Celtic Banter Archive December 12 2013

 

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12 Dec 2013 19:18:33
Very disappointed in the result last night, it was atrocious. Not just the defeat, it was the manner of it.

I do not think Neil Lennon is a bad manager, I think he's inexperienced. Managers like Jackie Mac started out at Partick Thistle, Brendan Rodgers at Watford and Reading (although had worked with Jose at Chelsea) - the point I'm making is they did not go straight into manage a Club the size of Celtic with little experience.


I've been very patient with the Board and its great the Club is financially healthy but the fans need some kind of balance on the park. Last season, the Champions League run was great but domestically we were inconsistent and complacent. This season the best Champions League game was a qualifier against Karagandy when we had to overturn a 2 goal deficient and to be honest, it was our own doing that we were 2 goals down going into that match.

Dare I also say with the demise of Rangers, we should have won the treble at least once?

Our squad is packed with International players and financially we are in a different world compared to the rest of the Scottish football, to be out of League Cup already is still something I find difficult to accept.

I think Neil Lennon can develop as a Manager but I would like to see more experience at the Club and more discipline.

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12 Dec 2013 20:02:58
Mrs E must agree with most you say.but you
Also say we're worlds apart from other Scottish teams not disagreeing but were also worlds apart from most champions league teams money wise. What's the difference? A dnt think a Forfar would expect to come to celtic park and leave with anything less than a beating, apart from the odd fluke result same as us away in Europe. Does anybody think a Finbogason would have made any difference to last night(only if we stuck him on our own line ).
Last year we wer punching above our weight, this season we all thought it would be an achievement getting to group stage until we get there. Is it not a case of fans always wanting more. And am not saying that's a bad thing

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@1 are you saying a good striker might not have been the difference against ac & Ajax? Because I find that hard to believe, also nobody expected us to get anything against barca, but did you honestly expect us to humiliated the way we were?

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12 Dec 2013 21:35:28
@2 am pretty sure a never said that.
Before game a posted a thought we would get a beating a went 3 nil, next post somebody thought Barca could do to us what we done to hearts. Barca can do that to teams on occasion with the superstars they have am sure hearts didn't think they would have lost so heavily.

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Mrs E, there is no doubt about it, last night's tactics were what you would expect from a rookie manager. NL ain't that anymore. You are right about the expectations. To be beaten by Morton at home this year was another failure of the whole team including the management and coaches. It makes you wonder what processes they go through to pick teams, set them up and motivate them for some games. Inconsistency has been the downfall of the club since RFC died. Last seasons European run gave me hope and even though we lost good players, the least we should be is hard to beat. Against Barca in the Nou Camp we should be parking the bus! That has worked time and time again and even when we concede so much possession we will still get a chance or two.

Is it complacency overall? It may well be, but from whom? We certainly need to buck up our ideas as it feels like the paying supporters are being short changed by the club.

Bankie Bhoy

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I think the majority of the blame for last nights performance must be Neil lennons, he picked the wrong team, he should play a settled team, that's playing well, but he changed it for his whatever reasons, and don't give me that barcelona are so good, Celtic were so bad they would have made anyone look good, MoN and strachan were the same, they would change the team just to bring caldwell back as the holding midfielder, am thankful that's he's out injured or Strachan would have him in the scotland team, am just hopeful that NL learns from this and develops a good team rather than an adeguate squad.

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12 Dec 2013 22:20:43
He's in a no win situation, yes we could have parked the bus then fans would have moaned there wasn't anything to play for we should have been more attacking.

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He did'nt need to park the bus, he should learn from jock stein, the best form of defence is attack, barca are weak in defence, they don't like people coming at them, he should have unleashed the hearts motherwell teams on them, sure they might still have got beat but I would'nt be too sure.

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Monkeybhoy - Fair point. I think all Celtic managers are in a no win situation, however, NL surely must be looking at the bigger picture. His approach to last nights match was flawed both tactically and in team selection.

NL consistently talks about the CL being a selling point for bringing players in. To be humped like that last night and be turned over 3-0 at home by the last two Italian teams we played is hardly showing us up in a good light. Will better quality players be attracted by that performance? Doubt it. A defeat like that last night undoes the good work of previous seasons and affects the confidence of everyone associated with the club when it comes to europe. Surely that's a good enough reason to park the bus.

Bankie Bhoy

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@MB, yeah I agree we are way behind many Clubs in Europe financially which I can cope with but there's no excuse for the domestic performances.

Look at the performances at Hampden - Kilmarnock, Hearts and St Mirren. Then Morton at Celtic Park?

Bankie Bhoy - I've always been positive about Neil Lennon but he was the cheap option for the Board. I do think he will develop and could learn under a more experienced Coach/Manager.

Matthews - out for 2 months and starts in the Nou Camp against Barca

Pukki - lacking confidence but seemed to be getting a wee bit back, destroyed again

Ambrose - no idea what he was doing

Midfield - Non existent, on holiday

Samaras - played for the last 5 mins

Manager - could not get his players motivated to play in a Champions League match?

The complacency in domestic games is now inexcusable and totally out of order from the Club. Neil Lennon had last season to sort it out and hasn't! Buck stops with the Manager.

The double this season is now a must.

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13 Dec 2013 09:23:17
@7 unleash the hearts and Motherwell teams lol calm yourself down we beat a couple of SPFL sides lol. In ma opinion to go all out attack like the lions against one of the best sides in the world chances are it would have been 15, we don't have good enough players for that Stein did.
Mrs E Complacency in they games a would say is more down to the players than the manager the teams and tactics picked should have won those games.
Tactics and team picked against Barca back fired big time maybe Thought nothing really to play for rest a couple and give others some game time. Most definitely the wrong place to do so lol

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12 Dec 2013 18:24:52
can't believe why you want to get rid of samaras and boerrigter. boerrigter isn't long here yet, injury prone but looks like a good player and might not be injured anymore and samaras is probably our best player on european nights and is so important to us.

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Samaras so important too us .!i know Barcelona are way above what we play week in week out but Celtic have been playing some great football in recent weeks without the above mentioned . Sorry but I would get rid ASAP . He has a decent game once in a blue moon and I feel Celtic play better football without him .Hail Hail .Vinciebhoy

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12 Dec 2013 16:04:34
Considering Bangura is back in January (not the saviour by any means) and cannot be any worse than Pukki or Balde, I wouldn't mind seeing both loaned out to SPL sides to see how they actually cope playing week in, week out!? Rogic is another one that I am still hopeful of but needs game time. For the record I realise Bangura is pish but so are they 2 and they could suprise with some constant first team action!? Any thoughts?

Tompo88

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Sorry mate but I still rate Pukki. Zero to work with v Barca and beside the right player he will do a job. He makes clever runs to create space but needs a player to slip him in.

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He needs someone to knock him out! Or wake him up!

Hail Hail

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I think Pukki is more of an old-fashioned inside forward and needs to be played with an out-and-out striker to benefit them both . He's definitely a grafter .

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At the end of the day Pukki has looked like a poor man's Stokes.

HamiltonBhoy

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I agree with GJ, I rate Pukki. I definitely think he has something about him that makes me think he can be a good player for us. He is getting loads of stick for last night but Ronaldo would have looked mince last night with the service he got. I would keep him and Stokes and get rid of all our other strikers, Sammy included

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13 Dec 2013 03:09:03
Firstly I totally understand why pukki is being criticised but it is not totally his fault. the service as I have mentioned weeks ago is non existent hence why no striker has scored apart from motherwell. pukki makes great runs but never picked out!

also how can anyone criticise balde? the stupid people who want something to complain about will say he's played 12 games or whatever but 10 mins at end of a game where everyone just keeps possesion doesn't count so balde does need a run of games. I don't understand why we don't try pukki and balde up front as I feel pukki and stokes are very similar

bangura was the same. 16 "games" or whatever and no goals. any surprise there considering. although he did start a few more and missed a sitter I think at swinecastle he was great against us and has been the only player to cause vvd real problems so far this season. I say we give him another shot

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Did you see Pukki's "attempt" at passing the ball to Samaras in the first half the other night? He had about 10 yards round about him to pass the ball about 15-20 yards, and put it about 6ft away from Sammy out for a throw in! If he can't do the basics like pass, then he's not going to be much more than a dud.

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12 Dec 2013 15:39:35
I've went through a lot of emotions since last night, i've never witnessed us taken apart like that before and hopefully will never do so again - I think at 6-0 we were genuinely lucky they messed up a couple of chances as very quickly it could have been 7 or 8 then all of a sudden we're looking at our worst ever defeat.

That said, with the dust settling i've calmed down a bit. Barca do this to teams on occasion - and I truly believe neymar would have scored a hat trick against any team in the world last night.

What infuriated me the most was the lack of organisation, discipline, drive and determination right across the team. a lot of players hid last night and lennons admission of them being "quiet" before the game is worrying. he is the manager and the buck must stop with him, he took the plaudits last year and must carry the can this year. even 4 and 5 nil up barca's players were still pressing, in our faces, first to every ball, winning every 50-50. in short they wanted it more. I can forgive being outclassed by better players but I can't forgive not working as hard as our opponents, this should be the minimum requirement from a celtic player.

players like ledley, ambrose, boerigter, pukki, brown need to have a look at themselves after last night. Sami too (save the last 10 minutes) and matthews (was really poor but I accept hasn't played much recently). all of this however must come back to the manager - he picked the team, he should have them motivated. Last year we had the measure of barca, yes we still got beat in the nou camp but we had a clear plan and tactics of what we were trying to do, last night I couldn't fathom what our gameplan was. Even the poorest teams in the world can avoid such heavy defeats with a bit of organisation and discipline - we had neither of these attributes last night.

The club has to make a statement, this is the first time in 30 years as a fan I have felt this let down by a celtic team

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Good points. After the last two games we were entitled to think we might play a pressing and possession game.Why Lenny never went with the form players is a mystery and to throw Matthews in at this level after time out was madness.

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12 Dec 2013 14:18:37
hi ed could you post for discussion

will we eve see a smaller club win the cl (should be renamed as not all clubs are champions) again as the last 16 is more or less the same clubs and countries as usual due to the seeding system in place.

even Shaktar and juve benfica porto knocked out and look at their spend on wages/transfers.

this year was just a tough group although I do not think that any from our group would win the cl

we never carried the luck we did last year and our discipline let us down red cards etc.

generally our touch and control of the ball was poor along with bad decision making and thought when in possession and some weird team selections and tactics did not help

we should be competing better though but I noticed that all other teams looked fitter and stronger guess they o not go drinking and partying as much as it seems still to be a culture here think this is also why younger players are lost to clubs in scotland

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We need to look at the style of football played ajax are similar to us
in cash spend and resources yet they trust there youth and as johan cryff says ajax will never win the cl again but they accept that and to get out the group is a bonus

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I put my own post up but I echo a lot of what you say. we didn't compete in the group, our players weren't as fit, fast, hungry, determined or as disciplined as any of the opposition we faced. I can take getting beat, and even outclassed by better players but I can't take other teams working harder than us.

As for the money and big teams/wee teams debate. I don't buy into that much, its an excuse for nights like last night. With proper tactics and "up for it" players even the worst teams in the world can put up a fight and avoid heavy defeats simply with organisation and discipline - last night we had neither.

It wasn't money that made barcas players chase and press us even at 5-0 and 6-0 up, it was hunger and determination. this makes me sick that our players can't show the ssame commitment. Look back at the game and see how hard alexis and neymar worked all night, they are outstanding professionals.

As for the money side of it, we have a higher wage bill, a higher turnover, and a higher average attendance than ajax, yet they were so close to going through last night (from not as tough a group as people are making out). Basel, porto, nicosia have proved in the last 2/3 years that "smaller" teams can get to the last 8 - at this stage anything is possible. If you ride your luck and take your chances anything can happen in cup competitions - look at Greece in 2004, Denmark in 92 etc.

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Ever since the CL became 'fixed' by the corruption of major TV money the tournament became predictably staged and de-valued with 'top-four' clubs allowed to compete.
Now the top few clubs will always be guaranteed a passage to the later stages as well as a never ending supply of even more cash to keep buying the worlds top players.
It is up to the rest to fight for the scraps and in our case at Celtic it sadly seems that qualification for the group stage is our be all and end all.
I now consider myself very fortunate to have seen Lisbon final when I was 11 and the Feyenoord game three years later as I don't think I will see Celtic in another in my lifetime.
Even Seville seems a distant memory with the current financial restraints at the club and the much lower standard of players we are signing.

JJ

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Man United, R. Madrid, PSG, Bayern, Chelsea, Dortmund, Atletico, Barcelona, Leverkusen, Galatasaray, Olympiacos, Man City, Schalke, Arsenal, Zenit, Milan = 4 from England, 4 from Germany, 3 from Spain. So 11 of the Last 16 are made up from 3 countries? The only way there's a chance for "smaller" teams to win the competition is if they change it to a CHAMPIONS only tournament. The winner of each 54 UEFA associations' top league enters the Champions League which still has qualifiying rounds to a lesser extent, league format + knockouts. That's obviously cutting it down from the 76 teams from 52 (of 54) associations, and it's not as big a draw as some ties would be far from glamorous. But let's be honest, that's the only way it's going to be fairer and isn't misselling the name!

HamiltonBhoy

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12 Dec 2013 13:23:28
Having taken my time to post after last night here is my humble opinions.
With such a thumping, at least the board must now realise the team needs serious strengthening, we have not fully replaced Hooper, Wanyama or even Wilson. It will take investment of about £10m to bring in 3 players of equal quality, will the board spend that much?
On Samaras and Ledley, if they both sign pre contracts with other clubs then DO NOT play them again this season, we are building for next year's CL qualifiers so must go with committed players. We now need Balde, Boerighter, Pukki, Biton, the new Icelandic player and young Ajacic to be given more playing time to get them bedded in for our European games.
As for our manager he must look to some of his decisions this year in Europe and take his share of the responsibility.
We Celtic fans will not stop supporting the team because of a bad result, but the board must now back us and the team with some hard cash.
I would hope to see at least 2 new signings come in January, hopefully a proven goalscorer, Ings?
and a creative midfielder. Timalloy

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12 Dec 2013 15:23:15
The board spent 10 m in the summer

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Agreed. As fans our frustration is not solely connected to the result at the Nou Camp. That game was just the culmination of the long standing problems that have been hanging over us all season. Only the most foolish of fans would have given us a chance in this Champions League campaign, no matter what group we would have ended up in. We simply can't compete with the big clubs.
However we can't blame it all on the fact that quality players won't come to Celtic. There is a degree of truth in that but we should be looking for young and hungry players who would be delighted to come. Football is not all about buying ready made top quality players, it's also about getting players with the right attitude who are prepared to come and fight for the right to play at European level. They tend not to be as expensive or as demanding as the players who have already made their name.
Our poor showing this season in Europe will make it even more difficult for us to attract decent players because they will look at us and think they're only going to get a maximum of 6 quality games a season (if we even qualify for the group stages). To tolerate the poor SPL in that hope won't appeal to a lot of players but there are players out there who will be prepared to take a chance. We just have to look a bit harder to get the players with the right mentality.

Hail Hail

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Timalloy, good post but I do think we have replaced Wilson, I think Van Dyke is a better player.

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Monkeybhoy, not nit picking but of that £10m how much cash was paid up front, how much did we actually part with. As far as I remember the transfer fees were speculated on, a lot were not disclosed. The team needs quality not quantity. We have lots of players capable of doing a job but no stars. We scraped CL football this year by 2 minutes.

I'd rather have a Jaguar in my garage that 5 fiesta's to choose from.

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@MonkeyBhoy They may have spent £10m, but they didn't spend £10m wisely. They brought in about 6 players with that, and spending £175k on two players in January. Take the £7m spent on Pukki, Boerrigter + Balde - Spend that on one finished article, Finnbogason, he'd have banged in the goals. The squad would be minus two players, but the first team wouldn't. Balde doesn't get a game, Pukki's hardly kicked a ball + Boerrigter's sat wi his feet up on the physio board!

HamiltonBhoy

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Monkeybhoy,, we did spend 10mill but instead of buying the best we could afford with that money imo finbogasson (14 goals so far) for the 6 mill heerenveen asked for we went for pukki 3.5 million who was 4th or 5th choice and balde 2million who we are told is a project (so he must have been at least 10th choice) between them 4 goals .was that saving of 500,000 worth it, worse still we still need a striker,,,, deep river bhoy

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12 Dec 2013 17:28:12
Am not disagreeing a would rather a jaguar than a fiesta lol.
Did the op not ask would the board spend 10 m well they did.
A don't know how much gets payed upfront just like a don't know how much got payed upfront for sutton, hartson.
A think our best bet is to look at players like sutton, Thompson players that are proven good players in EPL but are struggling at there teams just now. Not the ones on crazy wages but there are players out there. Backed up by our youngsters maybe the odd good SPL player and maybe a big signing, maybe not all at 1 time lol . Maybe am just a dreamer aswell.

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I see what you're saying about EPL proven players MonkeyBhoy, and believe it or not, I agree with you lol. A perfect example from the summer for me would've been Gareth Barry. I'm sure Man City are paying a large proportion of his wages while on loan at Everton. Another example is Stewart Downing, might not have done well at Liverpool, but he was proven at Boro + Villa. West Ham paid about £5m for him, would've just been down to wages. This is where raising the bar to £35-40k would mean we can compete for proven EPL players, but who knows, some may fit our current structure.

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{Ed007's Note - As you know HB, I would much rather see our wage structure amended than a big money flop buy just to appease the fans, it would be better for the club in the long run if we raised the wage-cap. The average wage in the EPL is £30k a week, not all the players are on crazy £100k a week deals so I don't see why we can't compete for the odd (proven) player who will command a wage of £35-40k a week. I've said it a hundred times, you get what you pay for and sometimes you just need to bite the bullet and pay the going rate.
If the player is a step up in terms of quality then they deserve to be paid that bit extra and it isn't a big enough gap to cause animosity in the squad. Use the CL money or player sales profits for any transfer fee and if Ledley and Samaras leave, combine their wages to pay a top striker's wages.
If the club had spent their money more wisely in the summer and got a quality striker in I have no doubt that we would at least be going into the EL after Christmas.}

I just wish there were more people who thought like that Ed so the fans could really put a bit of pressure on the board to realise we've been left further behind than we need too! I mean, our majority shareholder, Mr Desmond, is a billionaire + one of the wealthiest people in the UK/Ireland. He must've made a fair buck when he sold his Manchester United shares to the Glazer's in 2005 as well? Did he not used to own London City airport?!

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{Ed007's Note - He bought London City Airport for a reported £23.5m in 1995 and sold it in 2006 for around £750 million. I don't know how much the Glazers paid for his stake in Utd but it wasn't a huge amount (by his standards). His worth is reported at 1.35 billion Euros, he is a confirmed billionaire and consistently appears in Forbes and other respected 'rich-lists' .}

12 Dec 2013 09:32:51
Like the poll Ed, I've never been Lennons greatest fan so I know what way i'm voting. anyhoo.im going to ask for the same poll in a few weeks time after we win 2 or 3 games in a row just to see how the poll has changed and how fickle us supporters really are.

joeshmo1888

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I don't think the poll will change that much - although fans can be very fickle after a few good games.
The football we played (and the goals we scored) against Hearts and Motherwell were appreciated/enjoyed but these performances were well overdue in a league where we stand alone in quality, cash, facilities and support. Up until then we were losing at least a goal a game against anyone and we were struggling to score and pass for weeks before.
Our CL campaign has not just been disappointing - it was embarrassing.
We have lost a proud European home reputation and now our dignity away from home with last nights humping.
We have supported NL through some very tough times and relished his great achievements in overturning the 15 point deficit in 2011/12 and the CL run of 2012. But there have been the disasters of Ross County /Kilmarnock/Morton +more and now I have read - our heaviest defeat in Europe ever goes on his CV.
Hopefully we will hammer this SP title and take the cup to let him finish on a high, but in all honesty I feel he has taken this group of players as far as he can as they are clearly not playing for him when it counts.

JJ

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I'm with JJ here. Lennon was a great Celtic player + captain, but he's an average manager. His team selections bemuse me at the best of times, he is tactically inept and lacks a B or C game. No one will know what the goings on of transfers has been, but there's been rumblings since the summer that he wasn't backed by the board. I wonder how much of his own dosh our main money man, Dermot Desmond, has actually spent. Or does he only eat in to the clubs profit? Our board only care about profit, not quality. Not only do I think Lennon needs to go, but I feel it's time for new ownership - fan ownership. I believe the fans should own the club + vote on how it's run, ie one share = one vote.

HamiltonBhoy

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12 Dec 2013 04:22:11
you know what? after the dust settles. I think tonight's result might just be the best thing that could have happened to us. hear me out.

lets be honest, we were pretty gash. but then again barcelona were on a different planet at times. I don't think many defences would have stopped neymar scoring a hat-trick tonight. he was on fire (but by god, i'd love to trail my studs down the back of his calf - after that post goal celebration crap he needs a slap).

but in the context of the season, this was our least important game. it meant nothing. I know getting humped 6-1 ain't pretty, but i'd rather it happened in the nou camp against a rampant barca in a meaningless game than we get beat 1-0 by hibs at the weekend.

i thought we missed izzy (whose been exceptional recently) and lennys' selection was a bit surprising, but we can take some positives from tonight:

1. van dijk and lustig seem to be becoming really important players for us
2. matthews got a good amount of match time
3. biton (who I think looks like a player), pukki and boeriggter got a bit of european expeirience
4. I personally didn't think it looked like we gave up tonight - good couple of chances and a goal at the end.

i think tomorrow lenny will be a little more sympathetic and philosophical about his evaluation of his players efforts tonight. remember he played in the bratislava embarrassment, which to my mind was a far more shocking result.

this might also be the kick up the arse the board need to invest a bit of cash into the club so we can buy 2 or 3 quality players in january and get them bedded in for the champions league qualifiers next season. if balde, rogic, mcgeouch, pukki and the like aren't getting a game then ship them out on loan or punt them. they ain't going to develop sitting on the bench here. lenny has had to work in the shallow end of the transfer market since he became manager and he is owed a bit of loyalty by the board at this time. we NEED a proven goalscorer, we NEED a creative midfielder and we NEED cover for left back and we NEED to keep ledley. its going to cost us 7-8 million - but we can afford it. and if peter lawell wants bums on seats next year he better dip into the wallet. and say what you want about peter lawell, i'm happy with the way the club is run. football is all about money at the moment and he's made us a shedload of money. the living wage business was a dissapointing mistake - but I think you can tell that first and foremost he is a fan. and he hates the zombies, you can't deny that - the rory bremner comment was class! he just has to chill a bit with the cash and speculate to accumulate this window. that's what good businesses do, and he's a good businessman. I think lenny will get want he needs.

i know some might say I sound like the eternal optimist, but I think the squad is looking good and if we can get some quality in, we could have the makings of a great side. think about it; forster (although he's probably offski in the summer - we'll cross that bridge when we come to it!) lustig, van dijk, izzy, commons, brown, mulgrew, ledley, matthews, forrest, stokes, sami, ambrose, boeriggter, kayal - these are all good players. add a bit of sparkle to that and we can go a long way.

some great youngsters bubbling under aswell - darnell fisher looking like a great prospect, atajic scoring a good goal, I reckon rogic will become more influential as the season goes on, as will biton, and young henderson making his debut.

so here's my predictions for the rest of the season:

1. finish the league unbeaten
2. break the 100pts barrier
3. finbogossan to be spfl top scorer with 30 goals
4. beat the deady bears 7 -1 at parkhead in the scottish cup final
5. efe scores all seven goals and somersaults in front of fat sally after every one

as i've said before, a bhoy can but dream.

got to stop drinking and go to bed now

hail hail

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Mate respect your post but really don't know how u can think we have a good squad. Its clearly in rapid decline sammy is worse than a man down most of the time, forrest is overrated and a would happily sell him, pukki is never a striker or a creative midfielder, boeriggter don't know yet seems injury prone, kayal has never recovered from that 1st injury, ma oppinion ledley is away same as forster, balde can't get any game time, izzy is never a defender, charlie is never a midfielder, stokes is not cl quality and the youngsters can't get a game. List is endless. Time for lennon 2 move on. Folk may disagree but that's how a feel

GunnieBhoy

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I can take a defeat like that no problem.
But when there is a such a lack of effort,
like there was last night.then i'm sorry but that is not acceptable from any celtic player or manager.when we don't have the ball our work rate is absolutely shocking. what the hell do they do at lennoxtown?

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I had logged in but name didn't come up

souljacker

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I agree with you to a certain extent. All you need to do is have a look at Arsenal to see the difference one player can make. Players that were utter dire last season now look top notch! 1 or 2 decent signings in Jan (regardless what position) would make the world of difference imo, but only quality!

Tompo88

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12 Dec 2013 00:13:27
dont know what to say about that tonight. team selection was horrific:

1. Matthews at lb
2. Samaras back in team
3. Derk starting
4. Pukki up top

why out of all the games we could try new tactics do we resort back to the cr4p we play in champions league with 1 up top. if forrest was fit he would definately been in there aswel tonight

the board really need to sort it out. jackie mac for new manager. ever since he's been a manager his teams have went out and passed and had a go. what to you guys think and what's your opinion ed?

also forster has not been the same this year. last year I had confidence when 1 on 1 but this season he gets beat very easily which I hear is the real reason we are watching huddersfield but not a really reliable source it is there keeper we are looking at and not this "6 million vaughan" lol

vvd should be in that holland squad. if it wasnt for him we were beat in double figures tonight easily

for me in january/summer would get the usual under performers out (if its even possible) and get this squad into shape. definately would raid dundee united for 3 or 4 players and would happily pay 8 mill for :
gauld
mackay-steven
souttar
armstrong

quality and hungry for succes. we need a shake up of this current crop

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Jackie Mac still has a lot of learning to do before he is even considered for the Celtic job. If we do replace Lennon it needs to be someone with experience, now who that person would be is another matter. Even with scoring 12 goals in our last 2 domestic games its been a dark few weeks for the club. This European campaign has been a disaster!

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12 Dec 2013 00:53:54
jackie would be my choice out of everyone I can think of that are realistic but the only thing that worries me is owen coyle out of a job at present

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O'Neill away from home - Nightmare in the CL

Strachan away from home - Nightmare away from home the CL (Great last 16 qualification record though)

Mowbray - Nightmare altogether

Lennon got us to a point where we actually looked the business home AND away last year in Europe, since then though the board have sold his best players and replaced them with sh*te.

Seriously, WTF do you think would happen if we gave the job to Jackie Mac who hasn't ever managed a team in Europe?

I'll tell you what would happen mate, right back to square one again. Almost certainly fail to come through the qualifiers to get there in the first place and no guarantee Jackie would ever get the knack or develope into a good enough manager to handle the job.

Lennon deserves a level of criticism, of course he does. But you have to factor in the massive difference it would have made if he had been backed by the board before you start calling for his head and we end up with some pleb like David O'Leary, Mick McCarthy or Roy Keane (Sorry, I know you love him Ed, so did I as a player but he's not a manager)


Stevensee88

Btw I love Jackie Mac, he's just not done enough yet as a manager to be considered a replacement for Lennon.

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I agree about signing a few of these kids from Dundee Utd as they look good but correct me if I'm wrong. Our youth and under 19 teams near enough do a clean sweep every season so where are all our youngsters? Granted Forrest has come through and to a lesser extent Fisher but surely we must have others better than what Utd are producing?

Niall

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Jackie's done more than Lenny had, when he landed the job. Fed up with change. just for change sake. Fed up with Lenny's old pals act. Time for change.

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What about the manager of that new club in Scotland, two promotions in a row, he looks a prospect,,, deep river bhoy

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12 Dec 2013 11:03:27
@ (3)
stevensee88, what managerial experience dif NL have before getting the gig at Celtic, he should be learning by his mistakes, team selection and subs to name but 2, the board are happy enough qualifying and next year if we don't
they'll be happy enough kmowong Rangers will be back the following season .

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@7) Yes mate, and what d'you think cost us the title in Lennon's first season. Inexperience. Got involved in loads of rubbish at the side of the pitch and received multiple touch line bans. What happened in Europe his first 2 seasons? Again inexperience.

Like I say, bringing another unproven manager would put us back to square one. It's not that complicated.

2/3 years and Jackie (all going well) would get the knack of managing us in Europe but why go through that again when we have a manager in place who has proven he can do it, wants to be here and is just looking for the board to match his ambition?

This is just people fed up after a poor result and in general a poor campaign who are wanting change just for the sake of it. It's everything that's wrong with football management just now, no one gets time. I literally shudder at the thought of watching while we try and bleed another manager who could end up another Mowbray. You just don't know what your going to get!

We'll end up saying you don't know what you have till it's gone.

I personally think Lennon deserves another Champions League campaign with the "luxury" of a striker. It's an absolute joke we didn't have a proven goalscorer in the squad for these games. How could he be expected to qualify when your relying on Champions League goals from Stokes and Pukki?

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