we need a new regime to take us to the next level which is Europe. Maybe in time this will happen, I don't know.

Unless Ronny finds away to break down Dundee, he will not be competing in Europe anytime soon. Totally agree a few weeks is to quick to make an overall judgement but I do usually post on most games and can only form an opinion based on what I've seen so far.

I hope you are right about Ronny, I really do.

Please do me one favour though, stop assuming this is about Lennon - I cannot stress enough that it isn't.

Agree0 Disagree0

In terms of Arsenal in the beginning Tony Adams went to Arsene Wegner and complained that they squad felt they were not fit ENOUGH! pre season! and it was not until they felt vitamin INJECTIONS kick in they felt stronger!

What I am saying is we are the ONLY team in Scotland STILL BUYING players for a fee etc we were and still should be miles ahead of the rest and on current 5 performances! we are really really struggling as a have said it is far far to easy to "countermand" this 4-3-3 system IMO as we seen on Saturday St Mirren went to a BACK 6! and there creative midfielder followed our captain all over the pitch as a SPOILER our league is "anti-football" and if a team gets the first goal against they shut up shop and invite us to try and get 2! and we cannot do it with this negative football we encounter! especially with 1 striker! as it has been pointed out PLG tried it, Tony Mowbray tried it great ideas, men IMO but it doesn't suit our league/system any more than it would be for Barcelona to try and start to play the "long ball"

What a will say on RD's defence or should that be defiance? He does not look a worried man or under any pressure at ALL which would suggest that he has had assurances he is not going anywhere . . . as in the P45!

ATVB JB7

Agree0 Disagree0

29 Sep 2014 12:02:30
ED interesting points of view re RD. You make a lot of valid points and in particular points regarding giving RD lots of time to allow him a valid chance of putting his philosophy into practice. Also agree that players not buying in need moved on. My question therefore this. Do Celtic have the funds to see this through.

#1. Players not buying in, move them on. We only have 3 or 4 players who we would get reasonable money for. Principally Brown and VVD. So many of the players may need to be allowed to run down contract and then replaced. That's expensive and takes a lot of time so it's easy to say move them on but in reality more difficult.
#2. Look at latest Celtic accounts. 11.4mill profit but the key number is cash on hand which is 4.1 mill. That profit and cash surplus was generated from CL football plus player sales amounting to around 15mill. So if we have reduced player sales and no CL football for a few seasons whilst RD makes his changes, where does the money come from?

#3. RD has said we will be in a better position to compete at CL level next season. However 6 players are loan players, so if they go, we won't be in much of a position to compete in the qualifiers anyway. Understand they all have buy out clauses but the board need to sanction the payments. We need the CL money to feed his revolution so we are back to square 1. If RD can get us CL football next year then that's good enough for me, at this moment in time however he is going to need results in order to win the league just to get the opportunity to play in qualifiers.

So the question is, if the Board are thinking like you regarding giving RD 2 or 3 seasons to make the changes, have they factored in the loss of maybe £30 mill from CL money? We have already lost £15 mill this year. Why would they do that when they talk about the risk of spending £4 or £5 mill on a player? Somewhere along the lines I don't think the board ever considered that RD would not win the league and that he would do any less well in CL qualification than NL and Strachan did. I think they factor in 2 CL qualifications every 3 years, so just to hit the budgets he needs to qualify next year. If he can't do that then where does the money come from? So everything is hanging on RD getting this right and right now he looks a million miles away. So if you want to introduce a long term plan it may be useful to work out the actual cost of going so before you start.

Agree0 Disagree0

{Ed007's Note - Blame RD if you want but all these problems are the impact of long term neglect, not short term shambles.}

All good points well made ed, yes fitness is a major factor and I tell my son the same as he plays football under 15s, in Blantyre though he is very lucky to be extremely fit anyway. I also play poker on a thurs night where a certain pro player is there also (premier league), and can be seen downng the red bull at an alarming rate (at least its no beer).Now we can preach all the diet stuff in the world but they are also human and we would be daft to believe they not having a sneaky fish supper wi irn bru in their own time.It may wel be our Le Guen moment and he might have had some great ideas but plainly the players (top class players) did not like him could that be the same at Celtic.My worry here is RD is off at end of season and the new manager as I said just throws it all out the window as he will want it his way and its all been wasted.

Agree0 Disagree0

{Ed007's Note - The players are professional and very well paid athletes, if they can't resist eating fish suppers etc then they won't be at the club, it's as simple as that.
On the first day of training at Real Madrid James Rodriguez thought he would make a good impression and get in early, get warmed up, do some personal drills etc and be good to go when training started. He arrived TWO hours before training started only to find that Ronaldo was already out on the training pitches working away, that's how you improve. Do you think Carlo Ancelloti accepts players will have a fly fish supper?
If players at CFC aren't dedicated to improving themselves and the team then they can leave, they'll never play for a club like CFC again and it will be their loss, too many players fell into a comfort zone under NL, they need to knuckle down or move on.}

A new manager trying to implement a new system with 90% of the previous regime's players will always be a struggle.A lot of people on here slated the appointment of John Collins as RD's assistant and I said at the time that eh would make the fitter and better football players BUT you have to want it as well and as Ed has said it takes time. People have been moaning for years about how poor a team we are, how we are not entertained anymore, we don't play "The Celtic Way", well here is a man who wants to do that but people expect a complete transformation is 3 months. When Dortmund went bust a few years ago they brought in Klopp, gave hiom the canvas and told him to write the club's future. He did this by changing the academy, the players thought process, diest, training, social life, sleep patterns, style of play, work rate but he didn't do it overnight. He told the fans what his plan was and they bought into it 100% because they believed him. We all believed NL when he said about bringing back the thunder and he did for a while but it reverted back to boring again. We now have a management team who want to play fast attack minded football but to do that you need the players, it may take another 2 or 3 transfer windows for them to get the players they want to make it work but the least they should expect is for us to support them, don't be so nieve to think that it will all be perfect in 6 months, it wont, there will be good and bad performances but we will win the league and over the 6 months RDJC will find out who wants to come along for the new trip and who will leave the club in December of next Summer. I like the philosophy of what he wants to do, I like that it will filter through the academy, I like that he wants another astro indoors for all the age groups to be able to practice all year round. The end product may take a wee while but when it comes it will be there for years to come as the whole place will be playing the same way.after all that was Tommy Burns philosophy as well!

Agree0 Disagree0

People are correctly saying that it too soon to criticise Deila he needs more time . That is perfectly right . However it is also too soon to praise Deila and to tell us that in the long time he will reinvent the Celtic team winning doubles and trebles and success in the Champions League year in year out .
Maybe he will and maybe he won't . So fat we haven't had any noticeable improvement, maybe that if fair enough . But how long should we give him? Maybe he should get 5/6 years but will he get that time?

Agree0 Disagree0

29 Sep 2014 18:51:18
Allymac, when Dortmond went bust and Klopp came in the fans would buy into his regime. It is a different scenario here at Celtic. We are expecting to win the league and qualifying for CL. If you said to the supporters we are brining in a new system from top to bottom and it may take 3 years to get it right and during that time we may well not win anything? How many would back that policy. That however is what we have. RD is a risk and he is unproven ( in any meaningful league). So are you willing to take the risk and there are no guarantees? I don't know if I am willing to take it with RD?

Agree0 Disagree0

Lots of good points ally, but Klopp would a been given loads o time as Dortmund were not expected to win the league esp given their financial situation. RD at Celtic is expected to win the league and finishin 2nd would be like relegation to other clubs.The important thing for me (like him or loathe him) lennon has brought in est 60m in last 2 years and that's me bein conservative.Money is king now and can you imagine how our team would look if we never got that 60m.We already missed CL and if we don't get there next season that's 40m missed. WE cannot afford that regardless of who might think we have the dogs testacles as a manager. All the philosophys in the world won't replace that.And just a fun point TB team was great to watch but it didn't half leak goals and didn't do much in Europe if I remember right.

Agree0 Disagree0

29 Sep 2014 19:37:30
Any workforce faced with such a massive change to the methods and systems they operate under will take time to adapt. While I get a lot of the criticism Rd is receiving the Dundee utd game contradicts much of it. That day,as ed touched on, the system clicked, the players clicked and we dismantled a side we all expected a really tough game against. The baffling thing is why we haven't got near to that level since. Was it luck? I don't think that eleven have started a game since. Were Dundee utd really poor or did we stop them being good? The players showed that day they are capable of playing high tempo entertaining football and scoring goals. I think RDs system demands 11 players fit enough to play at a high tempo for 90 minutes. If the squad are only at 60% of the fitness level required the system will only be 60% effective. There is no hiding place for non tryers or favourites. RD for me is trying to find out how good the players could be if they get fit enough. He won't know the answer until the fitness is increased. He can't really be blamed for anything he inherited or players who refuse to give him 100% commitment to his methods.

Agree0 Disagree0

Fair point Andy but for me this team looks less fit than last season, and slower. And for a manager that goes on about fitness all the time, why the hell does he play players who are clearly not fit yet.(Berget 1st match, Brown, Scepovic, Tonev, Forrest, to name a few). The ironic thing here is prob the least fit player and defo not match fit till recently has been our best player (Gordon).I just don't like this pressing game 20/25 away from opp goal. It makes the pitch too big because if they get past it we are wide open half the time. Why not wait till they 40 yards out and them we can press as a unit and with less ground to cover the players will be fresher to attack on the break more often. because the disappointin thing for me this season is we have simply been shocking on the break. This is when the opp is at its weakest and we fail to make a simple pass at times. We want to go thro the middle straight away when the space is wide to open the defence then get it inside.

Agree0 Disagree0

@rayman, will that system be much more effective once all our squad understand their role better and are fit enough to play it properly? I guess players are getting games as part of the process to make them fitter. I think very few of the squad are at the required level yet. If performances don't improve as fitness levels rise is it the system that's wrong or are the wrong players trying to play it? Until it's an entire RD team that's hard to answer.

Agree0 Disagree0

What I was trying to get across with the Dortmund comparison was a new manager trying to implement a new system and asking the fans to buy into what he was doing. We have got too many players who believe they are world beaters when in fact they are very average. We have looked at some of the young Scottish talent that has escaped our clutches over the years, McArthur, McCarthy, Gauld, Russel, Robertson just to name a few, all young all Scottish who would have made us better. I think RD has a philosophy about how the game should be played and he wants it all the way through the club, that takes time but we as fans need to buy into that as well. I know he will be expected to deliver trophies every season and you are right I wouldn't be over the moon if we didn't win the league but after only 7 matches in the league we are already dissecting the guy and his methods without giving him a fair crack, jeez we gave Mowbray more than that! I think another couple of players are needed, and once we get Lustig back then one more creative, dynamic, powerful centre mid and we will be ok. I know I am talking about the player everyone wants but that is the harsh truth because without Broony we look toothless in the CM areas.

Agree0 Disagree0

 
Change Consent