01 Mar 2013 21:44:26
lord nimmo is a legal brain and no one can question that, he had 2 decisions to make ( 1 ) did rangers break the rule his legal brain decided guilty the second did it give an advantage on the park to me that question does not require a legal brain it requires someone with a strong knowledge of football and the running of clubs that imo is where nimmo fell short anyone will remember celtic where after targets when rangers stepped in and signed the player under our noses we thought they offered more money but now we know they didn't they offered them ebt, s the same money only tax free if rangers had informed the spl and sfa of those agreements celtic would have known why the player choose to sign for rangers and either questioned the ebt, s or offered the same terms but by keeping it from the governing bodies they could continue to use this secret payment plan to steel players from under celtics noses for over a ten year period how can anyone say that's not an advantage on the park
Celtic Banter Archive March 01 2013
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01 Mar 2013 21:11:47
I was going to write I cannot believe McCoist's reaction to yesterday's guilty verdict but I actually can.
He's a disgrace of a man and along with Charles Green, one of the worst things to happen to Scottish Football.
I get they are at desperado stages and trying to build a Club but to play to the supporters of this Club with such lack of humility is ugly and disgraceful.
RFC have broke the rules but did not cheat, fined but are not guilty of anything and the best yet, liquidated but are the same Club!
See this apology you or your equally fly side kick (Charles Green), who has never had anything to do with RFC are looking for you absolute pair of wallopers, don't ask me or any other fan for it through newpapers. go round every Scottish football ground and ask for it face to face.
This 'adminstrative error' you speak of Ally has seen better clubs than RFC thrown out of tournaments!
Celtic Football Club 125 years of unbroken History, 43 Scottish League Championship Titles, 35 Scottish Cups, 14 Scottish League Cups.
In 1967 Celtic won the quintuple - The very first British and only ever Scottish Club to win the European Cup, Scottish League Championship, Scottish Cup, Scottish League Cup and Glasgow Cup.
All without an 'administrative error' or widespread tax avoidance!
I have never been prouder to be a Celtic Supporter ~ Mrs E
01 Mar 2013 20:39:16
Alright Ed what happens now? Is it finished or can this be taken to appeal and if so do you think it will be? And why haven't the spl made a statement yet? Sorry for the barrage of questions but I know you will be able to shed some light on it. Cheers
Briggs {Ed007's Note - The SPL can appeal the decision to CAS. There are supporters associations of various SPL clubs in contact about the best way to move things forward on that front.}
01 Mar 2013 19:32:19
It appears LNS Commission put key importance to Mr Sandy Bryson's evidence. But there are numerous things wrong with his evidence:
1. Did he provide written documentary evidence of SFA policy regarding once a player is registered. etc. Or was it just his verbal testimony? Is the proven policy an addendum to the LNS report?
2. Mr Sandy omitted to state that once players have been found to be wrongly registered, their clubs are punished as per SFA rules, 3-0. That there is numerous precedents to this.
3. That a players registration is deemed to be correct by the SFA until proven not to be and that is when the SFA punishment rules kick in.
Did the SPL QC cross examine him effectively?
What is the legal position of the SPL legal team to this report? Do they believe it challengeable?
The August, wise and learned commission, with integrity and above reproach may have been misled inadvertently by Mr Sandy.
I guess there's the SFA Appeal, CAS, UEFA and The Court of Session available to decide.
01 Mar 2013 18:47:05
Quote from the record "oldco rangers history heritage and honours were transferred to the newco. New rangers legally same club and recognised as such by the sfa and uefa "
What chance is there when journalists are printing this rubbish.
Welshbhoy
01 Mar 2013 18:44:22
Were player EBTs definitely found in HMRCs favour at FTTT? If so which ones and why?
Because if those players were deemed to be illegally employed then they should not have taken to the field and RFC definitely achieved sporting advantage using illegal guy breaking employment law regardless of registrations.
Indeed if eventually HMRC succeed with all EBTs all players were illegally employed by RFC and therefore, regardless of registrations, fielded illegally. Providing RFC with sporting advantage.
A player can be registered to play by SFA. But if he's in the country illegally or not paying NI or PAYE, he's commuting a crime and shouldn't be on the park
01 Mar 2013 18:55:26
I loved Lennon's reply "Celtic behaved impeccably, that is why we are where we are today"
Yes looking forward to a Scottish Cup Q/F and a return against Juventus in the Champions League.
Virtually debt free (the honest way) and money in the bank.
Big clubs clambering to sign a host of our players.
Celtic Football Club and it's fans have a great reputation all over the world. Every big name player wants to play at Celtic Park to sample our unique atmosphere.
We are a BIG club in every way, let the "little" club play away in the lower reaches of Scottish football with their even smaller minded fans.
Next season Celtic will again be in europe, while Rangers only have day trips to France to top up their carry outs to look forward to. hail hail Timalloy
01 Mar 2013 18:34:00
We are CELTIC and don't forget it. deebhoy
01 Mar 2013 17:27:11
Forget about not disclosing EBTs when registering players and EBT documentation.
IT'S THE OPERATION OF EBTs THAT GAVE RFC A HUGE ADVANTAGE OVER ALL OTHER SPL TEAMS. CELTIC STARTED ONE EBT, binned it, declared it to all governing bodies and paid the NI and PAYE outstanding.
RFC furtively and secretly continued to employ up to 60 over 11 years on EBTs allowing them to employ on average players 30% more expensive in the market.
This should not await the result of the UTTT to find Rangers outstanding EBTs illegal to sort now.
01 Mar 2013 17:18:08
Mrs E, regarding your earlier post about registering players and Mr Sandy of the SFAs testimony.
Why have regulation penalties (3-0) for wrongly registered players playing on the field, when according to Mr Sandy NOBODY IS WRONGLY REGISTERED ONCE THEY ARE REGISTERED THAT'S IT!
This is a ridiculous statement for the tribunal to accept.
Ok the players registrations had gone through BUT THEY WERE WRONGLY REGISTERED NEVERTHELESS. AND THERE IS A REGULATED PENALTY FOR PLAYING SUCH GUYS.
Nobody is saying they didn't get registered but they were wrongly registered and should not have played.
Also that's only SFA registration not SPL.
01 Mar 2013 16:53:27
Now that we all know the old Rangers were completely and utterly innocent of all wrong doing or rule breaking I have decided to make it up to them. I am currently sipping away on a Blackthorn to numb the pain from the cuts caused by the claws of my new Puma.
Evinguu
01 Mar 2013 16:42:51
Plenty of trolls prowling it seems folks judging by the disagree hits. Ah bless celebrating over cheating but rest assured there is a lot more mileage to come BDO to start with and undoubted newco cash flow probs lie ahead for our amusement. (by the way trolls hit disagree with impunity there's a good zombie0
Gally
01 Mar 2013 16:39:49
"we are playing Juventus in the last sixteen of the Champions League, not renting our training ground out to them" Neil Lennon. And there's that gap you are trying desperately to close Sevconians. Are you still welcoming the chase?. green jhedi
01 Mar 2013 14:27:38
another world record the first team to be found innocent and fined £250,000
01 Mar 2013 12:58:00
The Rangers and black thorn cider. What a combination. The Rangers sing no one likes us we don't care. Blackthorn cider on the other hand sing no one drinks us we don't care.
Blackthorn cider the inferior cider. the rangers the inferior football team a match made in heaven.
Ian
Almost forgot about the kit sponsor puma the inferior sportswear manufacturer. 3 brands together that are the inferior to there peers.
01 Mar 2013 12:39:39
Layman's terms :-
The independent commission set up by the Scottish Premier League to rule on whether Rangers had improperly registered their players by failing to disclose their full earnings on Thursday published its verdict and found the club guilty on all counts.
However, due to the Scottish Football Association's registration process, Lord Nimmo Smith and his fellow members of the tribune were unable to take sporting sanctions against the old club.
There had been anticipation in some quarters that championships won during the period in question would either be reallocated to runners-up Celtic or simply declared void but that was not an option available to the three wise men.
Rangers were ruled to be guilty on three charges of breaching the rules concerning non-disclosure of information relating to payments made to players and also of failing to co-operate with the SPL when requested to do so.
The evidence of Sandy Bryson, the SFA's Head of Registrations, held the key as to why stronger punitive action was not taken by the tribunal.
Under questioning, he explained that a player, once registered with the ruling body, remained registered with them until such time as his contract ended or that player left their club's employment.
Consequently, even though the complete details of his contract had been wilfully withheld or any other breach had occurred, that registration, once accepted, would stand.
As a result of that policy, it was not possible for Nimmo Smith and his learned friends to state that the players who had benefited from side letters detailing the amounts to be paid into Employee Benefit Trusts, should not have been fielded during the decade under dispute.
It therefore followed that the results of the matches played during that time were valid and that there could not be a case for stripping of titles. Hence the £250,000 fine on the oldco.
Mrs E
01 Mar 2013 11:11:52
For Davie weir to say he knows Celtic players who didn't want rangers to lose titles he needs to say who. Or else it must be regarded as lies until he does.
01 Mar 2013 10:50:51
I think all of us took our eye of the ball on this one. We allowed ourselves to be distracted by the LNS inquiry when the big scandal is Ogilvie.
Let's imagine for a moment that the president of the Food standards Agency was a former employee of Findus. Furthermore let's imagine that the president of the Food Standards Agency was found have been the beneficiary of a secret off shore trust administered by Findus, or by agents on their behalf.
Now let's imagine that Findus were involved in some scandal involving say horse meat in lasagne. Now imagine that Findus were the beneficiaries of a secret agreement between the Food Standard Agency and Findus and that Findus were given special help to overcome their difficulty that was denied to competitors of Findus.
Let's imagine that an independent inquiry into the behaviour of Findus was set up by the Food Standard Agency, and that the head of the Food Standards Agency, still a beneficiary of this secret off shore trust was "giving evidence and guidance, " to that "independent" inquiry.
Further let's imagine that as a result of that evidence the "independent" inquiry decided that Findus should not receive any punishment for its misdeeds, because the Food Standards Agency had not been aware of them when they misdeeds were occurring.
Let's just imagine that. Sounds far- fetched doesn't it.
01 Mar 2013 10:21:02
@Green jhedi and the five year Puma deal and no figures mentioned.
Apparently Green told a meeting at the Louden it was £250k a year.
Asked why "only £250k, he said it was all the club could afford" lol Timalloy
01 Mar 2013 10:20:42
Jabba, Chico and Sally fully expected the GUILTY verdict which they got, but they didn't expect the ridiculous zero penalty. That's why they had the puma deal held to release yesterday to placate the zombie hoards with good news on bad news.
It's so wrong not even those at Ibroke expected it.
01 Mar 2013 10:02:25
THE SPL BOARD HAVE NOT FORMALLY ACCEPTED LNS REPORT AND RECOMMENDATIONS.
This report was always a private matter for the SPL and should not have been released publicly.
"The SPL Board notes that the Commission has upheld a number of complaints against Rangers OldCo and that Rangers OldCo has been found to have breached SPL and Scottish FA Rules over an 11-year period in relation to the non-disclosure of financial arrangements involving many of its Players.
"The SPL Board are assured by the integrity of the process followed and thank The Rt Hon Lord Nimmo Smith and his colleagues, Nicholas Stewart QC and Charles Flint QC, for their time and effort.
"The Board wishes to give the detail of the decision further consideration at its next meeting. "
SPL chairmen and Boards are reported to be astonished at LNS position and I think they will take further action to uphold the integrity of the SPL competition over 11 years.
For LNS to state there was no sporting advantage contrasts with all evidences.
For LNS to state the players were elligible to play contrasts with his finding that non disclosure of their EBTs broke the regulations and hence they were wrongly registered. There's only one prescribed punishment for that, 3-0 in every game.
A huge miscarriage of justice is being rolled out and it needs to be put right by SPL Chairmen/ SPL Board to save the game. We will all walk away.
The court of session is established as the last word in Scottish football. Nobody should consider just leaving this most serious matter alone now.
01 Mar 2013 09:28:18
Folks
Don't waste your time writing about New Govan FC.
YES, it seems like justice wasn't done.
YES, it sounds like an endorsement for corrupt behaviour.
YES, the shame will stay with them.
But so what? What's the point in any of us getting annoyed? What can we do about it? Stop groaning and complaining guys.
Remember, we've had a great season so far, we reached the last 16 of the Champions League, we're going to be SPL Champions again and they're stuck in Div3. What more do you want?
And spare me the nonsense about sporting integrity and the rights and wrongs of it all because we all know there is NO sporting integrity in Scottish football and the institution will always side with it's favourites and that's the way it is. As Bill Gates said, "Life isn't fair. Get used to it. "
So please get on with your day, put a smile on your faces and be thankful it isn't us who have to hang our heads in shame.
Hail Hail
ChrisBhoy
01 Mar 2013 08:49:32
The talking of moving to england is gettinf boring. NO CLUB IN ENGLAND WILL VOTE CELTIC INTO ENGLAND. Why would they? Where is the benefit to them? Their is already an abudance of money in england. So celtic bring a large away crowd, you only play away once against a team, so that isn't a big attraction.
01 Mar 2013 08:24:53
For the depth in squad we have and the amount of money we have invested in our team compared to the rest of the spl is it too much to ask that we should have gone this season unbeaten in domestic football? For us to lose 5 games in this league is shocking for the squad and ability we have
01 Mar 2013 08:51:28
From LNS report.
On 14 June 2012 a newly incorporated company, Rangers Scotland Limited, purchased
substantially all the business and assets of Oldco, including Rangers FC, by entering into an asset
sale and purchase agreement with the joint administrators. The name of Rangers Scotland Limited
was subsequently changed to The Rangers Football Club Limited. We shall refer to this
company as Newco.
So if I understand this correctly Newco bought the assets of Rangers which would be the stadium murray park and the players does that mean that rangers never died.
Players deemed to move on under TUPE so that is 1 asset they never bought.
No one has seen the deeds to Ibrox or Murray park so if they bought the assets surely they would have been given the deeds to Ibrox and Murray park. So have they bought them?
Can you buy history under assets?
Reading between the lines CG has never seen the deeds he lost out on TUPE so what did he buy.
It looks to me all he has bought is the name and badge.
No assets no players no history.
Ian
01 Mar 2013 08:01:28
Can I just point out that a football club cannot be liquidated. Only the company tht owns the club can be liquidated. Therefore, this new club argument is pointless at best. And according to the powers tht be in UEFA and FIFA, Rangers are still Rangers. All that's different is the league they play in.
01 Mar 2013 00:00:31
I've always been of the opinion that I would not like Celtic leave the Scottish game, but after today's latest fiasco with the authorities it shows that the game is corrupt to the core.
If there is any avenue Celtic could go down with regards to England or an Atlantic League etc they should grasp it with both hands. The game up here is becoming a mini Italy. Mind you one big difference is at least the Italian governing body has the balls to strip titles from it's big clubs (Juve).
01 Mar 2013 00:18:26
never mind the title stripping but reading nimo, s findings one question needs to be asked. why did rangers get off with that tax case? nimo even states anyone with half a brain would clearly see these payments where contractual. it even says on side notes if the trust was not available the club would find another way of paying them the money am not too bothered about titles and tax its the corruption that gets me and no one can move on while newco can still carry on like this