Celtic Banter Archive May 18 2014

18 May 2014 10:14:52
it seems tommy burns time as manager has taken on some sort of false myth of total football the celtic way etc etc, yes there was some great football played and sadly since his tragically early death it seems to get accepted as this was the norm, stas for his tenure. 94/95 won 11 drew 18 lost 7,, 95/96 won 24 drew 11 lost 1, 96/97 won 23 drew 6 lost 7, 1 trophy in 6 won, having been there and watched his teams I can assure people who weren't there it wasn't total football every week, when it was good it was really good but on the whole it was disappointing with as many aerage games then good . even if you take the sevco out of the stats we lost cup games to hearts, Falkirk, and raith and went out of Europe before December on his two attempts, he also had a decent budget with an approx. 16 million spent in 3 seasons, this isn't an attack on tb, it just annoying tommys reign gets used as some sort of weapon to attack lennon by when it had as many faults,

Yes, while I agree Tommy is a much missed Celt. I think are memories of Tommy achievements are greatly over rated, . First and foremost we must be winning, especially our League to dine at the top table . The more polished and style and good football the better. Winning comes first .

{Ed007's Note - But once you start winning you need to start aiming to entertain, you need to start aiming to be even better, winning is only the first piece of the jigsaw. The crowds at CP prove that the fans aren't being entertained, there are thousands of paid for STs sitting idle simply because people can't be bothered turning up to watch the team.
CFC fans were quick enough to pounce on Walter Smith's anti-football tactics, and to wet their knickers over Barcelona's tiki-taka. Look at neutral people's reaction to Mourinho's parking the bus against Liverpool's open expansive passing game, people want to see good football. If CFC don't have the players to play an attacking, attractive game there is something far wrong.
Our players should be fitter and have enough technical ability to crush any team on the domestic scene but they aren't. A free scoring, attacking and cavalier approach to how the game should be played has been the ethos at CFC for over 100 years. We should be using the SPFL to fine tune our playing style and tactics for Europe and that's not happening.
Why do you think players like Messi, Ronaldo and Bale are valued so highly compared to say defenders in general, they are the difference between a good team and a great team. It's not just about winning to big clubs like Barca, Real Madrid, Man Utd, Liverpool, Bayern and Arsenal etc it's about winning whilst playing a certain way, it's engrained in the club's DNA and CFC used to be the exact same. It's the reason Real Madrid got rid of Mourinho, fans and players didn't like the style Mourinho wanted to play and that was it for him at the Bernabeu. Jock Stein once said

"I think it is important to win a match, but I think what is even more important is the manner in which you win."

It's a pity Neil Lennon doesn't think the same way, or doesn't have the know-how to implement an entertaining style, I suppose personal ego-trips about unbeaten runs, points totals or goals scored get in the way of trying to improve the team.}

Wholeheartedly agree with you ed, though I think it is very difficult for us to take the style we would use into Europe. Its ok for the top European teams to do this as they have the best players in the world and they wudnt need to change as they will dominate most games, but while we would dominate games on SPFL the CL is entirely different in that we would be dominated in most games at this level so we would need to adjust our game.As you said even Morinho has to adjust Madrid to take on Barca.

{Ed007's Note - I don't agree Ray, especially at home. All we should need to do is tweak the tactics, not many teams in the CL totally overhaul their tactics except us, most just need some fine-tuning, that's the difference a good manager makes. All you would need to change is the urgency of attacking and play a more patient game than we would domestically, why do we always approach CL matches with a defeatist attitude and wondering how we can stop the opposition?
The richest teams don't always win, look at Atletico this season, their success can be firmly placed at the feet of the manager, that's why he is a target for a few European big hitters this summer.
Olympiacos done well this season and went out to a very poor Man Utd team, either of those teams would have beat us this season. Basel consistently hold their own in the CL and we are head and shoulders above them in terms of finance, club size etc. Look at our own run to Seville, we didn't have the most expensive players but we had a good solid system that MON played domestically and in Europe, he just tweaked things according to the opponents.
The Borussia Dortmund team that beat Real Madrid in last years CL semi-final cost 40.6 million Euros, 263.3 million Euros less than Madrid's team. That is all down to one man, manager Jurgen Klopp, it's only 11 years ago they needed a loan from Bayern Munich to pay their players who had taken a 20% pay cut, they then flirted with relegation for a few season until Klopp took over in 2008 and started to rebuild the club.
As long as the club and fans accept the small club mentality we will never progress, even Bertie Auld said it's time we got back to acting like a big club at the Celtic Way opening the other week.}

I have not posted in a long time. But the way I see it is that we really need to sign a player that can get the fans rising from their seats as we have not had one since Henke. All that is required is for the board and PL to dig deep and find one because until that time we will have a 45,000 audience. However when we find another TB, Jinky, Henke or Lubo we will have 60,000 happy Celts. Then we will have a happy board willing to spend cash for other departments of the team that will only strengten our bid in Europe.

{Ed007's Note - Welcome back Kendo, I totally agree with you here but remember we did buy Leigh Griffiths.}

Tommy Burns won us our 1st trophy in 9 years at a time when that mob were dominating scottish football. Cut the guy a bit of slack eh?

{Ed007's Note - And let's not forget his first season we were playing at Hampden, anyone who was unfortunate enough to go and watch that knows how dire it was trying to support a team playing there, it's still the exact same. Plus Rangers were shopping in the Laudrup/Gascoigne/Albertz market while we were paying for building a new stadium under the prudent Fergus McCann AND trying to build a team to compete. When you look at some of his signings, Tosh McKinlay, Pierre Van Hooijdonk. Andreas Thom, Jackie McNamara, Jorge Cadete, Alan Stubbs, Paolo Di Canio, Enrico Annoni and Tommy Johnson you wonder what kind of team he could have produced if we didn't need a stadium.
If it hadn't been for the work Fergus McCann and TB done to rebuild the whole club I seriously doubt if we would have stopped 10 in a row.}

Dn30 why?

Deep river bhoy the key part of what I said was "1st trophy in 9 years". We were in a terrible state back then and in process of rebuilding. It was a major task for whoever was appointed.

You can't justify comparing Burns reign to Lennons. Two totally different scenarios and it just doesn't make sense

@ed exactly mate. It was a horrible time celtic had just been through with the kellys. Major overhaul of club was underway and Burns winning scottish cup was a much needed lift for club and supporters. Its 2 different scenarios with Burns and Lennon.

{Ed007's Note - I think people who are belittling TB's achievements are forgetting exactly where the club was before him and Fergus came in.}

It can be very difficult and frustrating when trying to play attractive expansive game when the opposition shuts up shop with their back four parked twenty yards from goal and a five man wall just in front of them . Teams can kill games by their approach and tactics .

{Ed007's Note - Other teams seem to manage it and teams don't seem to have too many problems doing it against us in the CL.}

Dn30 that was my point you can't compare but people keep saying lennon should be playing football the way it was under tb . I don't know how old you are but I watched his teams and the first season was dismal yes it got better but it wasnt so called total football everyweek

Ed. I was there before during and after tommys reign and seen what the club came through rather than belittling tbs reign i'm just pointing out it wasnt as brilliant a football time as some people care to remember . tbs teams were always top heavy with attackers which isn't a bad thing but it needed bslanced out with a steady defence and good goalie which I think was never properly addressed . I also believe that had fegus gave tb the fourth season and the 11 million approx transfer budget hegave to wim tb would have won the league as oldco where starting to crumble at thst point . I don't think the work tb done on the park led to stopping 10 but the work tb done behind the scenes has stood us in good stead

I am not so sure Ed and I never see opposition team play attractive football against us . I know Chelsea can take the beautiful attractive game to a new low when they park their buses . Some teams can overcome the deep defenders, usually by scoring earning and getting the defensive team to open up a little but it isn't always easy .

Deep river bhoy, I was there too mate. The difference back then was the process of restructuring and becoming a force to give that mob a challenge in all competitions.