Celtic Banter Archive September 14 2014

 

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14 Sep 2014 16:13:04
ED

when are you putting up a poll for

yes
no
undecided

are you allowed?

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{Ed007's Note - We've had one going for a couple of weeks bud, just click here to cast your vote.}

I cannot remember ever seeing that poll and yet I cannot vote which strikes me as odd

its a conspiracy

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{Ed007's Note - It's been up since August sometime, try c'n'p this link:

www.celticrumours.co.uk/poll186.html

15 Sep 2014 00:25:29
I hope the poles accurate eh ed . landslide YES

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{Ed007's Note - I wish lol}

Cha67…tight as a ducks likely …

2 predictions

if YES win it will be ultra tight (51/49)
If NO wins it will be by a pretty big margin (55/45)

just my opinion

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{Ed007's Note - I'd agree with that.}

And we have a 1st…ED agreeing with me on a public forum…i can retire now :)

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Can I from the North of Ireland advise all Yes voters .
Vote early and Vote often

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14 Sep 2014 18:19:32
Anyone hear anything about the Tonev racism claim? Hardly the way to debut in the hoops. If the buoy's got no more sense than that he can't expect to be hanging around very long.

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Not sure how the proceedings work to be honest. It could just be one persons word against another. A good word from the manager and his team mates I think. Not something you want to hear anybody being guilty of. He's played against black people before and as far as I know has no record of racist slurs however if it has been reported then one can only assume he has done a naughty.

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Jim it's going a bit far to say if he has been reported that he has done a naughty . I would think a wee bit more evidence should be required . He may have but we certainly don't know .

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14 Sep 2014 13:31:07
First of all I would like to offer my apologies Ed to you and to all Scots. I was on here a few days ago saying that this is not the place for politics. I apologise profusely for that and the rant I am about to set off on. You were correct in your answer, use any platform available to you to get your message across. This is the biggest decision you will ever make so do the right thing.

I have watched nearly every news report and read almost every article on the referendum. Over the last few days I have become increasingly angry and I am Irish. I have just had the misfortune to come across an article on social media from The Guardian (that champion of free thinking liberalism) penned in support of a "knees up" parade yesterday by the other bastion of equality and liberalism - the Orange Order. Spare me the bull***t!

I have noticed that their recent articles have been poor to say the least, but this one is just plain ignorant. You can't dress a tart up in ladies clothing, slap some make-up on her and pimp her out as some good old fashioned "roll out the barrel" music hall act. Make no bones about it, this is fundamental bigoted anti-Irish, anti-Catholic, racist, homophobic and protestant exclusive establishment that they have chosen to align themselves to.

I saw an interview on C4 News yesterday when a reporter asked one of these knuckle dragging troglodytes what his flag with the words "NO POPERY" emblazoned across it had to do with the Union? His answer was, " Awwww, uhhhh. don't know?" In a split second this summed up the No campaign to me. Institutionalised sheep who will follow the band leader over the edge of a cliff.

If the OO is the the best you can do for a homecoming parade then you may as well hammer up the closing down signs on the front door right away. The best campaign for "YES" has been the dirty tricks and basic underestimation from Westminster. No depths have been low enough for them to plummet and scrape. They have stopped at nothing with their "please don't leave. I'M PREGNANT" campaign.

Every Scot has been given the right to self determination, it is a once in a lifetime opportunity, so take it and run. Every Country should be governed by it's own citizens, not a foreign landlord who does nothing but tax them based on London prices. Every Irishman is watching with a keen eye and praying that you win back your Country. The Empire is a busted flush so don't let them peddle it any other way.

Australia took the leap and have never looked back and I am positive you will have no regrets. Good luck and I sincerely hope that come Thursday a new wave has swept across your Country.

"Let me tell you that I love you, and I think about you all the time. Caledonia you are calling me, and now I'm going home".

Saoirse do na hAlban

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{Ed007's Note - No need to apologise, everybody is talking about so it's only fair posters can talk about it on here. There's only one side that has played the religion card and all it done was highlight the centuries old AND current social problems in Scotland. There were peaceful marches and gatherings all over Scotland to help the YES campaign, the most public show of support for the NO campaign was an OO march, I've said it before but if you are basing your vote on your religion or football team you shouldn't be allowed to vote - you're too stupid. Is this video the type of intolerance we want to promote, what did the rest of the world think about yesterday? If it had been a 'NO BLACKS' or 'NO JUDAISM' or 'NO ISLAM' banner there would be a mass outrage from all over the world, why is it acceptable to openly show hatred for Catholicism? Is this an acceptable face of a political movement?
I remember my granny saying 'If you fly with the craws you get shot with the craws'.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAoBM8ogmCw

Abighandofrjeremybeadle

NO have not endorsed the views or the arrangements of the OO….to say that this is the best the NO campaign can come up with re "rallying the populous" is plain ridiculous…

the OO are not representative of a modern day scotland within or out with the Union …

can we at least agree on that …

the O O yesterday did YES a favour, we can also agree on that ….

Ideally the OO would find another way to "celebrate" more modestly and less offensively …we can agree on that too

but what they are celebrating (I think) is a form of freedom from religious oppression and skullduggery…they are no better but for whatever reason they think they rid the UK of an evil ….and they won the battle so they get to write the history (and keep it going)

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14 Sep 2014 16:06:43
Come next Monday ed, are you saying the Stock Market will be unaffected?
Is the stock market not used for neo-political purposes?
Will State Chinese, Russian, Arabic investors look at it as a chance to 1. make money out of Scotland / rUK and 2. further their own state interests?
All the economic stuff should have been discussed and agreed upon before any vote surely?

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It was impossible to talk and agree anything with the no camp. Their completely wrong view is that a yes will bring an economic disaster .

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Am glad someone brought up the Orange Order!

How where they allowed to walk yesterday? AM SERIOUS they need to seek police guidance / approval / chaperon

Why were people not informed of them / this happening!?

10,000 of them really? So why did the NO campaign say NO! thanks surely to align yourself to such only alienates the other side or even aggravates? To the Celtic supporters (in colours) who were maybe coming / going from the East Coast surely they were planced in danger with no "HEADS UP" A could not believe what a was witnessing with them a cannot believe no one else has highlighted this to be honest with you! ATVB

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Am glad someone brought up the Orange Order!

How where they allowed to walk yesterday? AM SERIOUS they need to seek police guidance / approval / chaperon

Why were people not informed of them / this happening!?

10,000 of them really? So why did the NO campaign say NO! thanks surely to align yourself to such only alienates the other side or even aggravates? To the Celtic supporters (in colours) who were maybe coming / going from the East Coast surely they were planced in danger with no "HEADS UP" A could not believe what a was witnessing with them a cannot believe no one else has highlighted this to be honest with you! ATVB

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14 Sep 2014 20:12:17
@1 Of course the No Campaign have not pubically endorsed the OO march, nobody in their right mind would be that stupid. They also haven't came out to criticise the actions and chants of the EDL hangers on or the secterian songs of the loyalist sympathisers.

Look I am not trying to focus on one point i.e. religion, it would be wrong to do so for the many reasons covered so comprehensively by other posters. My point is that The Guardian, in support of the 'Better Together' camp have packaged the OO march as some sort of union flag covered celebration of all that is best about Britan. They are clearly grasping at straws. I suggest you go on their page and read the article. It is disgusting.

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14 Sep 2014 21:52:50
I can see clearly now the rain has gone

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Who gave the orange order permission to march? Westminster no, holyrood yes

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{Ed007's Note - No, it was Edinburgh City Council and the bill was picked up by the taxpayers i.e you.}

Jamiebhoy

that march was planned months ago.

It was in the press weeks ago

NO were clear weeks ago that they wanted no connection with it

Jim Murphy was in all the papers saying as much weeks ago

they still marched

but don't highlight their march as a justification that all of NO was in on it, they were not

we will be arguing that black is white next and that green is blue

the OO were always marching, they are pro union

I am undecided (more no than yes to be honest), but no linkage with EDL or BNP or OO or KKK or Opus Dei for that matter or the knights of st columba

just a celtic supporting family man with a company and employees and a profit and loss account and a car and a credit card and a mortgage, carrying 10lbs too much with a gym membership gathering dust and an optimistic view of the future in a yes, no scenario

I don't know what that makes me

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{Ed007's Note - Can all your workers afford a car, credit car and mortgage?

Hi ED

i don't know how to answer that…If I said yes IE they all have a car and a mortgage and a credit card does that make them (a) complicit in others hopelessness (b) guilty of neglect ( c) material bar stewards…

Give me a clue what that makes them/us before I answer ….please

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{Ed007's Note - Answered like a true politician. It's a test of your Toryism? ;)

Paradise a never knew that, A like Jim Murphy btw only 1 of the few who is not a "spent force" politician in the No campaign was very surprised the other night when he was lately replaced by George Galloway

Me to a celtic supporting fan with employees, and ditto the rest but no gym bunny! lol

As a said a started a NO only to end up a YES but never had you down Ed as a NO been reading that Lee Rigby stuff and you tubing it for last few hoors captivating stuff

I have a genuine FEAR paradise that as the rest of the UK now looks for there slice of Independence/demographic preference call it what you like that we plump for a NO only to be the Last 1 standing with nothing left in 35 years having said that a don't think the welsh have much to rely on and they want it too now!

Lets hope for once we are "ahead of the curve" ATVB JB7

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15 Sep 2014 07:58:29
Paradise since your moving over to the right side :) I guess I would be happy to assist with your weight loss. I am not taking the p***. I have been researching the food industry for a couple of years and I personally have lost 15kg without dieting! I also have a huge wealth of knowledge regarding health issues and nourishment. Anyway just a thought. If you are of a mind maybe Ed can help with getting our private emails exchanged. Group hug over.

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Sopotcelt….like watching INDY food programmes too. watched FED UP the other night…intriguing stuff….

Hug a hoodie …. this moving over to the other side feels right ;)

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15 Sep 2014 18:46:54
In take iodine every day I am careful not take too much. It speeds up the metabolism ( to normal levels) and protects all gladular tissue. i'm not talking baws but it does protect them. It also stops fluoride and nasty isotopes getting into my body.
I Cut out ALL sugar.I Cut ALL Gluten.
Common myth salt is bad. Truth. Salt is good but I go for Himalayan or sea salt. Those have over 80 minerals which are good for you. My BP dropped when I started using salt!
If anyone reading is a veggie apologies. I tried it for 9 months on ethical grounds but has joint pain and other issues due to protein deficiency.
I eat steaks 5 a week. I Grill don't fry. I don't use ANY vegetable oils including the hallowed OO;thats olive oil and its not orange.
I eat at least 5 eggs a day. Soft boiled or poached. It maintains the collagen. Essential for your brain and skin and cartiledge.
Use butter if you need to fry. I
also eat butter. As much as I want and salted too. I avoid all margarines like the plague.
I eat 5 times a day. A bit like a Hobbit really.
First breakfast. Porridge gluten free with raisins and banana.
Second breakfast. 3 soft boiled eggs and rice cake
Lunch. 200gram steak. I prefer sirloin or rump.
Dinner. Some veggie conconction the missus knocks up.
Supper. Light salad.
I don't drink or smoke as a rule but have the odd beer on holiday.
Weekends the same but no steak and may have chicken. Free range or organic.
I take milti vits and supplements. Essential as the soil is depleted and most (like 90% cannot supply the over 100 minerals and vitamins we need) I also only eat organic if possible its not always possible.
Some may think wow that's expensive but think about it.
No snacks chocolate crisps or any processed shoit. No booze no cigarettes. I don't snack. Snacks cost a fortune. So it means eating well is possibly close to or the same expenditure for a smoker who enjoys a drink and is silly enough to gamble on the horses. Oh I don't gamble and I am sure it helps my digestion.
There we are folks. Just my experience but I am the same weight now that I was 20 years ago and am fit as a fiddle. Long may it continue. God willing.

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15 Sep 2014 19:37:43
I forgot to say. No carbonated drinks. They ruin your digestive system and prevent you from extracting whatever goodness is in the food. I eat eggs with my steak and drink plenty water and T without milk and sugar. I live on the Holy Isle and shave my head. No the last bit is me joking. I think. :)

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@sopotcelt.
I eat a bag of sugar a week, no salt on anything, ever! Lots of pepper. Take cod liver oil and garlic when I'm not too hungover to forget. Bananas and tomatoes. Enough chocolate in a week to make your eyes bleed. A handful of walnuts a day for cholesterol. Lots of tea, milk and 2 sugars. 1 coffee a day, several beers, usually some red wine, whiskey or vodka depending on mood. A glass of water before bed. Smoke too much! More hair on my head than the average girl. Nice balance of red meat, fish and good chicken. Antibiotics included probably, still the same weight I was 20 years ago, work my ass off and fit as a fiddle. Maybe joking about the last bit.

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16 Sep 2014 07:27:11
Sugar is a poison. It destroys your liver and if you are serious. Lookout diabetes coming like a train through a tunnel. Remember the stages of disease. Diabetes, heart disease, cancer. Not always but often.
Salt is required for proper cell function. Salt. The good stuff has pottasium and sodium. Wthout one or the other your cells cannot metabolise and won't efficiently absorb and expend energy in the way they are designed to.
Pepper can give you heartburn.
Bananas good but not too many. Tomatoes have their drawbacks but fair enough. They are in chinese medicine cold and acidic. You want to generally maintain your body as alkali. Cancers cannot grow in a slightly alkali environment. that's a fact not psuedo science. Btw sugar. Guess what. Acidic.
Milk well most adults are lactose intolerant they just don't know it. Just like Gluten. Most people are intolerant to some degree. Some worse than others.
Coffee as far as I know is fine. Just keep it below 4 or 5 cups. that's cups not mugs.
Walnuts. Great stuff very good for you
Alcohol. Incidious and creeping poison.Nobody can function properly if acohol is part of their lifestyle.
Smoking. Disaster halth wise but in my opinion overall better than drinking. Tats how strongly I feel about the dangers of alcohol! But its my opinion only.
Red meat, does that include pork? Avoid pork products of every kind.
Antibiotics are avoided by eating organically.
Check out colloidal silver. Natural antibiotic it has side effects but is worth considering. Needless to say I use it.
Did you know the real potential for life span could be thirty forty or more than the nonsense 70 years we all are told. I am not joking about the last bit.

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16 Sep 2014 08:07:32
Oops forgot about the CLO. Essential fatty acids are just that ESSENTIAL. Omega 3 and 6 definitely in CLO. Omega 9 is also one you need (oleic acid) a bit od a debate going on over this one but I say it should be in. So you need omega 3 (ALA) and omega 6 linoleic acid and 9. Still you are doing well taking the CLO. Wthout these your brain is deprived of essential nutrients to function properly. You can generally only get them from fish or fish supplements. Also from flaxseed and borage seeds.

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16 Sep 2014 08:50:33
Garlic also filled with awesomeness. It should be eaten everyday. Right now I have to get on with MY work.

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Thanks spoor let, I'll take that on board. Omega 3.6.9 I take. Beet root juice (yuk)in the morning. Cheers

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14 Sep 2014 13:34:52
If nothing else brings home the difference between Champions League and the Europa League then surely Celtic's ticket package will drive it home what we are missing.
For our Europa games a 3 game package costs £60 for season ticket holders and £66 for non ST holders.
If we were in Champions League the same 3 games would be a minimum £90.
In Europa games I would imagine only about 30,000 tickets sold as teams not household names.
In CL we could probably expect about 50,000 sold, my poor maths says that Celtic will lose about £3m just in ticket sales alone. Then add on say £15m for group stages in CL (about £4m in Europa) makes another £11m loss. Television revenue should be down also as well as bonuses for every point won.
Celtic will probably lose out on circa £17m+ because of our failure in CL qualifiers.
We MUST do better next season.

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{Ed007's Note - For once I think the board have done well regarding tge EL ticket pricing.}

14 Sep 2014 11:16:55
Hi Guys, I was asked this question by my 13 year old son.

Dad, If I sell a player to a club with a `sell on fee `. What would happen if then bought the same player back from the club I sold him too. Would I then get him for the asking price less the sell on fee part?

Thanks
HH

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Yes, there was talk of that happening if Fraser Forster was transfered to Newcastle

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14 Sep 2014 01:32:58
ED

Can you tell me of any one thing that has been specifically driven or implemented by "Westminster" in the LAST 20 years that has unilaterally and exclusively been directed towards Scotland whereby the implementation has disadvantaged Scotland (and by default advantaged NO, Wales and England); just one thing or a "list" if you have it.

I am unashamedly "undecided" and have read your piece that predicts Scotland being ultimately destroyed and rendered totally obsolete (emotive language I'll give you that), but in the interests of probity, can you kindly answer the question in para 1.

I am read up on all of the "campaigns" and I have read all available literature and still remain undecided; my "yes" vote will not be driven by (a) economy (2) prospects (3) social justice because I don't think ANY person can confidently predict (in the short term) a certain outcome on currency, deficit, surpluses, tax revenues, services, jobs, inward investment, balance of payments, exports, competitiveness etc etc etc; it is all guesswork notwithstanding a "united" Scotland (not Britian!) if it rallies, awakes, applies itself, invests PROBABLY WILL be successful but we don't know.

But back to para 1, you are a clear NO voter and you have used very emotive language to explain why, but I would like to know how the Union has conspired unilaterally against Scotland to Scotland's detriment.

Oddly, I think the UK (like the US) is messed up generally where the rich get richer and the working class get compromised with the resultant distribution of wealth inequality "gap" forever widening; I do not think "Scotland" is alone in seeing the consequences (and being disillusioned as a result) of a one-way-traffc rich get richer "policy".

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{Ed007's Note - Even though not 1 inch of track will touch Scottish soil Scottish tax payers taxpayers will contribute £4.2bn to the HS2 project - taxpayers will also subsidise the crossrail project to the tune of £4.2bn..... There's one.

Imagine Scotland was already independent and we were about to have a referendum on whether to join a union with the rest of the UK.
Could the Pro-union side convince us that getting together would be better when we were told what would happen to Scotland after such a union? Some bullet points from the campaign…
-Your main Parliament will move 600 miles away, and your MPs will be in a tiny minority & will therefore have limited ability to effect policy on your behalf
-Scotland will get a government it didn't vote for.
-All of your oil and gas revenues will be handed over to the treasury in London.
-Even though not 1 inch of track will touch Scottish soil your taxpayers will contribute £4.2bn to the HS2 project.
-Your taxpayers will also subsidise the crossrail project to the tune of £4.2bn
-The biggest nuclear weapons facility in Western Europe will be built on the river Clyde, just 30 miles from your largest city.
-Even though you only have 8.2% of the UK’s population you will contribute 9.9% of the UK’s total tax take yet will only receive 9.3% of that tax take back to spend in Scotland (you will lose £4.4bn per year to the UK treasury)
-You will devolve all of the economic levers you have used to shape your economy directly to London and will now only have control of 7% of your economy
-Even though 79% of your MP's voted against it we will privatise your publicly owned mail service
-Even though 91% of your MPs voted against the bedroom tax in your parliament, we will impose it.
-Even though 82% of your MP's believed that a VAT increase would be detrimental to your economy, we will impose a VAT increase.
-You will join a country whose health and education services are rapidly being privatised.
-Now and again you’ll get dragged into an illegal foreign war.
-An austerity budget will be imposed from London cutting jobs and threatening vital public services even though 81% of your MP's voted against the cuts.
-The financial regulation system will be so weak and so lax that your whole economy will be brought to the brink of collapse.
-The most weak and vulnerable in society, instead of getting the protection and support they deserve will be interrogated and humiliated in an effort to get them off the meagre levels of support to which they are entitled.
Who in Scotland would vote for such a package?
Who would vote for that union?
So why would anyone vote to remain in such a union now?
This is about democratic ownership, social responsibility and the fact that Scotland on its own will be economically stronger from day one of independence.....

Why are the English so keen to keep Scotland under their rule? To supply even more young men to die fighting in illegal wars, to keep North Sea oil under English control? Over the years English governments (Governments we never voted for) have decimated our mining industry, our steel industry, our ship-building industry. They have battered and kicked us down for 300 years and now they are in a panic because we are kicking back. Britain didn't invade Iraq in my name, Britain isn't supporting Israel in my name, Britain didn't make the streets of Ireland a war-zone in my name, British governments haven't covered for and protected paedophiles in power (the BBC, Government ministers and members of the Royal family) in my name. What kind of government pulls the wool over it's own people's eyes and manipulates people by orchestrating incidents like the Lee Rigby 'murder' to stoke up racial tension, all to get people on side for their next illegal war.
I could go on and on, but just to finish up, Scotland don't want to be a superpower, we have no interest in warmongering, we have no interest in ruling the world, all we want is to control our own affairs and our own destiny. England needs Scotland a lot more than Scotland needs England, the British Empire is on it's last legs and the world will be a far better place when it does finally expire.}

ED you had me all the way until you suggested that the government were complicit in the brazen murder of Lee Rigby

the reverse …IE why be part of the union was clever…very clever ….

I do like a lot of that you say…but I will counter it …in the interests of fairness

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{Ed007's Note - Try reading the actual facts, Chris Spivey has done extensive work on the Rigby false flag op, look at his website. What jury has never seen any pictures of the murder victim? When have witness statements been read out in court instead of them being sworn in and not allowing cross examination? Why was Rigby portrayed as a family man yet he was seperated from his wife and engaged to another woman? Why are all the pictures of Rigby photoshopped? Why were pictures of other soldiers used as pictures of Rigby? Why were the 'killers' never charged with any terrorism crimes? Why did the press say Rigby had sisters (not step sisters) yet his real dad said Rigby was his only child? Read the facts, not what the media tell you, in North Korea they think Kim Jong-un completed a round of golf in 34 shots because it was reported by the media, does that mean that happened?}

Have a read through this, you'll see how it doesn't add up:

www.chrisspivey.org/the-drummer-man

www.guerrillademocracy.blogspot.co.uk/2014/06/headless-chickens-woolwich-hoax-exposed.html

www.chrisspivey.org/family-friends-and-neighbours-the-complicated-dynamics-of-the-rigby-clan/

I'm trying to free your mind - but I can only show you the door. You're the one that has to walk through it.}

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A Scottish government based in Scotland, made up of Scottish people, in control of ALL of Scotland's income, putting it towards the things that the people of Scotland want it to be used for. How can that be negative? We have the chance to do an amazing thing on Thursday and we can't let it pass by because the No campaign have tried to use scare tactics! Although, being employed in a Faslane it's not the end of the world for me if the vote does go to the No side, it's a win-win for Scotland due to the fact that 97% of those eligible to vote decided to vote. This means that a UK or Scottish government now knows that they can no longer pass bullsh*t legislation without the consent of the people because the people are watching and will stand up and be counted!

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14 Sep 2014 06:57:40
Outstanding Ed. Simply outstanding. You forgot tye decimation of the fishing industry, the poll tax and the fact nobody actually owns anything in the UK. ;) Everything including the land is equitable rights only. Ie as Queenie would say. One is allowed to use it without paying a rental fee. Why do we have to register our cars? Why do we need birth certificates? What is Liberty actually? Were does money come from? Can a bank lend money? Who controls the money supply? What is the definition of 100% tax? What was the the war against Napoleon really about? Did the French revolution actually do anything for Liberty? Was Hitler a socialist? what does the left mean and right mean in politics? is fascism actually on the left?And finally if it was not for George Washington all of us would long since have disappeared under the iron foot of collectivism and fascism. Just a few things to research. If anyone canbe bothered:)

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{Ed001's Note - some nice points in there mate. I had to check which site I was editing then! I hope a few people will take the time to read and research these things. Hopefully they will all take note of the quotes made by the founding fathers in the US and then they would realise that every country needs a fresh start.}

14 Sep 2014 07:53:00
Ed I never even considered Rigby as a false flag op but whilst on holiday (Hawaii🌞🌴) I read 2 9/11 books that blew my mind. The facts and operational anomalies are astonishing. Excellent post about the reasoning for a split pal.

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{Ed007's Note - The lack of blood at the scene and the way the story developed 'flagged' it up right away. If you're interested in that kind of stuff you should check out this page that Ed033 runs.}

Ed, how would you have reported the Lee Rigby incident?.

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{Ed007's Note - The truth would have been a good place to start, or if the situation hadn't been engineered there would be no need for any reporting.}

Hi ed. Nobody in England wants HS2. I think if any party vowed to scrap it they would be certainties to win the next election.
Looking at it from afar, it seems to me, that whether we like it or not big business and bankers govern the country, whatever they want they get. These are the only people who want HS2.
The problem I see with an independent Scotland is that although England does better at the moment, after independence. England would crush Scotland financially, as they would no longer even have to pretend they care about us.
They would make sure that all the major investment and job creation would go south, London is one of the major financial centres in the world. Scotland would not get a look in.
I accept it would be great to take our own decisions, but if these decisions leave us worse off is it worth it
The haŕsh reality is it seems to me is that if Scotland goes it alone, there will be a permanent tory government in London, and they would make sure that England gets everything.
I know it sounds very negative, but what you would like a thing to be and what it will be are two different things, and sometimes you just have to hold your nose and accept the least worse option.

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Its amazing how the Yes campaign neglect to mention the fact shetlands have more of a stake to North Sea oil and many people have been quoted as saying they would not accept rule from Edinburgh as they prefer westminister. (Articles freely available on internet supporting this claim).

It is also interesting to note that Shetlands were part of Norway untill the 15th century. Just thinking outside the box here, but say scotland got independence surely shetlands would be entitled to a referendum on who they want to be a part of?

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14 Sep 2014 12:32:02
Some great reading. I find myself in agreement with both sides, if that's possible!
Scotland could do it, Norway has, with much greater state control. But the demographics of the two countries are vastly different. Taxation is higher, labour costs are much higher. And of course they have their own currency and have built up their own currency reserves.
Having the £ is not going to work.

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To be honest I think the unrealistic picture some of the Yes voters are painting is doing as much damage as the scaremongering from the No camp.


My only hope that after this vote - whichever way it goes, Scotland stays awake. If we don't want the NHS privitised, then we have to fight should any changes be brought about by any future government. Sadly the cynic in me doesn't see this happening and most will just fall asleep again.

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14 Sep 2014 15:20:26
Never mind Scotland, Mrs E.
It should apply to everyone in the UK & NI.
My mortgage is with a Scottish bank. Is there going to be a run on the pound next week?
Or a run on Scottish banks?
Is my interest rate likely to change?

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Mrs E, how can anyone ever think that the NHS "as we know it" can only ever stay the same. EVERYTHING CHANGES just as sure as I am that Monday follows Sunday change is always afoot.

with health deteriorating and poverty stats unchanged and an ageing population, sure we can keep the NHS free at the point of use and "universal" but there is no doubt whatsoever in my mind that an unchanged NHS MUST (and can only!) mean one thing; something else has to "go or be cut" unless we operate for all time a "surplus" and not a deficit.

The NHS need to adapt. Society needs to adapt. Self harming (wittingly) through drug and alcohol abuse, bad diet, general laziness etc will take its toll. Preventative health advertising, education and a social contract between user and service provider is inevitable UNLESS we can keep the cost of NHS in check, but that means every single citizen (with the moral and intellectual capacity) to understand that it works both ways….if there is no disincentive to push back against poor lifestyle choices, the NHS will only ever become more expensive….

I love/admire and have benefitted from NHS intervention …incidentally

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{Ed007's Note - You missed out blaming the amount of immigrants coming into the country.}

14 Sep 2014 16:05:02
My biggest issue has been the same one going back years. How is getting shot of Westminster and hooking up to Brussels, independence? To me, that is just a change of ownership. True independence would be to be like Norway, but I think Salmond is an ego out of control and he wants to play with the other egos in the EU, pretty much the same reason Cameron and Milliband want to be part of the EU.

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Hi ED

you wrote

"I'm trying to free your mind - but I can only show you the door. You're the one that has to walk through it…"

I keep walking in to it …:(

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{Ed007's Note - Kick it open, trust me, you'll feel a lot better for it :)

@13.totally agree with you about Norway, but not about Salmond, as I understand it there will be elections after independence, and then maybe, whichever party that wins can push for Scotland to be like Norway, outwith the EU, but with special trading status or whatever its called.

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{Ed007's Note - The Scottish Government proposals are that Scotland’s Independence Day will be on 24 March 2016. That will ensure that the elections scheduled for 5 May 2016 will be the first elections to an independent parliament, there is a UK wide general election on 7 May 2015 where Scottish MPs will be voted in for a 10 month term. It's all explained in here if you want to find out more.

14 Sep 2014 16:53:38
http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2013/12/12/the-shetland-card/

Have a look into this article. An interesting read regarding oil rights and the shetlands.

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14 Sep 2014 16:56:42
Come on Ed your not being totally accurate there. We both know once you kick the door in. Its a week of sleepless nights. 6 months of total shock and amazement mixed with incredulousnessness(new word to emphasise the amount of incredulousness) A year or so of checking your back, trusting no-one. After a while you settle down and realise if you are interested in the truth you will be sailing close to the wind and that's the way it is. Better by far than ignorance and sleepwalking zombie like to infinity.

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{Ed007's Note - The sleepless nights were tough going, and the nightmares, but it'll be all worth it in the end.}

Juicer if you have a fixed rate then it won't change, there could be a currency conversion cost if we don't use sterling though. Obviously when your fixed rate period is over then that's another story, there will definitely be a period of financial instability if its a Yes vote. Incidentally i'm not in favour of any currency union, Bank of England independent of Westminster - nae bother. When we bought our first house in the early 90's the interest rates were 17% so there is no guarantees with staying in the Union either.

Paradise, folk are having major heated exchanges over how we can keep the NHS from privitisation and is being used as part of both sides campaign. I know the challenges facing public services are not as cut and dried as what we like to believe, human nature does play its part. I was going to have a rant about this but as its the Sabbath I won't lol

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14 Sep 2014 17:23:04
Sorry Ed I forgot about the nightmares. I find an iodine supplement helps.

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14 Sep 2014 18:27:12
OK ok, less of the neo.

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ED you won't have to worry about the sleepless nights and the nightmares, as you will be nation building in dubai.

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{Ed007's Note - I will still have family and friends who I care about and who will have to live with the consequences, some of us care about the bigger picture. None of my extended family will ever have any money worries, does that mean I shouldn't care that there are foodbanks in Scotland in 2014, that people working aren't making enough money to feed their kids, should I just turn a blind eye to the amount of kids living in poverty, that's the classic Tory outlook, 'I'm all right Jack, f**k you'.
There are people living in squalor all over Scotland through no fault of their own, kids who are starving and scraping by in life, who have never known what a good hot square meal tastes like, whose parents have had their spirit broken by a system who doesn't care what happens to them, kids who have been systematically abused sexually/mentally and emotionally but nobody believes them or if they do the perverts close ranks to protect each other, this is all going on under our noses, look at Rotherham just now, Elm Guest House, Haut de la Garenne in Jersey and Kincora Boys Home in Belfast. These are the people running our 'cuntry' and have been for the last 50/60 years. Have a look at this website or even this one and tell me everything's OK, we're better together!
How many victims of abuse during their childhood become alcoholics and drug abusers because they're level of self-worth is so low they don't care if they live or die, they feel it was all their fault, if it wasn't surely someone should help you? People feel that no matter what way they turn for help another door is slammed in their face, their drink/drugs are their escape, if nobody helps them what do you expect them to do, they don't know any other way of getting through a day.
In saying that, everything I've mentioned, poor diets, drugs and alcohol, self harming etc you say they're a burden on the NHS....

'The NHS need to adapt. Society needs to adapt. Self harming (wittingly) through drug and alcohol abuse, bad diet, general laziness etc will take its toll. Preventative health advertising, education and a social contract between user and service provider is inevitable UNLESS we can keep the cost of NHS in check, but that means every single citizen (with the moral and intellectual capacity) to understand that it works both ways….if there is no disincentive to push back against poor lifestyle choices, the NHS will only ever become more expensive….'

With the Tories plans for the NHS who's going to pay the medical costs for some 15 year old girl who has ran away from home , even from social care, to escape abusers and ends up on the streets begging for money, drinking and jagging smack just to welcome the oblivion they bring, who's going to help her? Our current government aren't, so what good would your 'Preventative health advertising, education and a social contract between user and service provider' do for the thousands of youngsters in that situation?

Can you even put a price on helping today's youngsters have a better and brighter future? No matter where you live the safety of kids worldwide must be a high priority, it's your kids and grandkids they are failing and who face a bleak future, the system is broken and they only way we can fix it is by major change, we won't get that change under Tory rule.}

If you are that concerned why don;t you stay back and nation build here then

why are you going elsewhere >>>

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{Ed007's Note - To get away from people like you.}

Ed I value your judgement in many things . What do you think the outcome of the Ind. Vote will be .?

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{Ed007's Note - It's too close to call, buddy, it really is. If you look at the people on the ground and a look at the public consensus YES should romp home but that's not going to happen. I'm quietly confidant that intelligence will take over fear and swing it to YES.}

Hi ED

I care about the bigger picture, IE I would be happy to pay more tax if I thought there would be better crime statistics, better health and education outcomes and I would dearly love to see redistributive taxation and a closing of the equality gap

we turn a blind eye to poverty every day and pursue personal goals and from time to time reflect on those less fortunate and from time to time make modest interventions (modest because the majority of us are scared about having nothing ourselves so we hoard a little more just in case)

You call it a TORY outlook, IE "I'm all right Jack", sadly I think it is now cross party as they are central (to right. ) in the pockets of big business…

There are people living in squalor in scotland but there are people living in squalor in england and wales and NI too, so Scotland is not alone and the rUK is not immune

kids systematically abused (news wise) has been more evident down south than up north and before you say anything my good friend is head of sexual crimes unit in scotland so I know the stats on that (and don't need to do any research), as above these abysmal statistics are geography blind

these "people" running our country…we had 59 MPs then that were complicit and PMs and labour leaders who were scottish (!)

So ED if I understand you correctly, according to you every poor lifestyle choice can be linked back to sexual, mental and emotional abuse and thus there is no such thing north and south of the border as a lazy b***** who is happy enough with the benefits they scrounge?

I have explicitly said that those who cannot help themselves need all the help and high level intervention

I hinted (IE NHS) that the costs of NHS will only ever go up (continually) unless we find a way to disincentive people to make better decisions re health, diet, fitness, and the like …


Your story re the 15 year old girl (and I note they exist) is shocking, truly shocking and we agree on that ….you blame the TORIES and I blame the system generally and the pursuit of greed, power and influence whereby we have lost sight of what is important in a "society" that (incidentally) as you allude to, haven't witnessed the deterioration of all of those things that we (thought we held) dear to our hearts IE social justice, fairness, good health for all, protection from baddies etc

you have turned my little rant about the NHS in to something different, very cleverly

the 15 year old should ever be in that position
she/he deserves better and as a society we should be thoroughly ashamed but the abusers were / are part of our society
I used the NHS story as a means to highlight a very smile FACT, the costs will not come down any time soon and so unless we can afford to spend more and more, something has to give elsewhere…hardly a breakthrough statement

you think the CHANGE that we need will come through Independence which means that you actually believe that ONLY TORIES or those who think in a TORY way are responsible for these miserable outcomes re abused kids. Do you have any idea how ridiculous that sounds. Could you look a tory voting school teacher on £30,000 a year in the face and blame him/her for the reality that the 15 year old girl in rotherham faces

that is too simplistic, even for you ED

you think Independence in Scotland will fix all of this even though you have listed controversies in belfast, jersey and rotherham …. everywhere but scotland

I know I am in a minority with my public declarations but why don't we probe ourselves a little more RE what we would be prepared to go without to create a fairer society in scotland….

we could be part of the UK and volunteer a % of our take home (after tax) and become (per capita) the most generous and charitable citizens on earth….that would be interesting to see how many would give of their time and their money too make a material difference

you think that ethos exists today and that independence will guarantee/delivery it…


forget governments and politics, if that were true we would be doing it right now but we are not ….

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{Ed007's Note - Sometimes people hold a core belief that is very strong. When they are presented with evidence that works against that belief, the new evidence cannot be accepted. It would create a feeling that is extremely uncomfortable, called cognitive dissonance. And because it is so important to protect the core belief, they will rationalise, ignore and even deny anything that doesn't fit in with the core belief.}

Mrs E

I want a free NHS that is universal with no caveats

it costs money

we can ring-fence, absolutely and we can take away from some other budget line or line)s)

we can of course grow our economy exponentially and have this extraordinary national utopia …possible yes, timeframe unknown?….

it ain't rocket science. we live in a bedevilled world….whether we like it or not we are part of it, complicit in it, need to survive within it and will stand or fall by it…

I wish I had lots of land and was handy with food growing technologies and knitting …then I'd be fine

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Oh dear…big price to pay and some would say "too far" LOL and what do you expect to find in Dubai…ROFPML

Dubai…aye that makes sense PMSL

Are you at the wind up?

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{Ed007's Note - Ed001 and Ed033 moved out there earlier this year, it's where our offices are now, and it's some difference from Tewkesbury!}

LOL :)

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Paradise that's the question though - what other budget lines do you take it away from, education, welfare benefits, housing or do you raise income tax?

You have to vote how you feel is right for yourself and your family. I have very strong views on why mine is a Yes vote but I've spoke to a lot of folk in work and socially, there is genuine fear of the unknown which I have to respect.

Not everyone is a raving Royalist and Unionist and it's not right to stereotype this way.

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Agreed Mrs E

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As an outsider looking in a yes vote is only the start, next move would be to remove Salmond and any other slimy politician owned by Murdoch

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Uk wide the nhs loses 800m per annulment due to theft and corruption from within! Good place to start?

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Per annum!

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