Celtic Banter Archive December 14 2013

14 Dec 2013 23:35:18
The Club has just been given its 7th fine in just under 7 years from UEFA and I think we all know it cannot go on:-

March 2007 - 2 incidents of plastic bottles been thrown towards the pitch at the San Siro against AC Milan. Nominal fine of £420


Oct 2007 - fan on the pitch running at Milan goalkeeper Dida. £25,000 (half was suspended for a 2 year probationary period)

Nov 2008 - fan invaded the pitch against Man Utd. £42, 400

Nov 2011 - illicit Pro IRA chanting during the match against Rennes. £12, 700

Dec 2011 - F**K UEFA banner and flares being let off before the Udinese match. £21,000

July 2013 - Fireworks let's off during the match against Cliftonville. £4, 200

Dec 2013 - Banner depicting William Wallace and Bobby Sands in protest against Offensive Behaviour at Football Act. £42,000

This is just fines from UEFA. I know Social Network sites are full of discussion about Celtic's stance on this and I do think they are alienating fans.

I would like to see this situation resolved asap with the GB and the 128 fans 'suspended' after last Friday's match against Motherwell.

Sadly I don't see any resolution to this Mrs E. It appears that the GB are denying any of there members were involved at Motherwell, but do concede they might have been 'more active' in stopping the whole mess.

The GB have to understand that Celtic are powerless in this, the fines have to be paid by the club.They also have to be seen to be taking action.If certain banners are banned they, along with the flares and smoke bombs, must never be seen in the stadium again.

While I think it is wrong for any organisation to dictate what is a proper place for political activism those are the rules.

I don't believe this is still being dragged out by some. Just give it a rest. They've done it and they've been punished end off. I think it's dawned on the GB now that they're not significant, unimportant. Do they still exist? They're only the GB if they're in a gang in section 111.
They also lie so I wouldn't believe the story it wasn't them at motherwell. Aye right! Flares thrown from under the GB banner. They have previous for deceit and lying, giving Celtic FC assurances that there wouldn't be illicit banners before the game then rolling out the 12 banners making up the Wallace/ sands nonsense.
What advertisers want to sponsor Celtic or link to our brand when our brand is being sullied by visuals of Irish terrorism? Get real and think about the big picture. There's actually people offended by Wallace (the city of York, all of England) never mind Sands, are we in the market of offending people?

I just want it all resolved and soon GJ.

There's faults on both sides with the fans and the Club, you have to wonder if the Club would have taken such an extreme stance after Fir Park had they not been fined by UEFA (or at the time, a disciplinary hanging over them).

The GB have taken some responsibility to a point - their stickers were also all over the vandalised part of Fir Park, why do they need to produce stickers anyway? They must know their appeal is to young fans!

This is now involving the whole support with the suspension of 128 Season Tickets, many not involved in any vandalism or throwing of flares etc. Its not on!

@2 you're having a laugh about the banners aren't you . 50 complaints = £42,000 fine . Who complained that night? The city of York or 50 English people who have never seen Braveheart. Weren't you more offended and angry that Ajax got paltry fine for their "f***** b*******" banner . I don't condone flares and seat breaking I actually think it's out of order but I also don't like the way the GB are being treated by Celtic FC and the Laptop Loyal . No mention of the food banks etc that are being set up by the GB . I wonder why . DH

I think there is a case to answer for flares/smoke bombs, stadia damage and 'missiles' being thrown - violence.
But the only banners that should be banned are ones with obscene language or racist/sectarian abuse.
Otherwise you could spend forever splitting hairs on political and moral high ground issues - in a country that boasts freedom of speech. Anyway;
Do the stewards not have the power to remove any such banner or supporters who display them?

JJ

14 Dec 2013 21:58:09
Steve Clarke been relieved of his duties at West Brom? There's your new Celtic manager right there.

Why would we need a new manager? Is it just because the current one refuses to patronize the neds and plastic freedom fighters in one tiny part of the stadium?

Seriously I'm cringing at some of the stuff you've been posting in the last fee weeks.
CBP

HB doesn't come across as a Celtic fan at all. He is first and foremost a politically driven individual with an unfathomable agenda to do with a bygone age in NI. Which has nothing to do with the contemporary situation in NI. Celtic comes a long second to that and is being used for tiny minority political gatherings against the wishes of the vast majority football fans.

I think Clarke would be a very good addition to the back room as he is a phenomenal coach, but tempting him away from England would be hard.

JJ

14 Dec 2013 21:38:20
Hi first time post. But I'd like to say I enjoy the site very good indeed. Iam season ticket holder at park head and Peter lawell has crossed the line not only has he baned our support from there own stadium now he's picking on the kids that are just singing total embarrassing he should stop this right now he's starting to think he can treat every fan that has gb on there t shirt that its not the celtic way. Mr lawell your not bigger than celtic. Celtic fans should unite against this man who does he think he is.???

Have we ever had this at celtic park b4. Can't remember celtic fans ever getting treated like this b4 and standing for it!!

Once again a pick on Peter Lawwell guy. It's the full board comes to these decisions not Peter Lawwell, for all we know Lawwell might have been the lone voice on behalf of the fans. Nobody knows least of all you.
Our manager has stated his position on it all and 99% of fans are with him and against the minority "fans" you appear to side with.

14 Dec 2013 20:52:32
well, I think we should stop paying money for any players for a while, give youth the chance, fed up with foreign imports, definately need more scots.wf

14 Dec 2013 15:21:18
Hi ed,

Appreciate your input as its usually pretty sound, just wondered what your thoughts are on incomings and outgoings in January? Or u think they'll not be much business til the summer? And finally what's your honest opinion on what we've got just now, squad wise.

Much appreciated

Stuart nic

{Ed007's Note - I'll be surprised if there are any players brought in during January, it is always more difficult to deals than it is in the summer. I know NL has said he wants to buy players in January that will be ready to play in the CL qualifiers but I can only see that happening if the player is going to be out of contract in the summer and his club sells him to us for a nominal fee. Plus it tells you that the players he is looking at won't be at the World Cup.
I said on another thread if Ledley and Samaras haven't signed a new contract we should sell them in January and at least get some money in for them. Apart from that I think it will be a quiet window for us.
As for our squad, if we had signed a proven quality goal-scorer and someone to add a creative spark from the centre of MF we would have been a completely different prospect this season.
Personally I would also like to see another CB brought in to play alongside van Dijk with Ambrose as a back up CB. Next summer Izaguirre will be going into the last year of his contract so unless he signs an extension I'd sell him, so we could need a new LB or just promote Chalmers up to the first team. Mulgrew I would use as a back up CB/LB or as a CDM if we are using that tactic. I would let Boerrigter, Commons, McGeouch and Forrest fight it out for the wide positions.
With Brown, Kayal or Biton playing in the middle alongside a new CAM, Commons or Rogic we would be well covered right across the entire midfield.
I have said all season that I think Pukki and Stokes are too similar in style to play together so they would need to fight it out for the secondary striker role playing behind the quality goalscorer we are needing.
We should have players in the youth set-up ready to make the step up if they are needed.}

Cheers ed, yeah I'm pretty much thinking the same can't see any decent investment the now and think we'll be lucky to have a year like last years in Europe for a good while

Stuart nic

14 Dec 2013 17:13:07
It seems now that the enemy are now within CP, it won't stop at the GB .Divide and conquer.

Never though I would say get rid of Lawwell, I'm saying it today, now tearing the heart out of the club. What is his final goal? .Who is he appeasing?

Celtic should be at their strongest now. CP should be a fortress where every man woman and child should be standing shoulder to shoulder against all the negativities been hurled at them from those that are hurting by what has happened to their cesspit, instead it seems CFC are been influenced at the top by something curroupt and rotten .

Maybe time for fan power.

Let the people sing .

Heard of fans getting hassle from police and stewards for trying to enter the ground with GB merch on? Heard fans were harassed for standing + singing? Also heard there was a scuffle over a CSC banner supporting the GB?!

They won't be happy until CP is Scotland's answer to the Emirates: Enter stadium with excessively priced ticket, sit down, shut up, buy expensive HT catering, back to your seat to sit down, shut up, leave via superstore spending more dosh.

Agree, now looking like double agent Lawell.
shafted rebel share holders at pre agm meeting with the drop the complaint to eufa, and I`ll make Bremner jibe.
Fans love him, Sfa now no eufa enquiry, love him,
ffs it took sevco nearly a week to be convinced by Ogilvie to make a complaint and that it was all done for their benefit.
Peter accepts slap on wrist, same club question ignored.
for sevco/Sfa result.

A sit in south west stand and group bout twenty boys moved seats up to back of stand which was empty and started singing within minutes stewards were up at them telling them to sit dwn and then two police were up filming them the full game why is this necessary not once did these lads sing a rebel song all they were doing was enjoying them self the stewards and police at park head are a joke it seems all they want is a full stadium sitting in quiet watching a game to be fair to crowd roundabout they all starting singing and standing but it does seen nowadays its a crime to support your team. One funny moment came though when a young boy went over to the police and started filming them there reaction was priceless lol

I read that Celtic are in favour of bringing back standing at matches, is that right?
LFC

No chance now LFC. There's more chance of Celtic becoming the next Arsenal: Corporate club/business, corporate stadium, corporate fans/customers. Slowly but surely the flame of Brother Walfrod's vision is fizzling out!

Unlike last week my nephew who was at the game says at away games police/stewards always hassle GB.
last week police/stewards just ignored them setting of flares standing on seats, says he never seen so many young supporters in the one section.
also thinks under cover guys in hoodies inciting the young team.
don't condone the young teams actions but it does look like
celtic have colluded with the police in setting up the GB.

enough rope and all that.
bennybhoy.

Hi Ed- much did the ball go for?

{Ed007's Note - £270 Benny.}

@5 And what was Brother Walfrid's vision Hamiltonbhoy?
Tambhoy

Andrew Kerins aka Marist Brother Walfrid set up Celtic if memory serves me as a vehicle for the children and the unemployed to be fed.
I believe in those days if you were poor and starving as long as you towed the line and joined the right gang or criminal group you could get access to food. Brother Walfrid decided he would like to break such a cycle of wickedness and monopoly of the rich and criminal preying on the poor and vulnerable people. In this case Irish catholic immigrants in the east end. Does anyone see any irony in this? If you don't I will make a more obvious point. CFC were set up for honourable decent and good reasons primarily as a servant of the people and community from which it and they came. It was of the people for the people. Now where are we? The club is now most definitely served by the community from which it came. I keep saying this remember the song and remember the History. Its not all about vanquishing opponents on the field. Its about the fact that CFC is or was set up at least to vanquish control poverty criminality ignorance and slavery. Apologies for jumping in as I am sure HB can answer as he pleases but its a little pet subject of mine and so many people don't really know or care about the real history. Certainly if actions and reactions are anything to go by. Sopotcelt.

Why didn't they sit in their purchased seats but moved together to seats that weren't there's?
Let's get the small behaviours right and the big behaviours should take care of themselves.

@9-exactly lack of proper policing/stewarding, why allow them to take seats that weren`t theirs.
Do as you please its a Friday and we can`t be bothered given you hassle tonight. Bizarre behaviour and a lack of authority shown considering the police really enjoy a bit of GB baiting.
then a read today Lawell called in selected members of the press on the Monday morning, for a strictly of the record briefing saying "I`ll load the gun you fire the bullets " about the 128 supporters suspended.
conspiracy anyone.
bennybhoy

@8 I am quite well aware why Brother Walfrid started Celtic, where in his remit did it say, " cause vandalism at football game's, where did it say break the law, where did it say support republicanism from the sideline's at a football ". What has to be realised now is that CELTIC must conform to the law.
Tambhoy

@9 So by your reckoning if it's pouring with rain, people at the front, who are getting soaked should not move to seat's, where they will be covered, it seem's to me that these people moved so a better atmosphere could be achieved, I see no problem with them moving if other seat's are empty.
Tambhoy

Tambhoy. Good you know the history. But IMO you like so many others and don't take this personally are being played like violins. People are constantly and insatiably argueing about or irrelevant points and knit picking the who said what and when stuff. I could counter you with unimportant and petty point scoring which I won't do. I want to discuss the bigger issues not because I think I am important but because we all have to look at the bigger picture here. And that bigger picture is the context of us as supporters of this club and how we interact with the monolithic and ever more controlling state and government. Sopotcelt

@12 fair point if seats available.

But the Celtic section was sold out, applied for two tickets and was told my application was in to late and
tickets were all gone.
now convinced Celtic played their part in seating so many young people in the one section
Also don't believe the GB were allowed to cherry pick an area.
ffs imagine some wee boy saying to you "go and find yerself another seat mate am going to sit here"

seating all pre-planned set up.

@14 could you tag please Ed, not trying to be anon thought I was logged in.
bennybhoy.

@14 Benny I am talking about Saturday, the Celtic end was not full by any manner of mean's, so I will say again if seat's were empty, why not let them move
Tambhoy

@13 Sopocelt In what way am I being played like a violin ( and I did take it personally), My mam and da, taught me what was right and what was wrong, I am arguing about the thing's that are happening to the team I support, so when people do thing's to hurt that team I will voice my opinion, you have your opinion on the controlling state and government, I do not have an opinion on that, I will say I do not agree with the new legislation when it trie's to stop me supporting my team in the RIGHT manner
Tambhoy

14 Dec 2013 11:46:40
our main goal should be getting ryan gauld. massive talent who will bring in a lot of money one day. I even think that our chances are quite good if we want to buy him. he's still young and would probably like to stay in scotland. at all different teams he wouldn't get much playing time which we could perhaps offer him. he would learn a lot from brown.

Are you serious? Brown would learn a lot from Gauld, how to control and pass through a game instead of bad tackles and kicks at players

14 Dec 2013 05:43:12
Lennon on TV standing by his summer signings, named each of them and said they will improve and come good.
I'm not listening to any more nonsense in here that these guys are imposed on him and he has no say. He looks them all over at lennoxtown and says aye or nae. Other trialists turn up and he doesn't keep them. It's clearly his call and he's on Telly standing by his summer decisions.
I'm not listening to the board bought them p!sh anymore.
From what I've seen, I think Pukki has something and will come good in spl. The lad has speed and skills, just needs to be less anxious and settle.

I agree with you on the Pukki statement, he looks like he has got something about him, his movement is good but he just needs the confidence of banging a few goals maybe for a couple of games in a row. I do think he needs someone to play off though as he isn't built for a target man or lone striker role, hopefully Stokes and him can create a good partnership.
I'm reserving Judgement on Derk & Balde as they need more time but I have a feeling they may end up going the way of Bangura et al.
I think we will be lucky to hold on to Van Dijk, he has definitely been the best acquisition of the summer, and in my opinion does 2 jobs. his own and trying to mop up Ambrose' F**k ups.

Roll on January window!
HH

Well that's true guys can't come in here trying to back up Lenny by blaming the board when Lenny's on Telly saying they're his guys and he brought them in.

Pukki reminds me of Petrov in that in both their first seasons they showed promise, had some nice touches, looked overweight, didn't perform and generally not very settled looking. Hopefully pukkis second season will be the same as petrovs.

14 Dec 2013 01:16:45
I think the Management and the Board should take note. We as fans do not want 6 million pound strikers or midfielders. We want the players on the field to be professional and try their hardest to be all they can be. That did not happen against Barcelona.
Greenock Bhoy

I'd much prefer to have a couple of £6million players who walk straight into the team than 5 or 6 two million pound squad players. We've got enough young players to fill the squad who just don't seem to be getting a chance.

Marky we all said that six months ago but were ignored. Lenny and the board had a different approach and look where we are. Even smith at old RFC knew the difference a £6m guy like Jelavic makes. Ferguson has stated it also. A ring with one large diamond is always a better investment than a ring with three small diamonds.
I don't think finnbogasson is as good as Jelavic or worth that kind of money.

13 Dec 2013 23:48:48
neil lennon and the board are correct. Facts are we need £30m to run the club per season therefore cl monies this year buy us another year in the black although I think big fraser will leave next summer or perhaps in January and for decent money also no doubt vvd for go fo big money in future.

regarding Neil who has had some shocking results and has given us some great memories I still am proud to have had him at the club both as player and manager also after what he has had to endure 11 people jailed for offences against him family moved to safe houses during the night 6 time who would have put up with that.

finally I remember big jock during 9 in a row only won 2 trebles lost to partick thistle Dundee etc in finals and the European cup was a more level playing field no seeding and down to luck of draw.

be carefull for what you wish for

{Ed007's Note - Well the sales of Hooper, Wanyama and Wilson plus partial ST money and that is the the £30m covered next year (none of those fees were included in this years accounts) so this year's CL earnings, the remaining ST money from next year and all the sponsorship, merchandise and corporate facilities money plus any other incoming transfer fees should be able to be spent on players. Do you think it will be?
Be careful who you listen too.}

14 Dec 2013 00:14:55
We can't gaurentee big money sales or champions league football in the future so is it not wise to keep a some by so there is still some money to spend

{Ed007's Note - No. Spend it now on the quality of player who will take us into the CL group stages. Get our majority shareholder to put his hand in his pocket to fund some quality signings. He isn't going to be going hungry if he put down say £20m of his own money to spend on the team.
The board can't boast about how well the club is doing then plead poverty when it is time to invest in the team, unless they don't trust NL to spend their money wisely.
We were talking about WGS earlier on, if Desmond had given Strachan £40/50 million to spend and told him not to ask for another penny for 5 years, any money he made from buying and selling players would be his but the board wouldn't invest for another 5 years we would be a totally different club on and off the field today.
All CL earnings, TV money, sponsorship deals, ST money etc went into the club's books but all profits made on players would be reinvested in the team, the club and Desmond would have got their money back long before they were due to reinvest after the five year period.
The more impact we make in the CL the more our TV money, sponsorships and merchandise will bring in, plus the calibre of player we could attract would rise.
We are starting to go down the Rangers route of no long term planning, everything has to be for the here and now.
If the board don't trust NL to spend money then it's time NL was moved on, if the board and PL just won't spend it then it is time that they were moved on.}

How much of that 30million, goes on inflated players, managers, coaches wages don't these guys know there is a recession on!.

Surely the players would walk for free at end of three and four year contracts within the 5 year period?
I agree we cannot become second best in Scotland and must deliver CL year on year especially after new SEVCO club turn up. We cannot afford them to sniff CL money whilst we get nothing. It cannot even get close in spl or refs will throw them it.
A mindset of banking on CL money to actually have a chance of getting it means a higher risk financial model. But everyone is trying it. Ffs Donesk spending 160m euro!?! How do they fund that?
Finally, this new scout ex Dundee utd manager was working freelance all summer for us? What input did he have on Pukki, balde and boerigter then?

The club's expenditure has grown with our added income. The risk is we become decadent then fail to get into Europe, lose £18m income and end in dire straights.
I know u don't want to hear it but £500k a year extra to cover the fashionable living wage idea, when no other club does it, wouldn't help at all. I'm also sure we're servicing/ paying off historic debt.
SEVCO will arrive and all they need is £15m in players, five £3m guys to be beating us to Europe. You know it and I know it.
I'd like to see somebody stick £10m into Livingston to beat SEVCO in the Championship and keep them there.

@4 . If Lawell and his cronies had their way they would pump money into Sevco just to get them back into the top league . The succulent lamb campaign has already started and it will get stronger . If Hearts go down and for talking sake say Killie get beat in a playoff and go down too that would be two SPFL teams going down to the championship . With Sevco and say Dunfermline coming up I could see the likes of that tit Brown preferring to stay in the championship . I could be wrong but the Dundee results should be interesting in the coming months . TV will cover just as many Championship games as SPFL games because outside Celtic, Aberdeen, Dundee Utd and Hibs there's no interest as you can see by the crowds . How much is Lawell going to charge next season for STs when he is closing more sections weekly . I fear the atmosphere and crowd today will be like a ghost town and will get worse if the team doesn't perform . DH

We could loan some good guys down to a championship team next year to make it interesting for SEVCO.

Ed do you know if we got all the transfer money for Wanyama, Hooper and Wilson upfront or are we still owed portions of it.

{Ed007's Note - There will still be money owed, most transfer fees are paid over the duration of the player's contract. Or if they are sold on the balance must be paid in full.}

Agree with dd throwing his money in cause I saw today Toronto fc is going to by defo for 30mill and they have hardly any fans now and I think how can this be. How can they buy defo when they don't have close to what Celtic make, that hurts seeing that.
Ed with the cl money going up in 2015, think the board will maybe only make a push then to invest in the players then? Since a lot more money for group stage.

{Ed007's Note - No I don't expect the board to invest any serious money in the team.}

Ffs Ed you've changed your tune. Two years of telling us don't want a sugar daddy look at SDM at RFC and the Lithuanian at hearts. Now your saying sugar daddy should stump up £20m of own money. Whatever happened to mantra of living within means? No sugar daddy or bank debt. You've tore people holes in this site who previously said Desmond should stump up. And if it's a case of paying him back well there's banks and ticketus for that now you're venturing into loans. To survive clubs must spend what they bring in and live there at that level. Go support Aberdeen, Hibs, Dundee utd for a few years to get used to the concept. We're already spoiled as Celtic fans here in Scotland with more than our fair share of success due to good money above everyone else. Get used to living with euro teams having much more than us.

{Ed007's Note - At no point did I mention a loan or putting the club into unmanageable debt. If we live within our mean there should be money there to invest in our very average team, if there is no money to invest then PL needs to explain why and Dermot Desmond needs to step up to the plate and invest some, what's wrong with saying that?
The board's penny-pinching has seriously let the fans down this season. One minute they are bragging about how healthy our finances are but then start pleading poverty when people question their spending on mediocre players and players the manager doesn't even want in the first place.
Why do you think spending some money on quality players that will virtually guarantee CL football season after season will put us in any sort of financial difficulties? That's just a nonsense.
We spent £10 million during the summer on 6 players, why not just spend that £10m on 2 quality players, van Dijk and Finnbogason and one youngster like Biton?
That would have replaced Wilson and Hooper and although Wanyama was quality we really don't need any more CMs, what we do need is an CAM which we should be able to spend some serious money on this coming summer, buying 2/3 quality players every summer should be our aim along with replacing any players who leave.
I'm fed up saying it, you get what you pay for and sometimes you just have to bite the bullet and pay the going rate for quality players.
If we had done that I have no doubts that we would still have some form of European football in the new year, even dropping down to the EL would be seen as a success considering the group we drew.
Peter Lawwell is not spending the money wisely and is doing deals for players who aren't any better than what we have in the youth set-up so I don't think it is too much to ask that our billionaire major shareholder and his friends on the board put some money down and INVEST it in the team.
All this nonsense about ending up like Rangers or Hearts is just scaremongering.
With 2 years ST money, 2 CL campaigns money and the fees for Hooper, Wanyama and Wilson all coming in (none of those transfer fees were included in this year's accounts) I think the fans deserve a bit better than what they are getting.
CFC can afford to buy quality players to improve the team and still live within their means. The question should be why don't they?}

CFC board should be viewed as a government. They have their people not the peeple but their people if you know what I mean:). They are adoring, they love the governors and the ministers. They especially love the minister of finance. Now all the citizens sorry subjects can talk about selling on clauses fees and money.
Just everyone take a breath. let's stop getting sucked into all this nonsense. let's just admire the game. Beautiful football played by young men trying their hearts out to win a game honourably with real fair play and with decency. Och how far we have fallen. What would Brother Walfrid make of all of this. Sopotcelt.