Celtic Banter Archive October 24 2013

24 Oct 2013 22:48:37
How much would have purchased finnbogasson and kept Wanyama and Hooper? £15m?
When u think about it, it's not much for what would have been a massively talented squad this year.
Just when we get strong in defense our midfield and strike force weakens.

How much would Celtic get for winning through from last 16 to last eight? Was it £23m last year? How much more for winning through and is it worth the financial gamble to try? Is there a Celtic sugar daddy out there with £15m to help us to the next level? {Ed007's Note - We don't need a sugar daddy, that's the galling part for me. Look at the difference Ozil has made to Arsenal this year? I'm not for a minute saying we could dream about spending £40m but Arsenal have spent that to help cement their place in the CL spots with Tottenham breathing down their neck to try and break into the top 4.
In the grand scheme of things and the context of income, we should be able to, spend £5+ million on a player who will 'guarantee' we will consistently qualify for the group stages at least. The accounts have never looked healthier and it's about time the club done speculating to accumulate. The Hooper and Wanyama money was not included in the latest set of accounts,
I fully expect CFC to announce record profits next year which is all well and good but you also need to also try and keep the squad fresh, exciting and appealing to the fans. How many more bums on seats would a Finnbogason level signing have brought in? It's all fine and well to sell season tickets but you still need to get fans their on matchdays and the players on the park are the way to do that.}

Did hooper want to stay?
Did Wanyama want to stay?
Do we know if Finbogason wanted to come?
Squad weakens because players use us as a stepping stone, down to the Scottish league

I'm getting really sick of our supporters banging on about keeping payers who don't want to stay and signing players who don't want to come. Give lennon and the board a break, they've done incredibly well in the last few years in the transfer market and will continue to do so.

How many of you have even seen finbogason play? hardly any i'd bet. His stats are marginally better than boerigters in the dutch league and the bottom line is he didn't want to come. We shouldn't go begging players to play for us.

As for hooper, good luck to him, he seems to think playing for norwich will get him an england call up (the boy is clearly not blessed with brains) but he'll get nowhere near the team. in fact i'd say he won't get into double figures for norwich this season.

Wanyama is a special case, we'll never knock back £12.5m for anyone and neither we should. Crazy money.

For me its not about transfer fees, i'd like to see us push the boat out a bit in terms of wages. There are a lot of bosmans about every summer and if we could push to £40/50k a week we'd be competitve in that market with the offer of CL football. You can justify it over 3/4 years as a £3m/4m transfer fee + £20k a week.

Right then Gerry, name me some players that you have seen play regularly, that will be available as Bosmans and will take £40/50k a week wages AND more importantly will come to Scotland? Have you forgotten that players on Bosman deals demand higher signing on fees and perks in their contracts?

We would then have to pay them £40/50k a week plus say a £2million signing fee, over a 4 year contract that is an extra £10k a week on their wages before we even talk about any bonuses. People are only using Finnbogason as an example as we know we tried to sign him in the summer and it is a signing the fans wanted, it would also have shown the club was backing the manager and given the fans a massive boost.

Instead of buying Pukki, Balde and Bangura I would think we could have got a higher standard of player if we had poolled the resources from those three transfers and used it to push the boat out on one signing that is a level above what has become our usual standard of constantly buying cheap and hoping it works out for us. Sometimes you just need to pay the going rate and see that you get what you pay for.

I can see where the editor is coming from about becoming a consistent CL team, the board gambled this year and they are very lucky it paid off, we shouldn't be gambling with qualification, we should be buying players that will guarantee it, as much as there are any guarantees in football. The board consistently let the manager and his backroom staff down but even more importantly they are letting the fans down with their constant bargain hunting and fear of paying top dollar for top players. If Pukki or Balde were Lennon's first choice of strikers then he should be sacked, that might seem a bold statement but that's how confident I am that neither of them were anywhere near the top of Lennon's list of targets.

So instead of just rubbishing people talking about Finnbogason perhaps you could offer up some alternatives, you seem to know the criteria of players we should be looking for but let's hear some names from you then?

Never Forget, Never Forgive. {Ed007's Note - I'm not saying we should spend £5+ million on players for every position Che but when it comes to strikers we need to pay the going rate, that rate has went up. Even in the Championship where we got Hooper from, he would be a £4/5m player if he was still playing there now. As for Pukki I think he will prove to be a good player when he gets the chance to play alongside an out and out goalscorer, him and Stokes are too similar to play in the same team but I would agree with you that he was never a first choice signing.}

The point is finbogason made it clear he wasn't interested in coming to scotland, as far back as july, yet for some reason our fans got hung up on his name. No one is going to tell me they knew for a fact he was better than hooper, pukki, balde, anyone - he was an unknown.

There's very little difference in quality between £1-£5m players these days, its your luck how quickly they adapt and how good your scouts are. Real guaranteed quality only begins around £10m which is not where celtic are.

Guys at that level won't consider much less than £50k pw so logic dictates if we want players of that calibre they're more than likely going to be free transfers. Off the top of my head - Flamini, Garrido, Tonev, Eto'o(!).

I'm not an expert on european football (like most) bar what I know from fifa/football manager. But that's not my job, i'm not a scout - i'm sure we were looking at several players over the summer and we signed 2/3(if inc boerigter) strikers. we can't afford an eggs in one basket mentality - what if he got injured in the first week, or didn't settle?

From players I know of i'd have been happy with kevin doyle - much better than stokes and hooper (and possible pukki and balde - even though i'm not judging them yet), possibly chris wood from leicester or if we could have swung it adam le fondre.

Did wee not get joe Ledley on a free transfer? Think that quite clearly shows there out there {Ed007's Note - Ledley, Matthews and Wilson were all brought in on Bosman deals MB.}

@2 I still think using us as a stepping stone should be used more to our advantage, in that we can showcase the world`s up and coming talent. If done right by getting them on a reasonable length of contract to protect our investment, they can, if good enough, attract interest by doing well, they then move, we make cash to do same again. The reality is we will always find it hard to keep exceptional talent due to finance and location, so better to make it work in your favour.

chasaboy

24 Oct 2013 19:38:44
Evening guys, well Tuesday night finally came, I'm usually always loving a CPL night but Tuesday was different.
My youngest son Lewis was walking out onto the sacred turf of paradise as a wee mascot.
AMAZING.! My heart was in my mouth, wondering what the wee man was thinking? He took it in his stride and made me the happiest (always been proud) i'd been in a long time. I don't think it had sunk into him until in the car on the way home :)
Not the greatest of games but a great result to top off what will be great memories for me and my son for yrs to come.
I've tried to put a picture up Ed, not sure if it will work? If it does? Unfortunately Lewis didn't get to walk out with one if his favourites, he came out with Daley Blind of Ajax, 4th from the end closest to the officials (wee red head, almost beside the keeper)

Bigbadjohn {Ed007's Note - Good stuff BBJ, I'm sure the wee man had a great time. Here's your picture:

www.celticrumours.co.uk/ar_517.php

Cheers Ed, I don't think he's realised what it means but loved it none the less. My older son was effin raging leading up to it but proud as punch for his wee bro :). Thanks again Ed for helping with the pic.

Bigbadjohn {Ed007's Note - I think it's shocking that being a mascot isn't open to all ages, I'd still love to do it! I did try to wangle the Hoopy job but the general feeling was gauged somewhere between that 'I was daft enough' and 'Aye, that's all he needs'.}

Fantastic!

Definitely one for the family photo album John

Aww Ed that's no fair, everybody would love the chance to be an eejit in desguise where they can entertain without getting a Beamer :)
There's also a height restriction for the mascots, but then get asked to kneel so makes no sense?
There looked to be a few over the height and age limit, the sponsors are just happy all kids turn up and have a signed consent form, but I'm sure it would still rule out you or I Ed.

Bigbadjohn

Lovely. Fifteen years time who knows mate? Running out for real!

Now your talkin GJ. that wins hands down, the way he's going you never know but being in the central belt it's not what you know it's who you know.

MRS E, you had me at Fantastic :)

Cheers guys it was the best.

Bigbadjohn

25 Oct 2013 00:25:23
Get him running out for The Celtic you mean GJ, never knew you had a soft spot for Real.Stevie

@6 of course GJ is a massive real fan, so much so he has posters of Ronaldo in his house, joking love reading the big mans posts. Best poster on here

24 Oct 2013 09:44:28
I am thinking ahead to January and next summer transfer window.
Our squad just now looks OK.
Forster, Zaluska, Lustig, Mathews, Ambrose, Van Dijk, Izzuiguirre, Forest, McGeugh, Kayal, Mulgrew, Samaras, Stokes, Pukki, Ledley, Biton,
Balde, Rogic, Atajic, Fisher, Brown, Henderson.
(I have probably forgotten one or two others)
We know we have some outstanding young players coming through also in our U19 team.
So here is my idea.
This season Lennon spent about £7m+ on 5 players, why not use that budget next time to buy ONE MARQUEE PLAYER. A proven goalscorer.
Rhodes/Finbogason or some player like that.
We need to obviously keep Ledley, Sammy and Stokes with decent contract offers, because to replace just those 3 would use up the whole budget plus wages on top.
Promote some of our young talented players to first team squad, keep majority of squad already here and add our marquee goalscorer.
I would be happy with that, what are your thoughts everybody? Timalloy

Sounds good but the reality is youth rarely get a run at celtic so I expect Atajic mcgeouch Henderson Irvine to be or go on loan again. Stokes looks to be on his way, Sammy says he will stay but has no contract offer same for Ledley will Kayal be kept? Big Forster could very well head in the summer so doubt only 1 signing will be required.
Jim

Meant to add I think commons is also out of contract in the summer. Do you know if any of the top players out of contract this summer coming have clauses that the club can keep them for 1 more year? As they appear reluctant to offer extensions

Sounds good in theory, alas the problem I envisage there is that the type of "marquee" signing you mention would be able to command and receive a wage in the EPL that would be away above the wage structure at CFC. if we were to change our wage structure to accommodate such a "marquee" signing, I guarantee then there would be most of our other players knocking on the managers door looking for a rise in line with the wages being paid to the "marquee" signing, quite simply, CFC cannot afford to pay the same or near the over-inflated wages on offer in the EPL, we do not have the advantage of massive payments of £millions from TV revenue that's being paid to EPL clubs, sadly we are always going to be a selling club, already the richer clubs down south and elsewhere are looking at Van Dyjk who I think has been a tremendous signing and I doubt we will hold onto him if a big offer comes in, that, I'm afraid is the reality of the situation, at the moment, we as a club are doing brilliant to compete at CL level, constantly punching above our weight, not with bigger clubs, there are no bigger clubs than us, but with richer clubs that can pay bigger transfer fees, pay massive wages, therefore attract the best players, that is why we, CFC have to look at every avenue of bringing in more revenue to the club, so we can carry on competing with the Barca's, Milan's, Man utd's etc and why I would be in favour of selling naming rights to our stadium as one of the polls suggests.
Finn

How much do you think Rhodes would cost? Did Blackburn not sign him for 8m am sure his wages would be quite high. He has been scoring for fun in a pretty poor team so a can't see Blackburn selling at a loss unless he out contract soon.
Have never seen finboggason of even heard of him before a came on this site, am sure he's a good player but there's been a number of free scoring strikers in the Dutch league that go on to other leagues and don't continue to be so.
Think we must have spent closer to 10m pukki 2.2m, balde 1.8m, van dyk 2.2m, borigter 3m, biton 0.8m
Would like go see the youth get more of a chance to be honest there was a lot of hype about mcgeouch but av never really seen him afew games here and there, dnt really no his true position {Ed007's Note - The £8m fee for Rhodes was dependant on certain conditions being met i.e promotion to the EPL. Failure on this alone has taken a large chunk out of what Huddersfield will receive. Wigan came very close to signing Rhodes in the summer with an offer circa £6/6.5 million again though this included add ons and the player was keen on the move. I do think CFC could come up with a deal that would suit Blackburn but Rhodes wages of £40-45k a week would be the main problem. Blackburn are having some financial difficulties that could get a lot worse forcing them to sell Rhodes, I would be (pleasantly) surprised to see him at CFC though.}

24 Oct 2013 13:36:34
I knew I had missed someone sorry Commons and Boerighter.
As for the salaries, I suspect the senior players like Ledley, Samaras and Stokes are holding out for £25k+ weekly. But Lennon has done well keeping the wage bill down each year, so I would offer those 3 players around about those wages, as to replace them would cost the club more.
To address the "marquee wages" thing, it could be structured say £30k, plus bonuses, plus big signing on fee. Therefore not breaking the bank too much and if we reach CL groups over next 2/3 seasons easily affordable. Also Celtic could insert a minimum sell on clause protecting the club if a bid comes in. Timalloy

Don't get wrong a would love to see him sign Ed, just can't see us spending over 6.5m on a player then on top of that wages aswell. And to be honest a don't think we should be spending that kind of money on 1 player the way football is in Scotland just now. {Ed007's Note - The thing that annoys me about it all is the fact that the majority of transfers are paid in instalments over the duration of the player's contract, so a £6m fee over 5 years is only £1.2m per season. If we are playing in the CL every season and Rhodes is scoring the goals the fee is more than offset against the CL money he is helping the club earn. Granted there is other factors to a transfer but we are talking about it in a simplified context.
It all comes down to the wages though and I have said before I would like to see the club raise the top level of pay to say £30k a week, it would certainly help entice players.
Again looks at Rhodes situation as an example, he is a CFC fan, he is a Scottish internationalist, he is young and is a proven goalscorer and he will have a sell-on value, especially if he can prove himself in the CL. Would he take a drop in basic wages and accept a performance based bonus system to play for the team he supports, a chance to play in the CL and to be more in the spotlight for international recognition?
I'm sorry but I disagree that we shouldn't be looking at the odd player at £5+ million, if it is the right player and they are going to improve the team at CL level. That's the level of player I would like to see us signing to compliment players we have produced through our own academy. I don't mean looking to spend that amount on a player for every position, but if a player is identified as someone who can improve the team and help us become a consistent CL team then the board should push the boat out IMO.
Instead of just being happy with CL qualification we should be looking to firstly, becoming consistent participants and then be aiming for the last 16, or dropping down to the EL at worst. That would show that the team and the club are progressing rather than it looking like we are gatecrashing the party and just happy to be there. We are very close to being at the level I realistically want the team to be, results in Europe have proven that, but to get to the next level we either need to raise the wages we pay to help entice quality Bosman signings or to pay that bit extra for a couple of players.
We are badly, and obviously, in need of a quality No.10 (a Lubo type of player) and a quality out and out goal-scorer, we aren't going to get either by the looks of things and we will continue to struggle in Europe as long as that is the case.
CFC should have came away from Milan with at least a point and the same against Barca at CP but until the board start sanctioning deals for a better level of player we will stagnate and continue to be happy to settle for getting patronising pats on the head from the bigger European clubs. Just the exact same way we do with teams who fill their stadium and give us a hard game in a cup competition.
Personally and for footballing reasons of course, I would rather these teams hated facing us and hated playing at Celtic Park, that's when you know you are doing something right.}

A hear what your saying and wish we could do that . Paying in instalments sounds ok but after the first year the fans will want another top signing whilst were still paying off the last 6m signing and again the year later, next thing you kno the first player has left for free and were still paying for him. This not including the other positions we would still have to strengthen.
We spent big under Oneil and never made the last 16 and the best couple of players we've signed in the last while Lubo and larsson were both under 1m.
A just think playing in Scotland will always hamper our ambition.
It's a curse a tell ye {Ed007's Note - It's all about finding the right balance, we seem to have found it for where we are today but we should really be looking at continually evolving and improving. I know what you mean about the fans would want top signing after top signing but they should start to look at the bigger picture.
We will never need to spend big bucks on defenders but our problems are at the other end of the field, quality attacking players and strikers cost money. Instead of wasting £4/5 million on signing 2/3 strikers why not spend the £4/5m on one proven striker?
We always seem to be looking around for bargain signings whereas sometimes you have to just bite the bullet and pay the going rate for the quality of player that is required.}

If we can keep this squad together and permanently promote 4 or 5 youngsters I see no reason why we can't spend 6 or 7 mill on marquee signing. I know wages is problem but why can't they put on same level as current top earners and pay bigger signing on fee maybe to be paid in form of loyalty bonus at end of each window. Half mill twice a year equates to extra 20k ayear

Monkey bhoy, well written and exactly what I and a number of fans been saying on here for a while only to be shot down with the usual comments about going into admin etc etc. we r a well run club and with the odd top quality addition will not see us following the path of a previous Glasgow club who went to the wall. There is feeling among many fans now of a glass ceiling and that in part has been created by the noises coming out of the board room and Lennon. Stevo dundee {Ed007's Note - Thanks Stevo, that's the term I was trying to think of, 'glass ceiling', that's exactly what it seems like.}

Ha ha should say 20k a week above

24 Oct 2013 20:26:46
Ed you've hit it bang on when you say quality strikers don't come cheap. We seem to be in the habit of buying strikers with poor goal scoring records, surely when we buy a striker we should be looking at their previous seasons tally, this 10 one season, 12 the next is no use, in my book if a striker is consistently only scoring 10 or 12 a season and is going for £2 million is a total waste of money which is what we seem to be buying these days. As you said the striking position is the one position we should be splashing out on more so than the defensive areas, speaking of that what a signing Van Dijk has been, you can see already that he's the real deal. Anyway back to strikers and I would love to see us buying a proven consistent 25 to 30 goal a season player, Rhodes or Finbogesson in my mind aren't a gamble those two would score goals anywhere and would pay their way with goals, whether they would play in the SPL is another thing. So no more 10 goal a season £2 million duds, proven consistent goalscorers only, or give the youth a chance. Stevie {Ed007's Note - VVD is looking like he could be a great find, I've said it numerous times, you don't get many bad or technically poor players from Holland. I am disappointed by Boerrigter though as I was expecting him to have the same sort of impact on the team as van Dijk, hopefully once he is fit we will see how good he is. Overall it seems that me and you are thinking along the same lines regarding what we need to do to improve.}

Ed, must apologise. I misread the post and gave all kudos to monkey bhoy @6!
It was ure reply I was in total agreement with.
Ps monkey bhoy, still think we're in agreement
Stevo dundee

Am certainly warming to the idea of splashing a bit more money on a striker, think you can get proving goalscorers for 3-4 m but, hooper was less.
Would you spend say 4/5m on a special player and sacrifice any other buys over the 1m mark and take more of a gamble on your youth team.

You've got to watch bringing in a big wage player, because it can upset existing players in a team, who might want the same pay. Jonnybhoy