Celtic Banter Archive October 27 2014

27 Oct 2014 21:32:00
Reading through the posts it seems that there are a lot of us indulging in arguing over RD and team performances. Why? After watching some displays from Lennons teams, and let's be honest there were a few stinkers, can you honestly say this is worse?

Mrs E, a poster who I respect greatly for her knowledge and loyalty stated that we could be embarrassed in Europe, Seriously Mrs E, we took a few doings during Lenny's reign. Surely the point is we are trying to change our whole club round.Training, fitness and dietary advice is to the fore of this new regime.I posted the last four seasons statistics, not really much difference in them, but it seems that RD has a list of people waiting, maybe even willing, for him to fail.I don't get it.

We are starting a whole fresh new outlook on the game based on modern football philosophy, fitness and organisation is at the forefront of this.This does not happen overnight.I have said before we are a CL CLUB, but we are not a CL TEAM. The Barca game, for all it's wonderful memories, was a false dawn.Watch it again and see if you can honestly say we deserved to win it. RD is facing scrutiny like no other manager in Scotland has had to before, even Le Guen was hailed till he tried to ask barry the ned to give up the monster munch! Are some of us forgetting just how biased the media are up here?

The last thing we need is to start in fighting amongst ourselves, we all love the same club, and if it does not work and RD has to go so be it.But let's give the guy a chance, and the players for that matter.Lets not forget we top our Euro league section! Some will say we have not played well, but is that not a good thing? Remember the old adage that a team that's wins when not playing well is doing something right.

Seems to me that far too many people are blinkered to just how far we had slipped under Lenny, Morton anyone?

I don't think it is worthwhile comparing RD with NL. Lenny inherited a disastrous team and had to completely rebuild it. He won three leagues out of four. I think it is reasonable to remember that he did this with threats being made to his life which were deemed serious enough to have him move from his home with his family. I would suggest very few people on this forum have experienced such an ordeal and still managed a high pressure job. I will always respect his courage and commitment to the club. However he has left Celtic and we have to look forward. I want to judge RD on his merit, I really don't care who he has or hasn't played for. If he is successful then I will be delighted, however as yet he remains unconvincing, on Sunday up to the sending off we were struggling, fair play though we took advantage of the extra man and won quite comfortably in the end. My major concern is that in every game we are outnumbered in midfield and therefore surrender possession too much, perhaps he will take steps to rectify this over the next few weeks. He seems to have realised the need to have more than one forward. It would be in RD interest to avoid talking about progress, the fans have seen enough performances over the years to recognise good from bad performances, when the team is playing well we will know, he won't need to tell us. As it is any progress is not yet apparent on the field! but another few wins might instill confidence throughout the team. A final point is I don't recognise this idea that Celtic fans are wanting him to fail, everyone that sits around me at Celtic park is desperate for us to play well and win! we all wan the team to be successful

Guys, I can't keep doing this.

There is nobody that I know of waiting on Ronny to fail - maybe the oppostion I don't know and I cannot for this life of me understand this argument. If folk had inside knowledge and football was an exact science then see on Friday night, can you post your match result predictions so I can get a coupon up. Except you can't, can you because you don't know.

GJ - i'm going to try and explain things. This is not about Ronny or his diet, fitness, coaching - he's the Celtic Manager and its a given he has my backing, sat there the past 2 games with wet pants such was the weather so no way.


I work with a lot of folk from Larkhall (and Ed will tell you this is true and i'm not making it up to back up a story), a few have no interest in football but the ones that do are Rangers fans. Anyway 2 seasons ago they openly admitted they did not want Celtic in the Cup draws for fear of being humilitated, on top of everything else that was happening to them. Do you still think they have this same fear? Do they heck, they fancy their chances and not because they've improved. We've brought ourselves down to that level.

VVD, Denayer - our Centre back pairing will not be here next Summer, they're off so no training method and Celtic's Managers regime will help here. Ed doesn't like the goalie and what if he is 'proven right' seen as this is the term we are using. Matthews and Forrest (who I both like) are never off the treatment table. Johansen worked under Ronny at Stromsgodset and can only play in a forward role but is easily taken out by decent oppostion. Guidetti is the only shining light and there shouldn't be much wrong with his fitness, he wasn't at Celtic last season - neither was McGregor, Scepovic, Wakaso, Tonev, Denayer or that Berget.

What is it you think he's building? He's changed some of the training, fitness and diet methods - not gave the players Ronaldo esque ability.

The Barca game - of course we deserved to win, we scored more goals. Nobody for one minute thought we are a better team but we worked well to hold them off and took our chances. Goals win games or else we would have won the treble for the past 3/4 seasons. It wasn't a false dawn either, we qualified again last season unfortunately we did not replace the players sold and this is my point!

You think Ronny is going far with this current team - loans and a couple of definites that will be well gone this time next season?

We don't have players who are here to play for Celtic, we have players passing through hoping to catch the eye of a bigger Club, Ronny's ideas are just a means to an end for them until they get their move. He needs to be strong with the Board in this respect and get his own players in or else its a wing and a prayer every season from now on.

We are using stats to say all is ok - Morton wasn't that bad we had 25 shots on goal and 67% possession so it was unlucky ppfft. This is what is being using just now to justify poor performances for whatever reason.

I posted the other week that I don't think folk are watching these games or are maybe only seeing the highlights on Sportscene, I don't know but something is amiss and its not me who is blinkered.

Anyone writes back 'never mind sevco' or 'who cares what they think' has completely missed the point.

I grew to like Lennon and always said he did alright for a rookie but if you want to know how I felt in his early days look back my posts from 2011 - I was not confident of results and joked about taking vodka and kalms so this Celtic minded excuse is not me. Folk are entitled to their opinion but to think the only reason fans are no happy is because they want Rangers in the league, want a Celtic minded Manager or believe phone-ins is just ridiculous. They are unhappy the direction Celtic are going - you are content, fair enough.

From the days of Strachan and MON - we have declined under Mowbray and Lennon but there's a huge cut in the wage bill, standard of players etc its not just Managers methods.

@1. Disagree. Team lennon inherited for far better than team Ronny inherited.

Stronger all round

I think R Deila should be judged on his performances. Comparison with past managers is really what the media like to fill pages .
If Deila has European Football after Christmas and wins the league and perhaps something should he not deserve praise in his own right without constant referring to past managers .

Why is anybody even mentioning Neil Lennon, there seems to be a few anti nl obsessives on here, not realy meaning you dn, (but I am ), RD has to be judged on his own merits as a manager, a manager has to manage the players at his disposal to the best of their abilities, we don't want a wee craigy brown type saying its no me, I just don't have the players, the statistics may be ok but the performances and the entertaiment has been the worst for . well I can't remember worse performances, but i'm willing to give RD a bit more time to get his act together, cause I believe in his philosophy, just don't know yet if he's the man to put it into place, but I wish these anti nl guys would stop saying the team played even worse when he was the manager, cause they are deluded.

@5. And what if I am?

Chris & Aindoh, agreed - we have been posting about Ronny's team performances but its at the point now its tedious the NL/RD love/hate fest, something that is boring.

DN 30 that reply is just unjustifiable nonsense

28 Oct 2014 18:54:57
So dn30 is anti (hates) LENNON,
U told me u weren't anti (hate) LENNON,u just didn't rate him as a manger,were u telling porkies.
THE TRUTH WILL SET U FREE.

DaBhoy you talk utter nonsense! Lost count of how many times I have exposed you for talking nonsense. The only reason YOU like Lennon is cause he is Irish and Catholic and before anyone gets on their high horse about me saying that, DaBhoy felt need to announce nationality and religion when discussing topic earlier. Grovelling apology posted day.

I've got more respect for myself than to explain anything to the likes of yourself who are living in dark ages and are clueless about football.

Just shows you how narrow minded people like yourself are, people automatically hate someone cause they didn't rate managerial skills and didn't appreciate the mess left by that person behind.

@GroutDoc

Boruc, Keane, McGeady, N'Guemo, Ki and Samaras to name a few.

Is that justifiable enough for you?

Dn30", all these times u exposed me, ha, u never answered any of my questions, I apologise d as I didn't want threw of the site for slagimg u of.There was a context to the religion and nationality if u or any1 else cares to read.
U did tell porkies .

DaBhoy probably best if you stop copying others patter on this page and think for yourself. Wait! Hang on a second, a pattern is emerging here.

Clearly evident you can't think for yourself (already had an incline to this with your poor debating skills r.e manager) now you are copying others patter. Is there anything you have posted on this that is your own opinion? Or are you truly warped with political nonsense that some fans have (celtic minded pi$h) and not really interested in the footballing side of things?

I thought Lennon was appointed immediately after St Mirren beat us 4 nil . As that was just the final straw as far as big Tony's term as manager, I can't honestly say that Lennon inherited as good a team as he left . Four or five players playing as individuals don't build a team.

Chris there is no doubting Lennon took over from Mowbray after St Mirren game. No doubting Mowbray was shocking manager, however the argument is straight forward. The squad, with these key players was of a higher standard in quality compared to the one Delia inherited.

Each of the named players went on to play in the EPL with the exception of N'guemo.

Its a managers job to bring these individuals together and play as a team. Mowbray simply was not good enough to do this, but if Lennon was as good as people think then bringing them together should not of been a problem.

DN30 so you can name five players three of whom were gone in his first full season in charge not really a compelling argument is it

GroutDoc that was the squad Lennon inheritated. Regardless of who left when. Its fairly obvious that there would be departures to any new managers reign.

You ar an angry little man, if it makes u feel better calling name and slaging people to get your point across, water of a ducks back to me. Iam non political and first and foremost a celtic fan>:)

{Ed007's Note - Right that's enough, let's get it back on track lads. This doesn't have anything to do with football or even one of your opinions on something and there's no debate involved.}

27 Oct 2014 18:22:13
Dear god clyde is excelling itself tonight. Literally thirty seconds in and Keevins is rattling on about Celtic needing to be prepared! You expect this single fish from fat dalek johnshun, but Keevins has a sickness regarding Celtic. He just can't help himself bracketing us constantly with sevco, it really is desperate. But remember folks we heard all this when t'yorkshire lad wi big hands was handing out tea and slipping into his brown brogues!

Was it not just a couple of weeks ago we were acclaimed as the third best financially run club in WORLD FOOTBALL? But according to Keevins we should be running scared of an imploding debt ridden nightmare of a club run by a manager who thinks tactics are wee mints and who have no credit facility, essential for ANY business. You can almost smell the desperation from sevconia.

According to the 1o'clock BBC news today Rangers suffered a terrible administration and were relegated to the 3rd division . I thought they were liquidated.

27 Oct 2014 07:25:08
Folks just reading through some of the comments from yesterday, weekend and let out springs to mind.

Nearly 2 years ago - CL V Barcelona 2-1 (This is not about this one game though)

I'm reading we've made progress - where?

Since season 2012/13 where we won the League and Scottish Cup double and reached the last 16 of the CL, we have been in steady decline.

This is not about the Managers and I cannot see how any Manager will make a difference without decent players. Our transfers recently have been shocking - loans and £2m very obviously does not get a decent striker now unless you are lucky. I would rather we buy up players like Johnny Russell, Stevie May than spend £2m on a Pukki.

Neil Lennon did make an absolute backside of the Cup competitions but for us to think we are in still in all the Cup competitions and EL is progress - this is nowhere near the bigger picture here, not even close.

I fully expect to qualify now for the last 32 but unless we strengthen in January, we are going to need to favourable draw or an embarrassment is on the cards.

VVD and Denayer and not a strong partnership hence why other teams are getting shots at goal, without Guidetti we are misfiring all over the place, the midfield is lightweight, often loses its shape and making sloppy passes that a better team will punish - hopefully Ronny can sort this out though.

Kev - the home crowd make the players nervous, well deal with it. Seems to be happening at Liverpool, Borussia Dortmund and Manchester United to.

27 Oct 2014 09:12:51
Ed did Mrs e really send this in or did you just cut and paste it from last Monday or the Monday before that or the Monday before that.

Well now you know how I feel Fab when I’m reading something but watching a team that tells an entirely different story

Welcome to my gang!

I agree there has been a worrying downward trend in quality/standards and it has left us expecting more and unfortunately settling for less.
The CL exit was a huge blow, but there is no way this team - in it's current form - would have avoided embarrassment even though the club will miss the lucrative cash benefits.
This has compounded the problems for RD by cutting his funds and limiting his acquisitions to mostly loan signings which is not ideal for moral or long term, team building.

Our performances had been patchy and unpredictable, but with 6 wins in seven games we are at least finding some sort of consistency and the two strikers are winning us games.
The football is not vintage Celtic but if we could convert more of the chances we are creating, confidence will keep building momentum.
The team selection has settled and I think Lustig was sadly missed and Ambrose is well out of it and we have been crying out for a Guidetti type Celtic centre forward for ages.

We are still carrying too many injury prone players and there are others like Griffiths, Henderson, Berget and Tonev who don't seem to be in the frame - as indeed is Commons from one week to another?
I am pleased we are making some sort of progress and beating the Jags on Wednesday will be a 'Cup' test for RD in a tournament we have slipped up in, in recent seasons.

I still have my concerns, but we are returning to winning-ways and long may it continue (touch wood).

{Ed007's Note - This caught my eye earlier on, over our last 7 matches our record has been: WWWLWWW, 15 goals scored with 3 conceded. Compare that to the previous 7 matches: DDWDLLD, 7 goals scored and 8 conceded. Yet some people are saying there's been no progress under Delia, it seems that some people out there just don't want to see it.
If things go as expected and we win our game in hand to go top of the league, beat Partick and we are in the semi-final of the League Cup and qualify from the EL and have European football after Christmas, that's already a more successful season than last year.}

27 Oct 2014 15:49:29
Mrs E once again I find myself agreeing with your post, I said last week that although Denayer is very promising he is prone to being either caught in no mans land as ball sails over his head and out of position and also guilty of ball watching at times, but I posted I hoped Delia would also see this and try and work on the young lad's deficiencies. Denayer needs coaching and a friendly voice to encourage him.
As for Van Dijk sadly I can see Celtic accepting an offer for him in January (and he has already issued a "come and get me" to Arsenal) If we get £8m+ for him most of it should be ploughed back into team.
Hopefully Delia will talk Lawwell into also signing Guidetti on a permanent deal with perhaps Wakaso also, but NOT Berget or Tonev.
Your point about the midfield is also well made, I thought playing Mulgrew beside Brown would work, but Charlie's careless passing has caused us problems, surely Kayal deserves more game time in midfield.
If Virgil goes in January, we can either sign another centre half, or more likely knowing Lawwell, we will have to make do with Ambrose or Mulgrew as a centre back beside young Denayer.
Also the sloppy passing and lack of tempo in games must surely be addressed by Delia, but I am glad to see Scepovic now looking much more like the centre forward we hoped he was, along with Guidetti we now have a potent partnership up front.

27 Oct 2014 18:44:22
Junglejim/ed , although it's been slow in coming there is progress there if people choose to see it. I'll take 3 league points after a euro tie in whatever form they come. Look at the list of teams who didn't win this weekend after playing midweek. When the team plays at the tempo RD wants them to its effective and decent to watch. It's hard to keep up for 90 mins and twice in 3 1/2 days is even harder. I've sat next to the same guy in the north stand since it was built. Yesterday he revealed he had made is mind up about RD after the legia away game? I reminded him he also made his mind up about WGS after artmedia game. Now that RD has seen the benefit of playing two strikers , especially at home, I think the improvement will continue . I also think the next two transfer windows will be busy. The product I watched yesterday was better in many ways than some of the garbage I saw us play under NL.

In what ways is the 'product' better Andy?

I've said in my post we need better players and you think the next couple of transfer windows will be busy? Is this an agreement?

'Choose' being the word - my post is about the decline since the CL exit v Juve TWO seasons ag but I get domestic fugures from the start of last season? No mention of the lucrative CL we were in last season (disaster or not) or the reason we have been papped out the qualifiers twice this season.

As I said, this is NOT a comparison of Managers.

Mrs E, players will have to deal with it. Sooner the better for all concerned.

27 Oct 2014 22:00:49
@mrs E , I agree with most things you post. I don't disagree with anything in your post. My point was when the tempo is kept high we are decent to watch. Something we haven't been for much of the last two seasons. We have a very long way to go but for me there are signs of progress and the last few results show that. That we have declined isn't in doubt. We always need better players but seem powerless to keep the ones we do get. Not being in the CL is without doubt damaging but we didn't turn up for the qualifiers.

Mrs E, I think one of the reasons that the opposition get so many shots at our goals is that we usually play 2 midfielders and everyone seems to have their attack button pressed .
If we haven't scored at least two goals our hearts are in our mouths for the last 20 minutes

Chris - we are definitley vulnerable when teams are on the attack and agree, its uncomfortable watching if we don't have a 2 goal cushion.

Andy - the CL qualifiers were horrible viewing and hopefully Ronny learns from his EL experience.