Celtic Banter Archive August 23 2014

23 Aug 2014 22:54:25
Ed do u think we will lose commons this window? And do u think it would be a good idea to let him go if we get a half decent fee?

{Ed007's Note - Yes and yes :)

I think Commons may have run his course @ Celtic.

He had a great goal scoring season last year but even though he did I still don't think he has the creative spark we require. In games last year when we required someone to take the game by the scruff of the neck, he just could not deliver.

Same yesterday, when things are getting frustrating and teams are sitting in, he and others round about him lack ideas. Time to find someone who puts teams to the sword and bums on seats.

Kris a great servant and does a lot of good charity work with his wife, which can only be good for the club; but we are first and foremost a football club so if its time for Kris to be replaced so be it.

24 Aug 2014 12:31:52
I don't understand why we can't keep him plus add someone creative? It would give the new guy an easier start to life at Celtic. Kris is our best player! If Delia used him and Griffiths properly then we would be more dangerous up front. But Delia thinks Griffiths is a winger for some reason and Kris is a centre forward? I just really don't like Delia, he makes the same mistakes Mowbray made with his 4 3 3 crap. Last season we had the same problem with one up front, we bought Griffiths started playing 442 again and started scoring lots of goals, Delia if he has done his research on our players would know this and is choosing to play the team wrong.

@Darrenbhoy: Really? The guy is in the process of changing our style, a style more suited to the Celtic traditions by the way. He wants hard work and energy, if a player can't deliver that then they must be stupid. A pressing game works with a unit working together.Did Griffiths or Commons press any Caley defender yesterday? No.

Always a good idea to sell our best player (not) after all the threads on here about our signings are poor and can't replace with same calibre, you now want to sell our best player, that just doesn't make sense.

{Ed007's Note - We'd be much better off keeping him and losing him for buttons in January or for nothing next summer, there's plenty of sense in that plan Raymundo, and I'd say VvD is our best player. It's obvious something isn't right, whether it's the contract situation or RD just doesn't fancy Commons as a player I don't know, but with his inclusion yesterday I'd be surprised to see him start on Tuesday, otherwise why wasn't he rested? I'd have thought someone like yourself who champions the board's penny-pinching ways would rather see money come in than allow a player to leave for free? Isn't it the board's remit to maximise income?}

Ed your right soon as I saw him in the team I don't expect him to start tues, but he is our best player bar none, VVD is class but he is a defender since when were defenders better players than forwards lol. There is a reason their a defender because if they were better they would be forwards.No point in takin money for him at his age we won't get much and there absolutely no chance of getting better for the money we would get.

{Ed007's Note - Are you sitting with your pants on your head and pencil's stuck up your nose? I remember seeing Paulo Maldini playing and thinking to myself 'He's no' bad, but he's no Wayne Biggins!'}

Yeah but you never seen maldini play up there lol, Pele told Beckenbaur he was so good he should be a striker, his reply was "you jokin I would be rubbish"

{Ed007's Note - Come on, that's an outrageous statement, even for you!}

@5. Total and utter nonsense- if they were better, they would be forwards.

A forward is totally different job description from a defender, requiring different skills. Football is a natural talent, each player has a natural talent for one or more position.

Do you actually know anything about football?

I remember reading last year we only sold our better players when they insisted in going. Has that been changed or are Commons demands totally unreasonable .

Eh DN the dutch have the players play in alll the positions when they young and progressing to pro level.They find their position thro time, dalglish started as a goalie.What I saying is football is easy when you facing the game it is much more difficult with your back to goal.You ask any pro the hardest part of the game? and they will tell you its putting the ball in the back o the net.Its no coincidence they are the most important part o the team (and most expensive) just look at ours the now.Ed you can't compare biggins lol, I talking about players at the same level, he was an amateur compared to maldini.

{Ed007's Note - 'since when were defenders better players than forwards'

'There is a reason their a defender because if they were better they would be forwards.'

Isn't that what you typed?
Can I ask what professional players have told you putting the ball in the net is the hardest part of the game? Most I know say the hardest position to play in is midfield - it requires both endurance, speed and vision, as well as the ability to control the ball on the field. MF is unlike any other position in that they have to be both offensive and defensive, you are also playing in the area where the majority of the play is.
Do you think it's easier to save a goal than score one, the ratio of penalties saved to penalties scored says otherwise. I remember even when I was young playing up the park with my mates the fat kid got papped in goals and the one with no touch/control/speed was told to just stand about the opposition goal an 'mooch'. Going along with your thinking Ally McCoist was a better player than Paul McStay!
Oh - and as far as I can see you've still not answered my Wanyama question......}

Ed lovin the banter you will need to remind me about the wanyama one lol.If you played football at any decent level and I sure you have you can play great football all day long but if you not got someone to put the ball in the net then its pretty pointless.A goal scorer is the most important part of the team, any manager will tell you that. Let me ask you a question, whilst Mcstay was a great player and legend, did the rangers fans shiit themselves when he got the ball 50 yards out and made a good pass?Or did we shiit ourselves when Mccoist got it in the box?

{Ed007's Note - You didn't say more important, you said they were better players, there's a huge difference. If it's that important then why did Barcelona dominate La Liga and the CL without playing any strikers, they used a False 9, as did Spain when they won the World Cup and Euros.
I asked if you thought we would have signed Wanyama if Beerschoot wanted £1.5 - 2 million for him?

Ed yeah barca did and who was the most important and best player in their team? Yep your best pal Messi.Last I saw he was a striker.Its not an exact science and there may always be an exception to the rule but generally forwards are just better players than defenders. Wanyama? I can't answer that maybe we would have mayebe not.

{Ed007's Note - You've changed it from strikers to forwards are generally better players, that's not what you said initially. Xavi is widely regarded as the most important player for Barca in recent years, closely followed by Iniesta, anyone who knows anything about football will tell you that, they pulled the strings and controlled the game, like Zidane, Figo, Baggio, Scholes, Lampard, Schweinsteiger, Yaya Toure, Wesley Sneijder, Steven Gerrard etc, you don't see many strikers controlling a game do you? Are Real Madrid really weakened if Benzama isn't playing or would it be worse for them if Ronaldo was injured? Holland can cope without RVP but they really struggle without Sneijder playing, why's that?
I think what you mean is that strikers get the glory and the praise from the media and fans which makes them more marketable and they are placed on a pedestal, it doesn't mean they are the best footballers or the most important players.
Kudos on avoiding answering the Wanyama question, I think we all know the answer though. Another thing - Messi isn't a striker, but that's us going back to tactics, and neither is Kris Commons.}

Forward/strikers/poachers, goalscorers call them what you will they still the best players on the park.And the most important.Ed I had respect for your opinion till you said messi not a striker lol.Is he a MF? No. defender? No.I know you dislike him but he is most definitely a forward.Check the barca website if you don't believe me it defo says forward.

{Ed007's Note - A forward is totally different from a striker, a striker is someone like Drogba, RVP or Higuaín. If Higuaín is the main striker for Argentina where does Messi play? Would Messi play up top (the strikers position) himself in a 4-2-3-1 formation or would he play in the middle or the left hand side of the 3? Why can't James Forrest replace Scott Brown in the middle for us, they're both midfielders, check the CFC website if you don't believe me, it defo says midfielders.
Tactics and the intricacies of the game aren't your strong point so we'll just talk about GKs, defenders, midfielders and strikers from now on so you can understand it. I'm off to bed now, remind me tomorrow and I'll explain what wingers and full-back are if you ask nicely.
In fact, why don't you have a play around with our new team/formations app here, you might even learn something.....I said might!}

Lol I can't believe how ridculous that conversation was! Rayman you come up with some belters but that nonsense is well and truely taking the biscut!

I have to laugh at this whole debate - if you want to call it that.

The very fact that we are crying out for a Striker, when we have a plethora of Forwards, contradicts you Rayman.

As well as which, to say Forward's are better footballers is ridiculous. I played professionally, as a forward, and I can say hand on hard, when asked to play in defence I was hopeless. They are totally different skillsets - for one, in my experience, "putting the ball in the back of the net" is largely instinctive. Defending on the other hand is the opposite. Going with instinct, for the most part, is usually a rash tackle. It's a football brain, it's intelligence and, it's a series of split second decisions: who to track, where to move - how is your partner, what's his position, do you cover, do you go to the man, to the ball etc etc. There is a reason a striker can "gamble" on a run - whilst you never hear of a defender "gambling" on a striker's movement. For the most part, it's reactive - and for the best defenders in the world, it really is an art.

Midfield is slightly different as there is a sliding scale. Forward thinking midfielders, Defensive midfielders, or Box to Box (keeping it simple for you here), which are all worlds apart in terms of "position", but if you want to be pedantic, a box to box player would need to be a complete footballer - because he defends, creates and attacks.

As for better footballers. There is a reason when teams need a goal, they often through a defender up front, but when they need to defend, they don't throw a forward into centreback, they sub him and replace him with a defender.

Ok let's simplify it for you, let's use celtic as an example.My statement said forwards are better players than defenders. Stokes, Griffiths commons are our 3 main forwards, they score the most goals.Are they better footballers than efe, lustig, izzy, vvd, our main defenders.Yes they are maybe with the exception of VVd as I said there always an exception to the rule.Now move on to Madrid barca munich which part of their team would you have for Celtic their forward line or their back 3/4?

{Ed007's Note - Does that mean Stokes, Griffiths and Commons are better players than Real Madrid's defenders, you wouldn't swap Leigh Griffiths for Varane, Coentrao or Sergio Ramos? C'mon Raymundo, give your head a wobble, you're trying to tell me that Stokes is a better footballer than Lustig who has consistently played well for us since signing and is our very own Mr Dependable, we've got midfielders that are better footballers than Stokes and Griffiths!
Was John Hartson (a striker) a better footballer than midfielders like Lubo or Nakamura? Was Andy Walker a better footballer than Mick McCarthy who we signed from Lyon or Paul Elliot who was the only English player playing in Italy when we signed him? How on earth did we manage to get £12.5 million for Wanyama and yet we were the only team willing to pay £800k for Leigh Griffiths, shouldn't Griffiths be worth £15m, he scores goals so does that make him a better player than Wanyama?
In fact look, I'm dropping out of this conversation, you're starting to remind me of the Zombies who say Kris Boyd is better than Larsson because he scored more SPL goals.}

Rayman, you're arguments are nothing more than ridiculous straw man examples. If you want it to be simple, here you go. You compare our strikers with Real Madrid's defence? Well Sergio Ramos scored more goals in one Champion's League match, the final, than Anthony Stokes has in his entire career. If you want to go one further, combine the final with (only) one leg of the semi, and Ramos has scored more champions League goals than Kris Common's, Anthony Stokes, Leigh Griffiths, Amido Balde and Teemu Pukki combined - in their entire careers.

23 Aug 2014 21:03:30
Is it just me or was 10 changes just a bit much today.? I could understand 5-6 changes but 10. Inverness is a hard place to get a result at the best of time without playing second string side, some really poor performances today, some guys just not up to challenge.

The sad fact is that we could afford to play half a team most weeks and still win the league. RD felt the wrath of the fans after the Legia games so nobody can be surprised that he was willing to sacrifice today's game to make sure the players are well rested and have the best chance of getting the job done on Tuesday

If you look longer term, is it not better giving younger & fringe players experience, and if 1st team got beat today would have done more damage.

Whatever way you look at it I applaud him for having the balls to do it, can't think of many previous managers doing it, leagues a canter and as yogi said on tv every celtic player on the pitch yesterday would b a starter for his team, maybe rd using that team in the diddy cup might be a way for them to get game time

Kevbhoy are you for real mate?

We could rest half a team each week and still win the league?

On what basis do you come to this conclusion?

Over the past couple of years when players have been rested, we have struggled to get results and the standard of play has been really poor as it was again yesterday.

The players on the fringes of our squad are not good enough, along with some of the first team squad it's a really poor celtic team we are witnessing.

I was really excited last year with the friendly victory against Liverpool but none of the standouts from that day have kicked on and that's a real problem.

Maybe Lennon is being vindicated for saying he didn't play them as they were not good enough; they certainly are not impressing when given the chance.

Fisher, Irvine, chalmers and Fraser are the ones who seem the most likely to make it and hopefully we start to see more of them. Fraser looked really good when playing before his injury.

So let's hope we don't play half a team as I think we would struggle to be in the top three which is sad to say but let's not kid ourselves.

My worry is by not playing his team on Saturday, it could cause the players to become over tense and affect their play
Injuries could easily occur in training as during play . I just hope Deila hasn't made a mistake .

23 Aug 2014 18:36:59
question for all the posters, if malky mckay had been given the job and then this text message story broke would you back him or demand he be sacked

As Celtic manager he would have been backed through thick and thin from all loyal fans! Although morally wrong, who hasn't phoned or went for a chinky? The youth of today call each other gays willy nilly without actually meaning homosexual or lesbian! Personally I think Cardiff are just trying to discredit the man to an extent he doesn't get another managers job but that is just mo!

I would back him what he done was wrong but I am sure if not every one or most say a bad joke that they don't really be leave as true or say something they don't mean to

I know wot you saying del, I stayed in england for best part of a decade and got the usual, jock, sweaty etc. I too think that tan is out to get him, it depends wots on the texts too, I get sent loads of jokes that I find hilarious that these pc brigade would prob deem racist, if I send them on to a mate does that make me a racist, in my head no, but to this pc mob yes, it shows the world we live n where a man sending unpc texts ges more airtime than a man who was kidnapped tortured and beheaded, f***ed up so it is

{Ed007's Note - Have you ever thought the people who control the media are trying to distract our attention from the real issues in today's world?}

Bhoywonder…I would sack him but then again that is not to say that CFC PLC would do likewise

Brill Ed. The fact this even makes the news begs belief.

Yeah ed I know all about the mainstream media, dumbing down etc, I see that with your avatar that your on the same page as myself, but for every shepard there's 1000 sheep, but that's another story for the conspiracy page, not ignorant to wots going on, just think its f***ed up.

{Ed007's Note - I can't argue with you there..

If I was malky I would ask for the same jurors who sat in Neil lennons case re- tynecastle.killy.

@7 with OJ Simpsons lawyer

I think Ed there is a lot of sense in what you say. Any man's reputation is unimportant if it brushes aside news items that we would be better hearing .

23 Aug 2014 17:07:48
Hi bhoys and ghirls does anyone have any info on aleksander tonevs injury . We've had him for a couple of weeks now but still no sign?

20 Aug 2014 22:31:49
Ed what is the story about Alexsandar Tonev
supposed to be injured but for what and for how long?

tony2bhoy

Ed07{Ed007's Note - I was told his injury would keep him out for at least both Maribor and any league matches around them obviously.}

23 Aug 2014 13:33:10
Pukki twardzik maybe even griffiths can move on not up to standard thought young Henderson having a good game though

I was wary of the amount of changes for a usually tough away fixture, but glad RD is utilising the squad.
He will learn from this and know who can do a job and who can do a Paul Daniels - and effin disappear.
By the sounds of him he will not suffer fools or inferior quality gladly.

Pukki and twardzik yeah, griffiths ain't a wide man and commons ain't a cf, dunno why rd persists with it tbh, thought it would make more sense to swap them over. we do need a natural lb to give izzy some competition

Tactics and team selection both wrong, blame lies squarely at the feet of RD .

Ttts,, at least we know why he picked this team and I think he was correct to do so as midweek is our biggest game of the season .

You can only utilise a squad if the squad is good enough which I'm sorry to point out isn't the case with Celtic at the moment. As a team we are not good enough to do this and should be playing our best team every week. Too many changes today with not enough respect shown to the home team.

@3. Aye TTTS your embarrassing yourself

TTTS, personally speaking when I heard the amount of changes RD was making today, I thought there was a chance we'd lose this game. Not for a minute do I blame RD, most managers in his position with a game as big as what we've got next week would have done the same. Did martin Oneil not go to Inverness after beating Liverpool back in 2003 make 6/7 changes and lost the game? U need to get real m8, we'll win this league by a mile again this season. This game coming up against Maribor is what matters more right now, not 3 points dropped against a Inverness side who we'll probably turn over every other time we play them this season!

We should still win the game with that team but let's be honest it doesn't matter our first team has been given rest for a very important game a season defining game so it's a loss let's just forget about it.

In fairness to RD and to the team he picked . We could easily have won the game, we had 3/4 clear cut chances and Bitton had a great shot off the cross bar . Their goal was a comedy of errors .
Make no mistake about it I thought we were poor but could have got away with it .

23 Aug 2014 08:32:09
morning ed, can you tell me how to put the avatar pic on my account?, keeps saying update my browser?, does it not work on vista?, any help would be appreciated, cheers

{Ed033's Note - We have a contact form for technical issues. Yes it does work on vista but, it depends on which Internet Browser you're using and the browser settings.

Try uploading your avatar using the player sightings image upload page and put your username as the picture caption

23 Aug 2014 10:32:23
cheers ed will try that, my internet browser is IE9

{Ed033's Note - Thanks for letting me know which browser

23 Aug 2014 12:01:47
Had to check the date today, crystal palace are in discussions about putting ally Mccoists on their short list for the vacant managers job.no it's not april 1st it's in the daily rag, ah we'll it must be true.killy.

Palace couldn't afford his wages killy

I have it on good authority that Ally's name being linked was an inside job. not from RFC but it was done to legitimise Ally and to get fans at home off his back…he needs good press. he is under pressure. hence story about Gazza and the like…diversion tactics to buy the time to get a few points on the board…ally going to palace would be as likely as inverness beating celtic….erm.

23 Aug 2014 00:04:13
Guys lots of threads on here about how we got to spend this spend that and we are a diminishing team as selling our best players whilst not replacing.Whilst there is an argument for that what about this for a theory as our only comparison is Europe.I for 1 think football in the last 3 years has gone stratospheric regarding transfers and the football on show. We just had the best world cup ever (apparantly) and now with the best 3 teams in Europe (Barca, Real, Munich) starting to dominate, look at their strike force it is incredible and I don't think I have seen this in my lifetime 3 great teams with such power and ability up front. So my point is not so much that we are getting worse I think others are getting so much better and the gulf is huge now and we simply cannot compete.Unless we unearth 11 Lisbon lions very shortly I don't see it changing.

{Ed007's Note - Nobody's expecting us to challenge the Real Madrids or Bayern Munichs but surely we should be competing with teams with the same ballpark income and teams we outspend? The problem we have is the money we do spend isn't spent wisely.
A player who caught my eye at the World Cup was Bosnia's DM Muhamed Besic, he was a bit rash at times and showed some poor judgement in the tackle but so did Wanyama when he first came here and that's who Besic reminded me of, and he can cover CB like Wanyama. Everton signed him for £4 million and £28k a week wages, that's an investment, if he stays at Everton for 10 years they have got what looks like a bargain, if he impresses and leaves it will be to a big CL team for mega-money, it's win win for Everton, even if he flops they will at least get their money back and I don't doubt so would we.
We have to break through the financial ceiling for the right players but more importantly we need to stop comparing ourselves to EPL teams, nobody else in Europe works like that, compare ourselves to the Dutch league, the mid/lower level La Liga and Bundesliga teams, that's a better comparison.
The first thing players think of is money, if you're not spending you don't even get out the starting block, surely it's not asking too much that the board push the boat out for one or two quality signings every summer? Hopefully with RD's work behind the scenes any 'marquis' signings would only be the cherry on the cake to players we produce or projects.
We are selling our star players and replacing them with, at best, mediocrity. Would you rather see us have millions in the bank and struggling against teams like Maribor and Legia or see us compete with teams at our own level? If our stadium is packed out that income takes us ever closer to other teams as well, if you have a quality team on the park that playing attractive football and winning you will fill your stadium, give fans what they want and they will pay to watch it? Would you pay to watch a film at the cinema your mate told you he fell asleep watching?
Going with your thinking, Ray, teams like Dortmund, Atletico Madrid, Liverpool or Juventus shouldn't bother buying players because they have no chance of winning the CL over your Real Madrids and Bayern Munichs? Why do other teams even bother?}

Rayman, you are an advertisers dream, you believe all the hype, football is a simple game, 99% of it is about confidence, once in a while you get truly great players like gruyf, maradona, pele, beckenbauer, johnstone, best, and some others I can't recall, todayn I could not mention one that is as good as those, but they are marketed like they are, germany are good, but they are well coached and are very fit, maybe that is the way forward for the tic, until someone special comes along, another thing during the world cup, Iwas very impressed by the ghana team, I think when they were playing germany, they had a lot of young skilful footballers, I hope that the new celtic guy was one of them.

Rayman once again you have proven you live in a wee fantasyland.

Its fairly straight forward- we will never be able to compete with these teams on a level par finacially. Not one mentally stable celtic supporter expects us to.

Operating on a budget like celtics, means money should be spent wisely and not squandered on poor quality substandard players.

Your always going on about players that lennon signed, making a profit. truth is vast majority have been duds and with bumper pay days recieved for a few players this has pulled him out the $hit.

My point is, the vast majority of squad were signed by lennon. If we are getting worse as you put it, who is to blame?

Ed you have consistently said about raising the salary for players. ok let's take Besic as a example.4m and 30k a wk is nothing to Everton but its our top earner and the best part of 10m over 3 years and what if it doesn't work out, and also soon as you do that Commons Brown etc would be knocking Lawwells door asking for the same.In the current climate its not going to happen.Also the teams you mention Livepool Juve etc consistently produce their own youngsters at a high level we cant.They are far closer to the top 3 than we will ever be. @Dn you really need to learn to read I never said we were getting worse I said others are getting better. Unless celtic do what you want your not happy so its you mate that's not in the real world you simply cannot accept where we are at the moment.I want Scotland to win the world cup but it ain't going to happen. So get used to it.@Aindoh your post is ludicrous while they were great players the top teams of today would wipe the floor with them as they are much fitter and stronger and tactically more astute, and if you don't rate Messi Ronaldo Suarez, Bale, Robben then you defo don't know anthing about football.

{Ed007's Note - So why do we bother even entering European competition, why bother signing ANY player in case it doesn't work out? What if it does work out and we sell the player for £12m in 2 years time? If you live your live worrying about what if's you will end up a very lonely old man.
I take it you don't gamble, Ray? The odds of failure must terrify you! What if you lose a £5?}

Ed I all for signing these players and I want them just as much as you all I saying is its not going to happen. I just bein realisitic, and if an EPL club wants them then they going there wether we bid or not.You know and I know the board would be lambasted if we signed 1 of these players and lost a fortune.Its not an exact science its a very risky business as you know.

{Ed007's Note - You'll never know who will come until you try. Playing in the EPL isn't the be all and end all of football, TV and media just want you to think that.
Would players from Scandinavia, Bosnia, Holland, Belgium, Slovakia, the Czech Republic or even Africa not be interested in moving to CFC with the chance to win trophies, the chance to play in European competitions and more importantly the chance to earn more money? Do you think we would have signed Wanyama if Beerschot had wanted £1.5m - £2m for him?}

@rayman no read it right and you have contradicted yourself once again- if other teams are getting better, then result is we are getting worse.

Its not about doing what I want, its basic football management

How can you get worse if other teams getting better, it just means we not progressing and moving forward or just not in the same ball park financially.As I said the top teams are movin to another league at the moment due to finances.Usually the best players were spread all over the world, now they seem to be at the top 3.

{Ed007's Note - The 'big' teams get the best players because of one thing - money. Do you think Samuel Eto'o signed for Anzhi because he had always dreamed of playing in the Russian league or because they were paying him £350k a week? We don't need Dermot Desmond to finance any deals, the club is making ample £ to cover investment, the penny pinching from the board is holding us back, what quality of player could we have signed for the combined transfer fees and wages of Pukki, Balde and Bangura? Throw in Boerrigter, Griffiths and we could probably have afforded two signings (Finnbogason last summer and Besic this summer?) that would have vastly improved the team domestically and in Europe. For all John Park's good work in unearthing defenders and midfielders he can't spot a striker for love nor money. We've wasted millions on duds that he has recommended.
And before you start on about what if they flop, I'm sure that at £4 million each we would at least recoup our money from England where Shane Long has went for £12 million and Ross McCormack for £11m. How much did we write off on Bangura?}

Rayman if something is improving in standard, it is getting better yes? If a competitor is not improving there is now a bigger gap in quality, meaning the later has subsequently got worse due to not progressing.

@Dn of course the gap gets bigger but it doesn't mean we getting worse, everybody on here goes on about the Oneil, strachan teams but they didn't do any better that we doing the last 2/3 years in the CL.Ed you talk with hindsight we didn't buy those players because they were bad we bought them because we thought they might progress into good players it doesn't always work.

{Ed007's Note - If you don't want us to gamble with our money and don't want us to use hindsight to see where we went wrong, what do you actually want Ray? You keep picking faults with points but you aren't suggesting anything of your own to improve the team and the club's standing in Europe? I did ask if you thought we would have bought Wanyama if Beerschot had wanted £1.5m - £2m for him?}

@rayman mate for me that means a team is getting worse, as they are becoming less competitive in terms of the challenge they can offer these clubs.

With Champions League, the way scottish football is we should be aiming to get to group stages each season for revenue. i'm going to be honest, that's just what I see europe as for us- much needed extra revenue. that's not the reason why I go on about oneil and strachans reign as manager. its the success they achieved domestically at a time where league was more competitive.