Celtic Banter Archive November 22 2012

 

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22 Nov 2012 20:17:45
Can the 80 players,staff and management claim PPI on mis sold insurance on their loans.........DH

Believable6 Unbelievable2

As time goes on this will only get worse.
Mols has already spilled whats left of the beans. Its a massive lie, anybody can seeA company lends a car to its employee and he has to pay tax. A company gives an employee 6 million and he pays no tax. Thats a bit odd intit ?

Agree6 Disagree2

Seems every zombie NOW want investigations and inquiries, this will surely only strengthen the HMRC case in an appeal., especially in light of the Mols statement. Also, if BDO are serious about recouping monies for creditors, repayment of loans must be the easiest of all routes to pursue first. "they think it`s all over". They may just have entered a supermarket entirely stocked with cans of worms.

chasaboy

Agree2 Disagree2

22 Nov 2012 19:36:33
rfc delayed the tax case deliberately for 3 years
by witholding info docs etc.so that the police eventually had to go in to retrieve them through a raid before the tax case could commence,
the not guilty would have been given,2 years ago,there would have been no craig whyte,no admin,no liquidation,no bans,no lost history?,no years in the wilderness,no stigma, no sevco'............................
"COULD THIS BE CLASSED AS THE BIGGEST OWN GOAL IN THE HISTORY OF FOOTBALL?"
EVENING LADS
MARTY BHOY(TM)

Believable7 Unbelievable1

Two ways of looking at it as it could be classed as the biggest own goal in the history of tax collecting. To turn the amount of money offered down and to be left with nothing is a massive mistake by the tax authorities.I would have thought you would be more worried about the amount of taxpayers money wasted chasing this lost cause. Thats of course if you pay tax yourself. I now hope that rangers have been proved INNOCENT you attack some of the companies who dont pay tax with the same vigour. {Ed007's Note - You might want to look up the meaning of 'innocent' or is that ALL owed taxes, NIC and debt paid?}

Agree3 Disagree2

I meant innocent in the big tax case. I do know the meaning of the word innocent. Thats the big tax case that a lot of misguided people had rangers guilty. If thats the best you can do ed that fine.Whats next correcting my grammar? {Ed007's Note - There is still money owed regarding the BTC and what about all the other 'cases', are you admitting 'guilt' in them?
If you are worried about your grammar this isn't really the place to discuss it, there will be adult learning courses at your local colleges etc, there is no shame in attending them. Good luck.}

Agree3 Disagree0

Who said i was an adult? You just assumed that in the same way you assumed rangers were guilty. I am not admitting any guilt,as i am not a rangers fan.Thats just another of your wrong assumptions. {Ed007's Note - Where did I say you were a Rangers fan? You are assuming that I assumed you were one, and if you aren't an adult you should be in school, look at your writing, it wouldn't do you any harm.}

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@3 Naw your not a Ger. Do one you clown.
Tambhoy

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22 Nov 2012 18:40:18
Couple of points gents. Thought Lenny got his tactics all wrong on Tuesday night. I think he caved in to media pressure about being so defensive against Barca and wanted to prove thats not the way we play normally. Left ourselves wide open. Not helped by a well below par performance though. Also, having decided that Rangers EBTs were loans, surely to God the FTT appeals panel should have looked to see if any of them had been paid back. As is almost certainly the case, if none were then it should have been regarded as a method of tax evasion?!

AC75

Believable4 Unbelievable2

22 Nov 2012 16:29:37
the last word goes to david murray .... no point in celebrating RANGERS HAVE STILL BEEN DESTROYED ... end of

Believable10 Unbelievable4

Rangers have been destroyed.

And I think that's worth celebrating!

Agree3 Disagree3

22 Nov 2012 13:30:39
So former old Rangers directors talking about slaps on the wrist for fielding ineligible players wrongly registered in the SPL, rubbish. Titles gained through tax avoidance is shameful. Former Directors calling for tens of Millions in compensation, from taxpayers purse no less, for them running a tax avoidance scheme? Utterly ridiculous. As a tax payer I'm sick of these scunners. Go away and hang your heads in shame. I side with the member of the tribunal who maintains EBTs were illegal.
HMRC should appeal to the high court in London.

Believable10 Unbelievable4

Of course you side with him. You aren't exactly going to side with anything or anyone that is in favour of Rangers. Rangers have been found not guilty yet you are ademant that are in fact GUILTY.

BRILLIANT!!!!!

TTG

Agree3 Disagree10

TTG, Rangers have not been found not guilty. It was an appeal not a criminal trial.

Go and read the decision and you will find that the decision of the Tribunal was that Rangers did avoid the payment of income tax and NIC on some EBTs, but in the majority of occassions did not.

The Tribual found "Accordingly, the assessments made fall to be reduced substantisally (meaning Rangers are still due a tax liability). It was conceded (by Rangers) that advances in favour of certain players are taxable and liable to NIC and we have found that in certain other limited instances, there may be a similar liability. To that extend the assessments should stand (Rangers are liable for the tax). In these circumstances we expect that it is sufficient that we allow the Appeal in principle. Parties can no doubt settle the sums due for the limited number of cases mentioned without further reference to the Tribunal".

So the decision was not that Rangers had been found not guilty. The decison was to "allow the Appeal in principle", with the decision clearly recording that in a number of cases Rangers did evade paying tax and NIC.

And it is clear TTG that you have not bothered to read the decision of the Tribunal, when you state "Of course you side with him". The judge who held the minority view was not male, but female.

So Rangers have been found in a number of cases to have evaded tax and NIC in relation to the Big Tax Case. Furthermore there was circa £55m debt owed to creditors at the time of Rangers going into administration, including over £25m to HMRC, which was a completely seperate matter to the Big Tax Case.

So before you start proclaiming the innocence of the team you used to support, try and understand the facts.

K-Dot.

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22 Nov 2012 13:26:33
Excellent deflection tactic by Paul Murray and David Murray. David Murray, the knighted businessman who sold Rangers to Craig Whyte

Having read the report maybe they should explain then to the gullible & complacent fans why Murray's employee that is referred to as Mr Red in the report as to why he employed such delay tactics in co-operating with HMRC ?

All 3 members of the tribunal slammed his delay tactics. Mr Red was described as hostile and refused any meetings with HMRC. Indeed a warrant had to be issued for documents to be seized.

Mr Murray, a very astute businessman by all accounts had so little confidence in the face of the evidence he would not sell to the Blue Knights on the condition he accepts any tax liability.

At no time in the report have HMRC been criticised, the fact of the matter is the only person criticised is Mr Red. An employee of Murrays..

An apology is due but to the rangers fans from whoever employs this guy and instructed the delay tactics

Mrs E

Believable10 Unbelievable0

So David Murray's employee Mr Red held up the big tax case? Shouldn't the tabloids be finding these things out?
SDM and his Directors ruined old Rangers nobody else.
Thank goodness for honest Scots keeping an eye on all this.

Agree7 Disagree1

It is in the paper's today just not the tabloids.

They are more about sensationalism to provoke a reaction..well that's what I think anyway ~ Mrs E

Agree5 Disagree0

22 Nov 2012 12:18:07
here ed me n wee vera hud a bit ae a punch up last nite n a hid tae gie hur a slap tae calm ur doon !
bit efturwurds we hid the bestist sex fur ages!
ahl jist huv tae wait till she comes roon agane fur ma tea!
ur shood a jist dive bak in ? aye why no its fur the best eh?
whit n dont any ae you scruff tel me ye huvnae don it? naw no wae vera?
its like prema jak ed (iz you wid no)
great sex n a nice wee heid doon eftur ye canae whack it?

Believable2 Unbelievable2

22 Nov 2012 11:41:35
Rangers fans and ex directors delighted that two Scottish guys have decided Rangers ran a tax avoidance scheme for 12 years giving them incredulous advantage in all competitions.
Tax avoidance is shameful.
And not properly registered in each players case, which we are told is individually complex according to each sub trust with the SPL/ SFA.

Believable6 Unbelievable3

Correct. Declaring an offshore scheme on an annual balance sheet is not disclosing the financial arrangement of each individual players negotiated sub trust terms and conditions. Which is the level of detail and declaration required by SFA/ SPL to register the player.

Agree3 Disagree2

Such delight and merriment that running a tax avoidance scheme was indeed operated. Shameful. Where's the apologies to the tax payers?

Agree5 Disagree1

Just read mols statement and nowhere does he use the word loan. He says If any tax is due rangers should pay it because the sceme was their idea. So next month when you see on your the column for tax deducted think about mr mols and how he didnt have that column on his. How any ordinary taxpayer can go along with this defies belief. I hope for the sake of all taxpayers hmrc go on with this and every other company who pulled this stunt are brought to book. These people are standing in public saying this money was a loan. More fool those who are prepared to believe it.

Agree7 Disagree1

These are the men who managed the club into a position of needing CL group stage football to break even. Whyte was mad to buy such a club from them. Very high risk.
Ally's hopeless foray in Europe sunk the club.

Agree5 Disagree1

Whyte is not mad, very smart if you ask me! We willnever know how much he has profited from thier demise!

Agree0 Disagree0

22 Nov 2012 11:09:50
Well done rangers football club on winning the EBT case.

It's just a shame that your history is down the pan.

Good luck to THE rangers football club on being the most successful football team in the world to winning the irn bru division 3 league in your first year of business

Lenny

Believable9 Unbelievable2

They did not win the ebt case, they won the appeal, according to the finding's they were still guilty of not paying tax and insurance in some of the case's. The word's to read are IN PRINCIPAL,I think HMRC will go to the next level of appeal.
Tam

Agree2 Disagree2

22 Nov 2012 10:40:15
Every player that signed for Rangers negotiated with their agents the details of their trusts before signing up.
They knew in advance how much they were getting paid through the trusts.
This is evidence that it wasn't 'LOANS' in any shape or form but a negotiated payment for playing football.
Everybody knows this, old rangers knew it, new rangers knows it, the players and their agents knew it,.......
Trusts are set up by wealthy parents to gift money to their children tax free. Not football clubs to players ONLY during the term of their contracts.

Believable5 Unbelievable2

Possibly the biggest whopper I've read on this forum. As they "negiotiated" the loan beforehand means it isn't a loan....BELTER!!

I take it your still spewin' at the result of the FTTT?

TTG

Agree2 Disagree4

The only losers are old rangers, defunct, and the taxpayers who have to make up the shortfalls from these mostly foreign millionaire tax avoiders. If you want to glorify that, go ahead. Celtic are just fine, rangers are very very not fine.

Agree2 Disagree0

TTG Don't be a ****,your defunct team are still guilty of tax evasion if you read the report ? ( very much doubt if you have ), you still owe HMRC money,why don't you ask yourself the question, why did David Murry sell Rangers, if he thought they were going to win the BTC and don't tell me because the bank forced him to.
Tam

Agree1 Disagree0

That shut him up.

Agree0 Disagree0

22 Nov 2012 10:11:39
Michael Mols in the press today coming clean about his £260k EBT and how it was negotiated between his agent and RANGERS PEOPLE not Murray Group.
Explaining how he uunderstood how he played in Holland and paid tax but here they had this EBT set up as part of the contract.
If that's not admission he was playing football for an EBT what is? Not one mention of a 'LOAN'.

HMRC NEED TO APPEAL. Mols statements are evidence.

Believable5 Unbelievable4

Absolutely. This man is admitting tax avoidance and the knuckle dragging taxed to the hilt rangers fans are supporting him in this.
Loyal until the bill comes in.

Agree1 Disagree0

OP I think Mikey boy's done more damage than good to old Rangers, he is actually attempting to cover his own back in my opinion.
Tambhoy

Agree1 Disagree0

22 Nov 2012 08:54:59
i know this is'nt the boycott site but, i would gladly take part in any boycott that loses jabba his job. this airdrie fan has clearly shown over the last 9 months whose side he is on. stop buying the record/mail til he has gone , don't use his phone in on bbc til he has gone . to take his job away would be worth a boycott.. shamrock

Believable11 Unbelievable2

The good thing to come out of the BTC result is every commentator has declared it destroyed Rangers or ended them or sent them off in hearse to the graveyard. With Green starting a brand new club. No one now ridiculously stating its the same club.

Agree5 Disagree2

The knuckledraggers will still argue it's the same club mate. It's like trying to teach a garden gnome Pythagoras trying to educate that lot. The vacant look they have as zombies is nothing new, they have all had that look for years anyway.

They Died Chasing Lions.

Agree4 Disagree2

 
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