Celtic Banter Archive June 12 2012

12 Jun 2012 23:43:05
Ed007...maybe you can answer this, why will Charles Green be able to 'buy' the clubs assests for £5.5million ? I don't understand that part at all. Now i'm no property expert but even i can see Ibrox, the car park & Murray Park are worth a tad than that ? Mrs E {Ed007's Note - If I knew that Mrs I would be sitting in Monaco with you and your Wee Pat!!.}

Wee Pat in Monaco...ooffft :-).

I truly don't understand that part though, maybe more will come out of it this week.. Mrs E

If you could buy IT for 5.5m and that was it, there would be more than green involved. IT's toxic and hmrc have blown the plan. The average house price in britain is 150k. IT's assets are worth 36 average houses. I live at no. 92. Doesnt quite add up does it ?

Mrs E - in terms of establishing a value for the property assets you are essentially valuing them on the basis of receiving offers in a fire sale, without the benefit of planning permission for development.

The book value as shown in Rangers accounts is irrelevant.

The difficulty in getting a decent value for Ibrox is that at present it really only does have one use, and that is as a football stadium for Rangers. I know there are some lesser income steams also but they are not relevant.

Without Rangers playing at Ibrox it does not have any real commercial value. As such, there are only really two types of party that will be interested (1) the owners of the newco and (2) an investor who would buy the asset as an investment and then lease it to the newco.

The problem with (2) is that Ibrox would need several million refurbishment costs spent on it to be able to lease it out. There is also the risk that Rangers may not reform or that they do referom and plunge into administration / liquidation again. An investor will look for their tenant to have a good rating, the best being AAA. Newco Rangers will not even have a rating and are a huge risk as a tenant. Not very attractive to an investor.

The longer term development opportunities are hard to see in terms of getting a decent land, construction or investment value. Despite the jokes about supermarkets, there is one already close by. It is not a good location for the office market, residential in this area would have very low land values, and David Murray's previous attempts at a leisure investment haven't worked.

The same development criteria would apply to the Albion.

The same would be said of Murray Park, in that if Rangers cease to trade who would want to own or lease it. There may be someone out there but it is too risky for an investor, especially as there are safer less risky oportunites out there.

The development potential of Murray Park would only really be for residential with perhaps a small retail offering.

However, any development potential would likely be 10 - 15 years away. A developer submitting a planning application would certainly have it refused. It would be seen as a strategic opportunity which has to be promoted through the Local Development Plan and Strategic Plans, making it a 10 - 15 year opportunity. Again, investors will not shell out millions, only for their money to sit there for years and maybe never get planning.

I also think that any investor would be put off by owning the property assests and leasing them to Rangers. There could be a lot of ill feeling from Rangers supporters towards the investor.

In short, the property assets are worth what someone is willing to pay for them and the likelihood is that it will be the people who form the Newco who buy the assets.

If Green is offering £5.5m and no-one tops this offer, then that is what the property assets are worth and that is what the liquidators will sell for.

The only way the liquidators will get a higher price is if someone tops Green's offer.

Having said all that, don't be surprised if Green walks away. He can wriggle out of the deal quite easily.

K-Dot.

Thank you K-Dot..I had a wee look last night further (being a nosey woman lol) but could only really see the Administrators & Charles Green would have to move quickly to transfer the assets just incase a better offer did come in. Obviously the Administrators are still acting in the best interests of the creditors.

Seen this is on HMRC's website as a reason for rejecting a CVA:- HMRC states than among some of the ‘exceptional reasons’ it would reject a CVA is that a company has ‘funded their business or lifestyle by consistently withholding Crown monies’ such as tax. Surely the arrogance was not that bad they assumed by waving a flag and singing the British National Anthem, they wouldn't have to pay. More evidence this club was killed by sheer arrogance and greed ~ Mrs E

12 Jun 2012 23:18:30
where's that threadbare ostrich??
when i posted the other week that hmrc would not accept the cva, he was giving it the old 'everyone's a tax expert all of a sudden' rubbish....well, who's been proven right little teddy? lol!

enjoy your wee day trips to stranraer and brechin

ps Ed, i heard i had a liquidiser to collect?


taxo {Ed007's Note - As soon as the engagement party date is through mate.}

Aiming for 12th July...hope mr dot's ok with that.

threadbare....you can bring the champagne....we're all out :D


taxo

Couldnt agree more taco mate! He had a go at me last week too! Problem being I know a lot more about tax issues than him! Another rangers fan who continues to ignore his clubs shocking actions! Not paying the Scottish ambulance services, policing for there games, paper shops, face painters, charities! Get them down to the 3rd division till they get there house in order!

Byars38625

Byars38625

Funny how "Mr Green Fingers" has disappeared also.

Jungle Bhoy.

It's in the diary taco.

K-Dot. xxx

12 Jun 2012 21:50:08
ola tiovonen
marek suchy

2 players who could do a great job
for us and i dont think would break
the bank both 24/25 and international
class wot do u think ed

green hornet

12 Jun 2012 21:10:34
Hi Ed
I've been watching this situation with the shame unfold and a curious thought keeps popping up in my thoughts, if the shame "Newco" agrees to certain sanctions to be allowed to rejoin the SPL could the other members of the SPL use this to try and get a share of home gates? You any ideas on this mate?
I would be livid if I'm honest, I don't mind splitting the SPL money and even the T.V money because its not worth a great deal in the overall scheme of things but I don't see why the club should have to go splitting home gates with anyone!
HH
pfb79 {Ed007's Note - There is no league in the world that shares gate money 50/50 that I know of. I can't see the SPL being the first, other teams around Europe would love a ruling like that as well. Why should any team have a claim like that on another club's money, it's not CFC's fault they can't get higher gates.}

12 Jun 2012 21:20:36
Well what a complete surprise, Radio Snyde and Dj's Real Rangers Radio had special programmes tonight ..... I wonder why? certain people must be worried about there jobs, every caller that came on saying we could survive without Rangers got shot down again the question being .... I wonder why? We all know the answer to this don't we fellow football fans.
3rd Div the only way to go no matter what the West coast of Scotland Media would like you to think (ps I would like to know if Radio Snyde's panel got double time tonight haha)

Bigbr

Sorry mate dont agree with you i was glad clyde put a programme on because even when rangers fans come on saying everyone else to blame it just shows them up for the ignorant people that they are ps read alex thomsons blog its priceless. Tulip

Rangers fans aren't responsible for the fiasco. {Ed007's Note - Turning your back on your club now? Tut tut. See CFC supporters are noted for being 'faithful through and through'. Have a wee jig to this to keep you going, if you see Sammy from the BBC doc tell him I said 'HA! HA!'

Celt*c fans being faithfull through and though aye? where were u's when yous whent into admin? and what about when you couldnt fill half your stadium 2/3 years ago?

When wee fergus took over there was thousands of us outside celtic park. and i can remember when rangers had gates of less than 10,000..bb

13 Jun 2012 21:25:44
Average attendances
2008/2009 Celtic 57671
Rangers 49534

2009/2010 Rangers 47564
Celtic 45582

2010/2011 Celtic 48968
Rangers 45305

2011/2012
Celtic 50904
Rangers 46324

I dont see anywhere where in those us struggling to half fill a 60000 seater stadium.

If you look at the stats over the last 15 years on
http://www.scotprem.com/content/default.asp?page=home_statistics
you will see the truth.

CeltStu

12 Jun 2012 20:59:20
Syphilis : 1918. Gonnorreah : 1944 . Polio : 1944 . Rangers FC : 2012 : . They find a cure for every disease eventually ........DH

12 Jun 2012 20:40:46
Charlie and the Bhoys are playing at McGunnigals in Coatbridge on Saturday night, it's free entry so try n get along cause it will be a great night!
Conor67

They've called it the liquidation party lol
Conor67

12 Jun 2012 20:34:32
Has anyone asked the clubs in the third division, if they want,the loyal liqudators,playing in that division

Obiously they want rangers in their think of the money they will get!

12 Jun 2012 19:45:34
EXCLUSIVE: Rangers boss Ally McCoist has been told by police his phone was hacked by the News of the World how did they
know? easy they left £10 credit :-)
Happyday120612

All they heard was greetin' when they tapped it today.

12 Jun 2012 19:52:33
Oh no I've just heard the news , how could they make this deciscion , all the poor people this will affect , all the past history , traditions , all the happy memories and past glories , all the happiness and pride people felt . Famous in Glasgow , Scotland and round the world . Well it's never going to be the same again without them ! WHY OH WHY .................Did they demolish the Red Road Flats ."........DH

Lmfao.artybhoy

Good one DH.

Jungle Bhoy.

12 Jun 2012 19:38:24
Just wondering if anyone could clear something up for me. (apologies for bringing up the current buns again).

How, by law, can Green buy the assets of a liquidated company and start it up again when they are owed so much money?

Surely Ibrox and Murray Park are worth more than the £5.5m he is going to pay and so surely should be put on the open market and sold to the highest bidder so some of the creditors can reclaim some of what they are owed?

I think they have been pushing for liquidation all along and now there will be nobody to punish for the years of cheating. Overcoming the transfer embargo would have led to expulsion or suspension, and they would have had the same outcome.

Could also explain why the administrators have taken so long to sort things out.

All smells a bit fishy to me.

Thoughts?

Mikey Bhoy Mk II

12 Jun 2012 19:18:38
D+p sayin rangers history stays? Surely that can't be the case ed? The clubs dies so everything should die with it!

12 Jun 2012 19:10:23
Why not try the new Ibrox smoothie : take 45'000 bitter oranges a equal amount of sour grapes, for texture add a bag of cold chips from disgruntled shoulders,put in a blender then LIQUIDATE ,serve with heaps of jelly and ice cream or some sour plums ,mmmmm Delicious........DH

12 Jun 2012 18:49:41
Is this day now called the glorious 12 th of june ................the battle of the coin?

Miko

Iwas thinking about this earlier wishing it would be july which is the bigday for them but it is also international eat your jello day (honestly) which would have been simply splendid.

But i would personally call it the battle of broomloan.. i think that has a better ring to it.

Evinguu

12 Jun 2012 18:42:13
54 - HMRC = 0

Miko

12 Jun 2012 18:27:01
They say that revenge is best served cold, is that why all us Tims are having ICE CREAM hail hail Timalloy

12 Jun 2012 18:16:31
rangers football club more records than any other team in the world. first o/f team to go into admin.. first o/f team to be liquidated.. first o/f team to be relegated. only team in world football history to have commited so many crimes and feel no remorse.. come on guys lots have come on here and said yes , we should be punished but not one has said SORRY !...BB

12 Jun 2012 17:57:21
Had SSN on before the Euro's KO and guys like Goram, Alex Rae and Gordon Smith are there with the usual bare-faced affrontary and arrogance which is a major factor in why there is little sympathy outwith Rangers for their plight.
Apparently HMRC have wrongly persecuted them, Scotland needs them and they will be voted back into the SPL as that's the end of it.
Is there nobody who was responsible for the demise of their club, who will come out, admit their wrong-doing and rule-breaking and mutter an apology from behind the Blue Room door?
Minty, Walter (Mitty), Ogilvie, anybody want to take the floor and show your fans and ambassadors on Sly how to behave with dignity/humility?
Naaaah. Didn't think so - even Jim Whyte has pulled a 'Sicky' or was it compassionate leave?

JJ

12 Jun 2012 17:45:21
could some 1 help me here if and when rangers form a newco does there history go aswell been told it can b transferd to the newco surely not

READ EARLIER POSTS answer is no if they lose their debt they lose their history..bb

No. Rangers football club will shortly cease to exist. This gives the sfa a golden opportunity to strip titles won by cheating. Lets see If their up to it. Rangers are dead, time for the autopsy.

12 Jun 2012 17:23:59
Alex Thomson's latest blog.

Today’s the day the taxman, in the shape of HMRC, said not only will he not be walking away from Rangers, but that they, the HMRC, “are the people”. And the people not only want their money back from this catastrophically mismanaged “football club”, but now they want to come after the men who reduced the once proud name of Ibrox to a pathetic byword for toxic governance.

And that is the real story.

It is not often that you are on holiday and find your plans are interrupted by the Voice of the Taxman, and it is hardly ever anything but bad news, I would imagine. But I have to report barely concealed joy and enthusiasm from my contact in HMRC who once memorably told me, referring to Rangers Football Club: “Remember our Eleventh Commandment, Alex – Thou Shalt Not Get Away With It.”

Not the kind of language HMRC regularly employs, but Rangers was always going to be big for them. Very big. An example. A test case. A litmus test. Take your image, but you get their drift.

So now it is all about a proper investigation. Bluntly, a CVA (company voluntary arrangement) would have allowed far too much to be simply swept under the carpet. Years of evidence, allegations, arguably an entire Ibrox culture of funny money and living beyond everyone’s means, can, as the HMRC put it this morning “now be properly investigated – and let me say there is no way we could have done that under any proposed CVA deal”.

When the CVA was proposed down at Portsmouth FC, the taxman was promised all kinds of phone number figures from any amount of whacky offshore accounts etc and guess what? Yes – they got a fraction of nowt out of it, in the end.

They were not minded at all to go down the same route this time.

In short, this is a warrant for the proper, detailed, lengthy and forensic investigation of just what David Murray, and to some extent Craig Whyte, were doing at Rangers and – yes – all those men who walked away from the club they professed to cherish and love and have run from any serious kind of questions ever since in the celebrated style of Glasgow football, largely unencumbered by any pursuit and awkward questions from the compliant press of that city who cannot handle the idea that Rangers was after so many years too corrupted to survive liquidation.

Well, now it is time to get used to the truth and reality so widely predicted and investigated online and by those notable journalists in broadcasting and papers around Glasgow who bucked the trend. They can all hold their heads high today after all the years of abuse.

The succulent lamb just went off. The stench will hang around Rangers for years to come.

So a CVL (creditors’ voluntary liquidation) is, the HMRC believes, a way of taking the gloves off, and getting to grips with, the former directors which a company voluntary arrangement (CVA) could never have done, in their view.

Getting away with it just became very, very much more difficult for all the directors involved with Rangers over the past 15 years or so, and nobody – least of all Rangers fans – can possibly do anything but welcome that fact, whatever it means for the club.

Today HMRC said this: “A CVL is the statutory process whereby a company’s assets are realised by an insolvency practitioner (the liquidator – BDO in this case it seems) and paid out to its creditors. If there is not enough to pay creditors in full after the costs of the liquidation, they will receive only a proportion of their claims. The directors and employees of the company play no part in the liquidation.”

Moreover, the actions across recent months of administrators Duff & Phelps might well now come under scrutiny. Given some of the more bizarre twists and turns, it would be astonishing if they did not.

The HMRC again: “Liquidators are required by regulatory best practice to undertake a certain minimum level of investigation into the actions of the directors of the company in the run up to its liquidation. These investigations may reveal legal actions which only liquidators can take whereby directors can be ordered by the court to compensate the company in respect of any wrongdoings they may have committed during the pre-liquidation period. If the liquidator considers it economic to pursue such actions he will do so. ”

Not only that. There are wide powers to investigate and take actions against directors including –

- Wrongful trading: directors can be ordered to make a payment to the company if they continue incurring debt at a time they should reasonably have known the company could not avoid going into liquidation.

- Transaction at an undervalue: where a director has caused an asset to be transferred to a connected party for less than its true value at a time when the company was insolvent, the asset can be transferred back to the company or the person benefitting can be ordered to compensate the company. An example would be a director buying his own company car for £1.

- Preference: where a director has paid someone with the intention of making them better off in the event of a liquidation than they would otherwise have been then they can be ordered to pay compensation to the company. An example would be a director causing the company to pay a debt that he had personally guaranteed so he would not have to meet that debt himself when the company goes into liquidation.

- Misfeasance: this covers a wide variety of breaches of duty by directors. Duties of directors are set out in the companies act and include such matters as putting the company’s interests first, and not taking account of the director’s personal interests.

And just to top it off, under the liquidation the liquidators also now have all kinds of powers to get information from directors and others with inside knowledge of the football club, and they can use the courts to do it if they have to.

Or to put it another way, Rangers directors of the recent past can run from the questions, if they like – but hiding would be futile.

So the HMRC are pretty much where they want to be in all this. And anyone who believes that if you try to thwart the taxman, they should come after you, will no doubt agree.

Questions therefore for several Scottish MSPs and First Minister Alex Salmond to answer about their blatant political interference with the HMRC – several MSPs blatantly and publicly attempting to pressure the taxman away from any liquidation. I know from sources within HMRC that basically all they managed to achieve was to antagonise the taxman who simply wanted everyone to play by the rules and for there to be no special case, no exceptions and no special pleadings.

At the time when Channel 4 News dared question whether or not their actions might not be counter-productive, given that Holyrood has no powers over HMRC, the hue and cry from said MSPs and Mr Salmond’s minders was long and loud. I wonder if they are re-examining their actions today?

And then there’s the football side of things, for Rangers did also masquerade as a football club during the long years of apparently being a casino. In immediate terms -

1. Rangers will be banned from European competition for three years.

2. Most of their players can and will leave in the coming weeks often – many having no doubt had enough of doing their bit on wage cuts of up to 75 per cent.

3. The club still faces the Big Tax Case tribunal decision laughingly due “soon after Easter”, and on that the HMRC still have no news, this could see Rangers face a further tax bill of up to £70m in dues and penalties.

4. The Scottish Premier League will soon run out of excuses to not report on its investigation into alleged wrongful player registration which, if the club is found guilty as charged, could see the club losing much of its silverware won over the past decade or so.t

5. The liquidation makes it even more difficult for both the Scottish Premier League and its appeal body the Scottish Football Association to readmit and license Rangers to play in the Scottish Premier League.

6. Despite the Green consortium’s lofty statements about buying the club’s assets, there is no guarantee that they will in fact be bought up as a job lot. There is no guarantee about simply playing on at Ibrox. There are, as things stand, few guarantees in terms of the asset sale at all.

It is hard to see any way forward with any kind of probity except starting a clean sheet at the foot of the Third Division in Scotland and playing their way back, thereby sending a message across the sporting world, at last, that some things matter more than money – even in football.

And that is what many Rangers fans – for so long ignored in all this and the people most badly sold down the river by those who “managed” their club – want to see happen. To that extent they are the people, the people who matter, and, unlike all their directors, they did not walk away and they will not.

Jungle Bhoy.

12 Jun 2012 17:09:43
Just seen Andy Goram-less on sly sports news and what a total idiot he is, saying be careful what we wish for and that the SPL is finished without Rankers. Don't talk s**t. They did this to themselves and they deserve it.

Heard him talking about "bitter" Celtic fans.

If there something wrong with people connected to Rangers in that they just don't know how to do themselves any favours.

K-Dot.

12 Jun 2012 17:05:26
ed wat do u think about the people on the stv live blog saying tht rangers will keep all there trophies

If the SPL approve a transfer of share to admit a New Rangers then yes, the league titles would transfer over. The same applies to other trophies if the SFA membership is approved.

However, it is worth bearing in mind that the investigation into dual contracts is still ongoing and the SPL have said that stripping titles is a possible sanction. {Ed007's Note - Charles Green has stated that the loss of the CVA agreement would end Rangers' history and tradition. Ask them about that.}

12 Jun 2012 16:28:54
After all that has happened today. We must now begin planning for the future.....

Who's organising the funeral ??

Evinguu

I'll bring the vodka jelly for the wake ~ Mrs E

Like it Mrs E,

could the rest of the menu not be an entirely liquid menu? in honour of the fallen?

Evinguu

12 Jun 2012 16:24:27
Official statement from HMRC:

WE DON'T DO WALKING AWAY.

K-Dot.

12 Jun 2012 16:18:21
Rangers History will read Last owners - Green and Whyte . Last signing Cellik . If Carlsberg could do histories.........DH

12 Jun 2012 15:53:03
Are we all agreed, we should stop now Time of death.................

12 Jun 2012 15:46:07
So all the remorseless shame want to go to the 3rd div and hope the SPL will suffer without them. And then by some magic formula (in about a MINIMUM of 3 years) they will strive to achieve a return to the SPL that they hope will have died without them?? Great plan, so forward thinking.

12 Jun 2012 15:36:30
They're finished . It's all over . No more Rangers

I would like to pass on my sincere condolences to the decent bears (Das Shadow , craig + babybear ) , however , to the huge majority of orcs and their lambeg loyalties and unionists bleatings , i say ........

Get it right roon yeez

jimi88

12 Jun 2012 15:27:35
Ed been thinking.. When liquidation goes through they have no history to take forward. Now What happens to the stars on all the new shirts they have just released? There are so many wee things like this still to crop up and major things like the floating charge and image rights etc. Maybe this was what whyte meant by having a warchest... hes got a chest full of all the things a rangers newco will need to keep a similar identity to the deed club.


Evinguu {Ed007's Note - Maybe that is why the stars are hidden......

Ahhh they knew!... ok i wont go off on one like i did last night about knowing lol.

Now if this isnt reason for the tabloids getting the ol photoshopped cracked crests out tomorrow i dont know what is!

Evinguu

12 Jun 2012 15:21:15
I hope all those who wanted rid of wee Fergus are now appreciating what he did for CFC. Look at the mess on the other side. I am really pleased to see CVA rejected but not for the demise of RFC but to see they can now go after (S)DM, CW and the rest of the crooks. They got Capone for this type of evasion. Maybe we might have a use for some of those old oil rigs now! Ed, do you think any of those reporters who said CFC were paranoid might now issue a statement saying maybe there was just cause? Would be good to also see (as entertaining as it is) the EPL being brought to book for the same stuff which has brought the dark side down. Maybe the SPL is small but it is generally honest and legal

What do we think of bringing the bun net back to unfurl the flag on 1st day of the new season . I'm sure we didn't treat him to well when he did it last time his sound financial outlook has helped us to where we are now and possibly helped rangers to where they are now Gary p {Ed007's Note - As far as I know Fergus McCann is not interested in coming back, he has been asked.}

12 Jun 2012 14:58:00
Hi Ed hope u r well, could u help me out here and tell me does hmrc blocking the cva mean that *anger* will lose there history? Or will that still be intact after this shambles? {Ed007's Note - Their history will always be there, but that is it, history. Zombie Rangers starts as of 2012.}

And that Ed ... makes me smile lol

Evinguu

54 and counting ............. backwards (roll on the dual contracts decision)

K-Dot.

12 Jun 2012 14:41:54
will ex rangers fans start the demolition of ibrox by taking their bricks back? bri67 {Ed007's Note - Well look how upset they got over a broken TV in Manchester, anything is possible.}

12 Jun 2012 14:34:07
would just like to say to the nice gers , my brother a few guys i work with, das shaddow craig+babybear sorry for your pain... pob and tedbear get it right up you..bb

Thanks for the generous sentiment bb.
Just confirmed my thoughts about how lacking in class you and your posts are mate. Take care.See you in a few years.
P.O.B.

You don't know what class is '' see ya '' bb

12 Jun 2012 14:08:27
Well ed, am sure the bunnet will have a wee chuckle when he hears todays news, he saved us an put us on a sound platform to move on while making a profit, which i cant say i agree with but at the same time he never lied to us.

I think once he sold on to DD and he began to bankroll MON big time, it really put murray under great pressure to keep up and the only way he could was through the ebts!! silly man, he should of took it on the chin an accepted we were back on top. Glasgows green and white

1888

12 Jun 2012 14:06:56
Snyde1 score board special tonight at 6 should be a good phone in. Tulip

No doubt keevins will still say its still and always will be rangers but the fact is it is no longer. so dont kid yourselves on the rangers are well dead and buried

12 Jun 2012 14:00:50
Ed - How does this work? Green gets the assets for 5.5 million but BDO are brought in to sell the assets? {Ed007's Note - BDO will run the administration side of liquidation, there is still plenty of paperwork etc to be done.}

Greene does not get the assets for £5million. The liquidators can tear up any agreement.

12 Jun 2012 13:25:25
quick question if rangers do go bust does that mean celtic will now be the most successful domestic team in the world ?

Not until we overtake the old rangers record , but remember 17 of them trophies might still be stripped..bb

17 ? think you should ask your ed for a honest answer. your saying for the (unproven) dual contracts between 2001 and 2011 how many league titles did rangers win? do the maths...mark.

We are talking from 1998 onwards and not just leagues .cups too..bb it's 17

12 Jun 2012 13:32:52
they lose £140m worth of debt. the cost 140 years of history . there is something quite poetic about that justice . £1m a year..bb

12 Jun 2012 13:09:53
It's official rangers are dead!! Jelly & Ice cream anyone?

12 Jun 2012 12:50:12
Now that RFC(IA) are now RFC(IL) they will do anything to curry favour
with other SPL chairmen to get voted back in SPL.
Look out for them offering to vote with gang of ten on restructuring of
voting and also share of home gate receipts. Celtic season ticket holders
will be biggest losers as our money will go to Kilmarnock etc..
I hope SPL vote them out but I do not see it happening.
Also be prepared for MSM campaign telling us all how everybody needs
RFC(IL) Jabba, Keevo and Chico will be preparing their impassioned pleas as we speak.... Timalloy

Hmv, don't have to share their profits with virgin or w h smith , mcdonalds don't have to profit share with burger king or wimpy , so why should we have to profit share with teams less successful than we are.. i think celtic would win this one in court . bb

12 Jun 2012 08:12:42
Cannae believe it 2 days to go and ma freezer chucked it all that ice cream ruined och well jist huv tae huv jelly on its own. Tulip {Ed007's Note - You can eat it today, throw a party!}

12 Jun 2012 12:11:40
Well that's it over the road H.M.R.C. reject c.v.a. as everyone suggested bar the deluded from the other side. BYE BYE RANGERS. maccabhoy

12 Jun 2012 11:52:47
They think it's all over ......... It is now ......DH

12 Jun 2012 11:47:19
it's over cva rejected by hmrc..bb

12 Jun 2012 11:43:22
Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs will reject the company voluntary arrangement proposal made by Rangers' prospective owner Charles Green.

Green's consortium hopes to have its CVA approved by creditors when they meet at Ibrox on Thursday so that the club can exit administration.

But the club needs dominant creditors HMRC and Ticketus to vote in favour to avoid the assets being sold off.

Green will now try to buy the assets and re-form Rangers as a new club.

He said: "The solemn promise I can make to Rangers fans today is that this club will continue as Rangers Football Club and will continue to play at Ibrox Stadium.

"I am hugely disappointed by the decision of HMRC not to support the CVA proposal and that disappointment will be felt acutely by Rangers fans across the world.

"Frankly, I do not see what benefit will be achieved by this decision. My consortium's offer for a CVA amounted to a total of £8.5m.

"Now that we will have to complete the purchase via the formation of a newco, the purchase price and therefore the amount available to creditors will be £5.5m.

"I can understand HMRC deciding that football clubs which do not pay their taxes need to be punished, but by effectively banning Rangers from Europe for three years all that will happen is that there will be less revenue generated by the club and consequently less money paid over to the taxman."

The CVA terms suggest a maximum payout of nine pence for every pound owed but that is a best-case scenario for those awaiting payment.

Rangers entered administration on 14 February and await the outcome of a First Tier Tax tribunal at the Court of Session in Edinburgh over unpaid taxes - the so-called "Big Tax Case".

If that decision goes against the club, it would mean a further bill of anything from £35m to £70m, thereby reducing the pence-in-the-pound deal to close to zero.

The club's total debts to unsecured creditors listed in the CVA was £55m, with HMRC accounting for £21.5m of that sum.

BBC Scotland has learned that administrators Duff & Phelps held a meeting with HMRC on Monday and were told of their decision.

Duff & Phelps say HMRC's decision was based on "its general policy of not agreeing to a CVA where there is strong evidence of non-compliance by a company with its tax liabilities".

They said HMRC had agreed to consider the CVA proposal along with all other options but decided that the club's level of indebtedness made it unacceptable.

The administrators say HMRC would also have rejected the other offers for the club that proposed a CVA.

Administrator Paul Clark added: "HMRC has taken the view that the public interest will be better served with the liquidation of The Rangers Football Club plc as a corporate entity.

"The Club will continue to operate as it has always done but within a new company structure."

The CVA requires the approval of 75% or more in value of the creditors, and more than 50% in value of the members, voting on the resolution.

Under the terms of the deal struck by Green's consortium to buy Rangers, it will now proceed to purchase the business and assets of Rangers for £5.5m.

By doing so, Green will try to form Rangers as a "newco" that will have to seek the approval of the 11 other Scottish Premier League clubs to play in Scotland's top tier.

Green added: "We will be liaising with the football authorities at the earliest opportunity to establish our position regarding the SPL."

*******

...now everybody...Oh, the gers are going bust, the gers are going bust....

(I said Gers so as not to offend people)

TerribleBeauty

12 Jun 2012 11:37:01
So BBC et al reporting the CVA for RAngers is to be rejected by HMRC. Which essentially means the whole thing is rejected.

Does anyone know why Green still thinks he can buy the assets? Surely if CVA is rejected the club is liquidated. HE cannot make an arrangement with the administrators for a deal when the club is liquidated. This has to come through the Liquidators as they have to put assets to an open and public sale?

I was thinking HMRC would vote based on their feelings on the BTC result. As surley it would have made more sense for them to accept the CVA and for the club to be out of Admin before being hit with a big bill from them making them the sole creditors meaning they can then run all the shots. Obviously my feeling was wrong.

Dark days for the bears still.

Evinguu

Does anyone know why Green still thinks he can buy the assets?

Because he's an idiot

12 Jun 2012 07:14:42
I always like to give a player a chance,
but i have my doubts about Lustig
If he had stayed on the post the Ukraineians
don't score He lost us a goal (cant remember
against who) on the few games he played
Toshney played well for Kilmarnock and
needs to progress he could cover Mattews
What about a swap deal Lustig for Caulker
Hanley or Wilson