14 Jun 2015 22:53:46
Hi all,
Felt compelled to write after hearing of Man City's purported £155m deal for the Manchester United reject and current Juventus midfielder Pogba. No harm to the lad but this once again accentuates ALL that is wrong with football! What happened to financial fair play and linkage to turnover? I know that Man City's owners will work through some kind of loophole to boost revenue (IE stadium naming rights at a super inflated rate) but there is nothing positive that can come from this. It is more the wages and not the fee per se. I say this because if Juventus spend the £80m fee on 4 £20m players then all that is happening is that the money is going in and out and round in circles (I presume around the top 10 clubs akin to a private members club of sorts). If they all spend big and spend it on each others players, then all they are doing is moving the same tranche of money around, but for everyone else it creates a 2nd class, 3rd class and 4th class system whereby joe average can achieve £40k to £50k per week and rank average can net £30k per week etc.
The impact on competition is also very damaging.
I would love to see a breakaway involving the likes of Celtic, Rangers, Ajax, PSV, Rapid Vienna, Feyenoord, Red Bull, Legia, Oporto, Sporting Lisbon, Benfica, Andrelecht, Brugges, and Rosenborg etc where there is (1) a cap on salaries like America's NFL, (2) a requirement to honour contracts for the full term of the contract unless the club triggers a final year release clause thus commanding a fee etc (3) an across the board youth development policy that involves 3 under 21s playing in the first eleven and an under 21 substitute (not necessarily nationals from that club's origin country) and (4) equal distribution of all non club specific revenues (EG TV money).
This league would be tied back to the national associations who participate. There could be potentially 8 leagues of 20 etc (IE 160 participants).
This whole project would be based on competitiveness, financial fair play and salary capping etc. Players playing in this set up can leave the set up if they so wish and move to the likes of Barcelona and Real and Man United etc. But this set up would be totally independent. It would need to be to maintain competition etc.
I would imagine that once the fat cats get tired playing against one another, they would see the power of competition and the attractiveness of competition and even playing fields (like the NFL) and they would be banging our door down to come and play!
15 Jun 2015 01:17:10
i like the way you think paradse.
15 Jun 2015 02:29:07
I like the way you think paradise you've obviously spent a long time thinking over the subject of your post. I don't doubt for one minute that every football supporter has the same feelings and ideas as you do however as you know money talks. The bigger clubs, fifa, uefa and TV companies would never subscribe to this vision. There are two many greedy people in this world making money from football in its current for and they will do everything to protect it.
The reported possible transfer of Pogba symbolises everything that is wrong with football and society in general but if the money continues to be pumped into football in the quantities we are seeing now players will continue to ask for more and more. It just won't be a pretty sight when it all goes boom.
{Ed007's Note - Without being pendantic Pogba isn't a Man Utd reject, there was a lot of behind the scenes politics and if anything Pogba rejected them, I'm sure it was AF's fault, But what a player he is!!! If I remember right there was problems and questions about the way Pogba left Le Havre to join Utd too. It looks like He's one of those players that will cause controversy wherever he goes but again, what a player!!
Ravel Morrison could have been in the same class as Pogba if he had made better choices andoth of them together in Utds midfield would have been frightening.
Anyway, Broony will sort Pogba out if we ever come across him :)
15 Jun 2015 07:27:49
We already have the power to stop these crazy over inflated prices in football but most are not exercising it. Think we are all in agreement that the main cause of the problem is over inflated tv money being pumped in. To stop that all we need to do is stop paying these tv companies for their football packages. Everyone who pays sky or by money is part of the problem.
15 Jun 2015 09:12:33
Totally agree Rab that is why I don't have any football subscription channels. I remember when watching a game on TV especially a European cup game was a special occasion. Now during the season you can practically watch a game every day whether it be a domestic one or a European league.
15 Jun 2015 10:19:08
ED,
Point noted re Pogba…however back to the vision….
re UEFA. FIFA and TV etc, they cannot MAKE any club play to their rules and to recognise their respective jurisdictions. With this proposed vision, the following leagues would remain and participate in UEFA Champions League etc ENGLAND, ITALY, FRANCE, SPAIN, GERMANY, RUSSIA, TURKEY and PORTUGAL.
A new, wholly independent football franchise would emerge under the guise of European Football League (the EFL) and the associations would be saying (basically) we are breaking away to create an international league committed to competition, fairness and the aggregate TV audience would ensure adequate scope for decent revenues to be built. The EFL would invite BELGIUM, SCOTLAND, HOLLAND, AUSTRIA, DENMARK, NORWAY, POLAND, SWEDEN, GREECE AND CZECH REPUBLIC.
This would not affect national football, IE world cup etc. This would be a different circuit. The EFL 1 would have the top 2 ranked teams from each of the 10 countries (20 teams say Anderlecht, Brugges, Celtic, Rangers, PSV, Ajax, Rapid Vienna, Red Bull, Brondby, FC Copenhagen, Rosenborg, Lillestrom, Legia Warsaw, Lech Poznan, Malmo, IFK Gothenburg, Panathanaikos, Olympiakos, Sparta Prague and Dukla Prague for example. The EFL 2, 3 4 and 5 would also have 20 clubs. The national leagues would still have domestic leagues below EFL4 and their would be some mechanism to allow clubs in the domestic leagues to get up in to the EFL (E pyramid system). Along the lines of the following…if say you were an ICT and you were not one of the original 10 and you were wining your domestic league, you would participate in a league of 10 (9 games in total) with other national league leaders and the top 2 from that league would play in play offs between the bottom 2 clubs in EFL 4. I accept that this could conceivably result in more clubs from a particular association (say Holland) having slightly more representation through time but that would be EARNED not bought due to the salary capping mechanisms and the spreading of revenues.
I envisage a league where you play 19 games and then break away in to a league of 10 and play 9 further games. So 28 games in total. There would be promotion and relegation.
All other associations would either stay in the current system or apply to opt in to our own but the EFL would start out with 10 associations. If UEFA and FIFA didn't recognise it then that would mean no Champions League and Europa League but so what? We could have our own little international cup competitions.
The key to our leagues would be that there would be a cap on salaries, a sharing of the wealth so that no association team had a financial monopoly. Keep in mind that a popular club will drive its own financial future to some extent, IE merchandise and season tickets and sponsorship etc so you could still have a Celtic with a significantly larger turnover but they would still only be permitted to pay players a fixed amount on the high side, say £50,000 per week maximum. There would be nothing stopping Celtic from splashing the cash on transfers albeit a player could only be purchased on the final year of his contract. No player in the EFL would be allowed to exit a club unless it is in the player's final year of contract and only the club could initiate the release. Not the player. Not the agent. Not the press etc!
I accept that the best players in the world would not want to be in the EFL circuit given that they could make more money with the world's top clubs in the current system but that would be a tolerable consequence. Our circuit would be balanced, fair, competitive, where success could not be BOUGHT. We would be a playground for the world's best youth with the 3 player starting eleven rule etc.
A TV market of +100m.
My firm belief is that this would be a pre-cursor to a seismic shift in how the game is delivered and administered. COMPETITION is absolutely key. The idea that you can be successful without putting your club in financial peril. The idea that a dynasty could be built without needing an Arab Sheikh or Russian Oligarch to fund success.
I recognise the view may be utopian in its nature. It may be dismissed for its naivety. The starting point for most would be to say it is unworkable and they won't allow this or permit that or worse still …who are Dukla Prague exactly? But this vision is about creating change and proving up a future for football and many of football's falling giants. It would also be an opportunity to the less glamorous (but nonetheless ambitious) clubs to enhance their stock. The likes of a Legia Warsaw with their shiny new stadium and youthful, vibrant culture and fanatical support.
I may have the leagues wrong. This is to represent a starter for ten, an idea. On financing such a league, league TV revenue and sponsorship would be divided across all member clubs in the 5 EFL leagues with a minimum £sum to allow for travel and other misc expenses arising out of increased participation costs.
On salary capping, we would effectively be saying that no player can achieve in excess of £50,000 per week, but to make it even more interesting, we could say that playing squad aggregate wages could not exceed £500,000 per week to avoid a scenario whereby a club could just glibly sign 20 players on £50k per week.
To repeat this would be about competition, designed to make it competitive, tight, unpredictable and above all marketable.
Rip it apart by all means but in so doing, ponder an alternative that can give us back a fair, balanced game.
15 Jun 2015 18:12:46
I think as a concept this is really well thought out but may prove to be next to impossible to implement given the politics and complexities and of course the complete inertia that surround UEFA and protection of the status quo.
One thing that really p****s me off is the Champions League structure and the way it protects the so called big names at the expense of the smaller.
IF they just changed the qualifying structure to do ONE thing I would be happy with EVERY national league champion goes automatically into the CL Group stages. no more top 4 from England, Germany, Spain etc. JUST the champions and every 2nd, 3rd, 4th etc has to play qualifying games like we have been forced to.
That would even things out significantly and we relatively simple to implement with speed.
Just a thought
15 Jun 2015 22:49:15
Paradisewon I completely agree with the sentiment of your thoughts but could go on all day about how and why it simply wouldn't work in the current era as paulbhoy has also pointed out (you even mentioned a few reasons yourself). Doing so wouldn't be productive for anyone because in principle it is a sound idea and the problem with ideas is regardless of how sensible it is, you can always be pedantic and pick it apart. It is worthy of merit as your idea is about creating a fair sporting competition! sadly the problem there is fairness and modern day money making sporting 'competition' just don't mix.
One point I completely agree with is the wage structures in place as the money given to the downright useless and idiotic footballers of this world is a sham. An American style cap could make a lot of sense in the modern game, however this too has some pitfalls , the NHL lockout a few years ago for example.
I think at the moment the best we can hope for is the troubles at FIFA spread all the way through the game and all clubs are forced to adopt a fairer strategy to governing/financing the game domestically, continentally ( don't care if that isn't a real word) and worldwide.
there are many ways I think you could generate more interest and increase completion and revenues as an alternative, but all have equally big potential pitfalls.
I dunno say for example every team starts by playing within their national set up playing each team home and away For their regular league title (obvs would need modification for larger or smaller leagues but could be worked on) Say the top 2 teams from each division in 10 nations play a regular season of 20 games then play a mini league against the 19 others in a Euro Division giving circa 40 league games a season a cross 2 competitions. You could expand this to the 3rd and 4th placed teams going into Euro Division 2 and so on. Because this setup wouldn't have home and away ties all gates would be split 50/50( this could get very messy I know but hey it's just thinking in print)
This could give a bigger pool for the larger clubs to lure in more revenue by playing bigger/different opposition, would only mean 9 or 10 away trips rather than 19 or 20 in a full blown European league. It would also expose 'smaller' domestic clubs to a different style of play and allow more players the opportunity to expand their game and allow the decent youth players at these so called 'smaller clubs' another platform to improve.
It would also give clubs like Dundee United say more opportunity to keep their better players and perhaps grow themselves, as 3rd in the league doesn't mean just 1 tricky tie away to Whomever from Albania early in pre-season, it means a decent crack at a few decent sized clubs on a more permanent European setting and a chance to showcase talents on a grander scale than just the SPFL (spit). Surely this could also only increase values of said players as if you show up as well against a larger club in Europe than you might have faced domestically surely you've got a better chance to get a move to a bigger club for more money to you and to your old team and so more money potentially filters its way down to these kinds of clubs. I would definitely keep your U21 type rules (or similar)for any potential setup though.
I could go on as many whom have read me on here before would testify. Sadly any changes like these look workable on paper but as soon as the ones holding the power get a whiff of an alternative it will be shut down as the money is staying where it is for the time being and they ain't giving it up.
16 Jun 2015 12:28:53
Paradisewon one glaring error in the make-up of your new grouping . You obviously are not allocating teams to this new competition based on football merit or ability.
I don't know about all the rest of the teams , they may or may not deserve entrance to this cross Europe league but Rangers/Sevco are not even in the top division in Scotland . At the moment the second team from Scotland , if there should be one , should be Aberdeen , allocating teams other than on football merit is a recipe for disaster.