Celtic Banter Archive November 25 2013

25 Nov 2013 21:57:22
Anybody any reasons why the celtic youth teams normally run a mock in there leagues and we virtually bring no 1 through when dundee utd are bringing through a team full of talent who are getting spoke of being valued in the millions. Surely we must have a better standard of player if there always winning. They must be given a chance to prove there worth

Could it be the fact that when players make it into the celtic first team that they think they have made the big time?

Mulgrew in his first spell was bombed out by strachan for indiscipline. Tony Watt clearly thinks he has made it after his goal against Barcelona. Darren O'Dea and McGeady getting involved in fights. Liam Miller thinking he was better than he was.

Niall

Who was the young right winger a few years back, short brown hair, who broke through but was gobby on camera a bit and released? Think he was Glaswegian.

It's always dificult at Celtic IMO because teams sit in and make it hard so it's dificult for the youth as it tends to be a bit physical.The players a utd aren't playing teams who are sitting in and therefore have space to play and it looks good and the young players are gaining imvauluableb experience. If teams came out and played against Celtic I think more youth would be given a chance. Saturdays game goes to show how dificult it is to win matches when teams sit in.

Porcelain (paul slane)?

Sound as good a reason as av heard anywhere els.
Ed mentioned it yesterday the youths coming through should be set rules to stop there egos getting to big maybe then they will appreciate what they've got.
Send as many of the youth who are there or there abouts with the first team out on loan, this way they will get the space to progress in more competitive football, and when they've been to some other team and come back maybe they will be reminded of what size of club celtic are what they could be a part of if they knuckle down.

It's probably worth noting that Utd have recently copied the youth set up at Celtic very closely. They are a very forward-looking club, and have created a tie up with St John's High School in Dundee in the same way that Celtic has one with a high school in the north of Glasgow (i forget the name. ).
It is also worth noting that the Celtic youth system produces a huge number of players who go on to be professionals - but normally at other clubs. Most SPL sides have several ex-Celts in the ranks. Producing players good enough to enhance a relatively rich club like Celtic is harder however. We produce a lot of good players, but not too many who are 'Celtic-class'. Jean-Pierre Laguerre

St Ninians in Kirkintilloch

Plain and simple, they don't get a chance. I feel that Bahrudin Atajic could be the answer to our lack of goals, yet he's continually kept in the dark + I fear we'll lose him before he's given a chance to prove for (or against) whether he's worthy of a place at Celtic. I think the bhoy's made about 3 appearances for Celtic as a sub, totalling under 20 mins of game time. How can anyone benefit, improve their game or show what they can do in that little amount of time?!

Darnell Fisher looks like the only one getting a chance just now, and it just so happens to be our strongest position. Lustig, Matthews + Fisher all look great at RB!

HamiltonBhoy

25 Nov 2013 21:05:00
Not a rumour but just asking opinions. With Joe Hart being relegated to the bench recently does anyone think that his no. 1 jersey in the England squad could be on a shaky peg? I am worried that should he continue to be overlooked for Man City then Fraser Forster might push for a transfer in January to try and push for no. 1 spot in Brazil. I've heard that we've been linked with David Forde of Millwall as a short term replacement but I would go for Shay Given, again in the short term, think he would be great for SPL until a long term no. 1 is sought.

25 Nov 2013 21:56:29
Forster won't be sold til summer I feel. not many gks move mid season unless a injury to the number 1 at the other club
the possibilities are a big no from me. david forde is no better than jamie langfield of aberdeen and as for shay given is he not 36/37 and hasn't played as long time. yes you do say short term but I feel this area of the team should have been scouted thoroughly as we all know forster will be gone shortly and the names that have been bounced around better just be a smoke screen

Saying pellegrini wants begovic in January and will give hart on loan in the deal. ssn

No because Harte is back in goal for man city's champions league clash.

25 Nov 2013 15:40:23
AJAX fans have left a message in support of Celtic fans at the site of clashes before this month's Champions League game between the sides in Amsterdam.


Five Celtic fans were convicted last week of violence and disorder offences and given sentences of between one month and two months imprisonment.

The note of support, signed by the 'VAK410 Ultras' group and entitled 'The Pole of Justice', criticises the police for using heavy-handed tactics. It begins: "You thought you'd get away with this, didn't you? Launching an attack together with your colleagues of the riot police and the undercover cops, the so called Romeos. What an easy opportunity for you to arrest some Celtic 'hooligans'.

"Meanwhile you could easily beat up some defenceless people and knee them countless times. Just so you could let off some steam."

The note then details one of the main flashpoints from the evening, in which a plain clothes police officer was caught on video running headfirst into a lamppost.

That's rich from them. They caused all the trouble and created the atmosphere that resulted in Celtic fans being brutalised by police and arrested.
Celtic supporters do not have ultras or travelling support who look for violence/ trouble. Nor those who support at home either.

I remember at easter road in the late 80's celtic fans handing over the "celtic"casuals to the police! we have always self governed ourselves of course we have some idiots but gladly not as many as most teams hail hail to one and all

Stick your message

Jack the lad

25 Nov 2013 10:08:03
Everton boss Roberto Martinez will sell striker Nikica Jelavic - if he can find a top-class replacement.

The Croatian hit man is wanted by West Ham, but they are looking at a loan deal for the former Rangers star.

The Goodison club will be looking for most of their money back on Jelavic who was a big success initially but is now a regular reserve.

Martinez is looking for a new striker but needs the funds of a sale to get the quality he wants.

Jelavic signed in January 2012 and has since made 65 appearances for the club.

---------------------------------------------------

If we made a move for Jelavic I wouldn't be one bit dissapointed, he's exactly the kind of striker we need at the moment. I do imagine his wages may be a stumbling block though?

I suggested this to some CFC supporting friends in the summer and they laughed at me, saying he was overrated and never good enough to play for Celtic. I found that very petty, Jela is a quality centre forward he has all the attributes needed to be a top player. Big, strong, quick enough over the first 10-15 yards, good in the air, good finisher, technically gifted. He proved all that in his first 6 months down there but for whatever reason it didn't quite work after that. These things happen. Would be a great signing for Celtic should they be able to afford his wages, as you said HB. As an ex-Ranger I'd be disappointed to see it happen but he always hoped to play CL football so that could be a draw for him. {Ed007's Note - He is nothing more than an average player and his attitude and threats of going on strike if he doesn't get his own way are well known since his days at Zulte Waregem, Rapid Wien and even Rangers.
I told Everton fans when he signed they would get a good player for 6 months then he wouldn't try a leg. He is lazier (and nowhere near as good a player) than Berbatov. I told them Naismith would prove to be a better signing for them.
It hasn't worked out at Everton because of his lazy attitude and childish tantrums about going on strike, plain and simple.
111 goals in 282 matches considering the level of leagues he has played in all his career apart from the EPL is a joke. Just because someone played with Rangers doesn't immediately mean he is a good player. His stats are not better than Stokes' and as a striker your career is defined by the goals you score.}

@ Ed007

I can only go with his time at Rangers I was going to every game home and away at that point and he was quality, a very good player for us. I would actually say he was the difference between us winning and losing the title in that 10/11 season. He was different class in the second half of the season.

I followed his progress down at Everton to begin with when he was doing well and as he has phased out of the team I haven't paid much attention to the situation. You appear to know much more about it then me mate so I can only take your word on the attitude thing etc.

As for Naismith, any EFC fans I've seen speaking about him have slated him. I liked Naismith at Rangers, but since he went there he's taken a lot of stick from what I have seen Ed. {Ed007's Note - Moyes played Naismith as a left-winger which didn't really give him a chance to show what he can do, even when they were at Rangers I rated Naismith a better player who didn't get the credit he deserved.
Jelavic's father was hawking his son all around England and Europe, he openly said in the press that his son was about to sign for Liverpool, Man Utd and Hamburg. I don't know about the Germans but I know for a fact that LFC and Man Utd never had any interest in the player, both seen him as nothing better than they had in their reserves and youths. All the stories in the press about teams being interested in Jelavic came from him and his father who were openly trying to engineer a move away from Ibrox. The player told McCoist on the Monday, face to face, that he wanted to move to England and would never play for Rangers again if they didn't sell him during that window. Everton were the only club in England that had shown any interest and the deal was rushed through.}

Btw Ed007, I am well aware being an ex-Rangers player doesn't mean you are/were a good player. We've had some stinkers lol. I will only ever go with my own opinion that I have developed over the time watching a player. I can't stand folk who come up with an opinion based on pure hearsay. Football will always be about opinions, but for me that opinion must always come from what you have seen for yourself.

For example, my uncle (who was a very good player) and me had a debate the other day about C.Ronaldo and Messi. I will defend CR as the best in the world til the day I die. For me he is far better than Messi. However my uncle says Ronaldo isn't in Messi's league. I pulled out all the stats and figures etc on why I believe Ronaldo is superior and my Uncle just said "I watched him for the first time in ages against Sweden and he done nothing in the first leg and he done nothing til the goal. Messi's in a different class." Now how can he justify that opinion when he knows he hardly even watches football nowadays? He was a great player my Uncle, but he doesn't watch enough games now to give a relevant opinion for me. {Ed007's Note - I'd take Ronaldo over Messi ay day. Ronlado could walk into any team in the world, in any league and playing any style of football and instantly improve that team. Messi could only do that if the team was already playing a Tiki taki style of play or were changing towards it.
The Barca team is built around Messi and the whole club is taught the same way of playing, where as Ronaldo can play just as effective as a RW/LW/CAM/SS/STR, I've even seen him drop so deep he is playing a CM.
Ronaldo can also read a game much better than Messi and is much more tactically aware which is notable in how his game adjusts in certain matches.}

A wouldn't doubt his ability as a player pretty sure he had as good a goal scoring record in Scotland as hooper, didn't score in the bigger games but think scoring in the EPL against big clubs puts that to bed. Always thought he had the edge over hooper just that little bit extra quality some cracking goals. But having said that wouldn't touch him, his attitude sucks and he wasn't shy in having things to say about us.

Wasn't aware of any of that Ed, cheers for the info. Also I agree 100% re Ronaldo & Messi debate. Ronaldo all day for me.

What team in the world could messi not walk in2 and make it better anymore so than Ronaldo? The two of them have unbelievable quality that would better any team. Would Xavi, Pedro, ineista, busquetes not be able play in another team that plays tiki taki football . {Ed007's Note - Well he couldn't walk into the Madrid team. I would say he would struggle to play in the German or Italian league or at least take time to adapt his game, so that's not instant success is it. He would be practically useless for any team that plays long high balls up the park. Ronaldo's adaptability and all round ability is only comparable to Zidane's, Messi so far has shown he only knows how to play one way.
I fully expect Messi to leave Barca in the next 2/3 years and I'll bet you just now one of the main reasons is for a fresh challenge to test himself, even Guardiola went looking for a new challenge, it is what footballers at the very top level thrive on and Guardiola had been getting more and more doubters and hearing more and more murmurs about whether he could manage another top team, that is why Man City never made any concrete move for him, they were unsure about his lack of experience and adaptability to the English game.
Do you think Henrik Larsson proved his doubters wrong about how he could only score goals in Scotland, an accusation that was made time and time again by his detractors?}

That's an opinion fair enough but a wouldn't say its one shared by most people in football.
In ma opinion messi would run riot in Germany he his ten times the player of ribery, Italy he would b a success straight away prob wouldn't score as many goals but it's a more defensive league. You could only assume Ronaldo would do it in both those leagues as he hasn't played in them either. Any good player would struggle playing long balls punted up the park Pirlo, ineista. But sure messi speed and intelligence would have him on to the 2nd ball in a flash.
Larsson was doubted by some because the standard of league. The Spanish league isn't bog standard.
In ma opinion he would walk in to the real team along side Ronaldo. Who would keep him out di Maria, benzene lol.
There isn't 1 manager that wouldn't want him same as Ronaldo. {Ed007's Note - Exactly, Larsson needed to leave to prove he could be a success outside his comfort zone (Celtic/Scotland), the same as Guardiola done, the same as Mourinho done when he went to Italy and the same as Messi will do when he leaves Barca. He will want to know for himself if he can do it in other leagues/countries. Ronaldo has already been a success at two of the biggest clubs in the world.
And don't get me started on that clown Bale that you share a name with, one of the most over-rated players on the game the last few years, he is more an athlete than a footballer and when he loses that initial burst of pace he will get found out. I never rated him at Spurs, I was delighted Man Utd never signed and was gutted that Madrid did. I don't think Giggs place in Welsh footballing history is under threat from Bale, the money Real paid was astonishing, I would much rather have seen them try to steal Gotze from under Bayern's noses.}

For all your examples of players managers leaving there is an example of players staying Del Piero, Maldini, giggs, canizares. Point is you don't have to leave to be known as world class. If you choose to do so, so be it. Messi already plays in a top notch league has won all there is to win worth note in club football and personnel achievements.
Larsson had to prove a point because the league he played in was of a poor standard.
So who would keep messi out the Real team? Do you think think Ancelotti wouldn't want messi?
Argentina 37 goals in 83 games {Ed007's Note - We'll need to agree to disagree (for now) I need to go out for a couple of hours. It was nice chatting to you. Oh and Ronaldo would keep Messi out of the Madrid team ;)

Monkeybhoy you've kinda made the point for Ed007- of the four mentioned, Del Piero, Maldini, Giggs, Canizares, I've only ever heard of Maldini in terms of greatest ever. Giggs' big problem was that he was never able to showcase his undoubted talent on the world stage. I'd argue that Canizares shouldn't be on a list with the others and Del Piero, while a great player, is exactly the type of player Ed is talking about- someone who never proved it anywhere else. A Juventus legend? Yes. World? Not so much.

Good debate lads defo Messi for me. What I would like to say though is if you ever played the game that good players can play ANY position.Ed you really need to get over this Barca thing lol while I a fan I also like watching Real. You simply cannot deny the football they play is brilliant and possible the best ever seen, tiki taki or not lol.

Rayman, that's the point! If you had to choose from Messi and Ronaldo as to who could play in any position, Ronaldo, no questions!

Thepoeticpatient, your missing the point good players can play ANYWHERE there is no doubt both are not good they are great. All 6 forward positions could be played by either quite easily. If u ever watch barca Messi is most dangerous pickin the ball up in centre midfield and off and runnin playin 1-2s etc.As for playin defence neither would be a natural defender but when your thatgood your reading of the game comes into and speed of thought.Both would be outstanding because of the time they would make for themselves because that's what good players do.Moore Beckenbaur Baresi were never natural defenders just great players.

I don't think I am. You're saying that Messi is better than Ronaldo and then mentioning that great players can play in any position as part of the conversation. I have played the game and trust me, I'd take Ronaldo to be more adept at playing ALL positions than Messi- not just the forward ones.

@13 ha most of us on here have played the game! Who did you play for? You believe because you played the game your in the know. What about Roy Keane? He played the game too.

Maybe you should read what I was replying to and you'll see why I mentioned that. There is such a thing called context- look it up.

I'm not going to even ask what Roy Keane has to do with anything.