Celtic Banter Archive August 12 2014

 

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12 Aug 2014 22:38:25
I think the football model of the club is correct in that we buy with a view to sell at a profit not that much different from most clubs outside the top countries Europe. The issue I have is that over the last 2 years the scouting has been poor as the signings of Pukki, Balde, Borrector et have been poor when we have players on our door step like Russell, May, Mackay Stevens who were like for like signings and would have been less cost and also if they did fail in Europe they still would be able to perform in SPFL so the risk would have been less and we could have moved these guys on to championship teams. I am becoming concerned that the manager looks like he is out of his depth and under pressure at press conferences and the msm know this I understand he has his own style he wants to put n place but it is obvious the players he has inherited do not have the ability to do so he has to adopt a system to give us a chance qualify for cl football then revert to his style during the season gradually.

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12 Aug 2014 22:12:26
I'm sick of lack of signings. Used to get excited bout buying paper in morning saying we are in for players. Canny be arsed with lawell. I'm not looking for millions and millions to be spent. The team needs freshened up. Is that too much to ask. We've missed out on some great players who would have kept their value. May, gauld and many more. To me there is no gamble there. Don't understand what he is up to but it better be good. Mcgeady Forster hooper Ledley wanyama plus champions league money plus probably a payout for using park head for opening ceremony plus season tickets merchandise. Wot is going on. You must be near on 100 million. Wot the flecks going on. Something's not right.

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12 Aug 2014 21:53:56
Ed I'm not really sure how Celtic work as a business but everybody keeps going in about £30m CL money and £30-odd million in transfer fees and how we should be spending it. Surely that money isn't just sitting around, there must be some shareholder absolutely coining it in. How much of that money will realistically be left? Also, it looks like RD's comments today were made to buy enough time until the qualifiers are over when he'll know what little money he's going to have to spend. I'm expecting it to be very quiet until after the Maribor tie has been decided. Followed closely by the usual late scramble and being held to random for our first picks and resorting to buying sub-standard dross. Very indifferent towards the club as a whole atm

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12 Aug 2014 21:37:44
That will be the last time I say anything nice about that pr!@k boruc! On Instagram shouting let football win and he has put a couple of other silly remarks regarding the legia situation, hope big Fraser Forster keeps him out the team all year now!

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If it happened to Celtic you'd do the same

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Boruc plays for Southampton and should have kept a diplomatic silence.

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Boruc, quiet and diplomatic in the same sentence I've seen it all now ;). He is aff his chump. i'm not surprised he has put that up but its pale by comparison to his previous controversial statements ill give him that haha

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Boruc is a hardcore legia fan who is known to conduct the legia ultras in a sing song. Man is entitled to his opinion. I myself am embarrassed that we are through. Yup they broke the rules but a heavy fine should have been the punishment imo.
Still the holy goalie

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13 Aug 2014 16:07:34
Nothing surprising there from 'the holie goalie'.Still fan out there would have him back, for what ever reason I don't know .

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Aye, I suppose in retrospect he is a person. Great keeper though. Embarrassed by Legia issue, no. Fair decision, No. Correct (by the standing rules) decision, yes. I said at beginning a heavy fine but the rules state the punishment if broken so we may get at least another two games in CL out of this. Not over optimistic about progressing though.

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12 Aug 2014 20:56:33
So far we have signed a Cardiff reject and an Aston Villa reject on loan along with a goalkeeper who hasn't held a ball in 3 years and a defender who hasn't played first team football before. Celtic really do spoil us fans sometimes.

Homer voice - 'incase you can't tell I was being sarcastic'

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I'd say I was disappointed but it's past that. To be disappointed you have to first expect.

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12 Aug 2014 20:34:22
Okay for the life of me I cannot see the reasoning in signing the young guy from Man City. I can even see the thought process behind Tonev. I don't think it's a good signing I think it's rather s**t but you never know he may come good and end up a permanent signing.

But the young guy from MC I am sure he is a good player and a cracking prospect but

Does nothing to appease the fans
Is never going to stay beyond 1 year
Doesn't have the experience to play CL or EL football as a starter.
He seems to have been brought in as a squad player for the league campaign. Surely there are some young CBs currently at Celtic or even the young boy at cork who would be a better investment for the future.

I NEVER thought I would see the day where Celtic would be used as a feeder club for the PL teams to get their teenagers some match experience. That may be okay in Norway Ronny but not here were bigger than that.

Or am I just living in a fantasy world where celtic are still a big team and should be at least competing to sign and develop some top players.

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The reasoning behind the loans is simple. To try and help us win games of football!

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Totally agree TB, what young kids are going to join Celtic if they've got a choice of a few teams when they see homegrown boys overlooked to give another teams teenagers experience.🍀

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The centre backs O'Connell and Findlay got plenty of game time pre-season and maybe Deila is worried that neither would be good enough as back-up centre halfs .

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12 Aug 2014 19:32:32
Imagine for a minute that we woke up to the headlines in all the papers CELTIC swoop for Bulgarian speedster in 3m deal.Also snap up the next Kompany with a view to buy. (out of contract next year).Now I know this not strictly true but does a horse know its price when you bet it? We got to stop lookin at the price of players and concentrate on their ability.I for 1 don't care how much a player is I just want him to be good.Our 2 best players in last 15 yrs were bought for buttons (Larsson lubo)now I want the board to spend just as much as anybody but I would rather get a good player for practically nothing with an option than spend 2-3m on a player that might not settle or just be no good to us(see pukki balde tampon etc). Ideally with the right mix of buying and loans but this not an ideal world with the money the top leagues are getting esp EPL.

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12 Aug 2014 21:24:11
Rayman

I get the sentiment of your post but do you really think that if both players do well in their loans that they are going to want to stay at Celtic? Look at it this way, if we had taken Wanyama on loan with a view to buying we would have ended up having to buy/ loan another player the following season and his former team would have pocketed 12 million.

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Every year with the massive EPL TV money accumulating in our nearest Country it's becoming more and more difficult for Celtic to buy the right player for the right price .

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{Ed007's Note - Would you say that Malaga, Real Sociedad, Athletic Bilbao, Udinese, Sampdoria, Toulouse, Auxerre, BorussiaMoenchengladbach or Hertha Berlin would be incapable of competing for players because they don’t have the cash to compete with the EPL?}

Let's face it the recent purchases haven't exactly sett the heather alight. So loan deals make sense for us. Surely the prospect of playing in front of large crowds, getting first team football, taking part in CL games and competing for domestic cups- these are things a professional footballer live for - they have a chance to shine and become heroes, if they don't then we return them.
Gone are the days that we could compete in the transfer market for good players, the world has moved on and we have to adapt, hopefully we can mix homegrown talent, loans and purchases.

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12 Aug 2014 22:52:06
Yourman

We have taken advantage of the huge pots of cash in the EPL by selling all our best players for decent money. It's our strategy that is wrong. We need to speculate to accumulate.

The most worrying thing for me is that after each of the 4 previous manager left (Barnes, O'Neill, Strachan and Mowbray) the incoming manager was backed in the transfer market that first season. Each wheeled and dealed and brought in lots of players who were all first pick. Ronny hasn't had that and it will tell. Square pegs in round holes with the current squad.

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Good points Ed but let's not forget some of the money spinning league games they get without Europe. We really only have Europe to generate real cash. That said, our business strategy seems to be sell as soon as there is any jingling of coins and trust to luck to get us forward. There is every possibility that the dark side will be upon us next season and we have done no real planning to swat them away. As things stand, I would be wary of Hibs, Hearts and even the dead playing us.

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{Ed007's Note - Celtic pay more in wages than every one of the clubs I mentioned. It's a myth we can't compete, the average wage in the EPL is £31k a week, the truth is the board aren't willing to invest to the level required to move the club on, we need clear out the deadwood and invest more wisely in the transfer market.
If you pay better wages you attract better players, better players mean better football and better football means more success and more importantly it puts bums on seats which in turn makes more income.
Our current board has wasted millions gambling on Bangura (£2.2m), Balde (£1.8m) and Pukki (£3m) when we could have have signed Finnbogason for circa £4m (5m Euros). SC Heerenveen told CFC their price, the player was open to the move but Lawwell wasn't keen because John Park didn't think he was worth it, so the three players I mentioned have given us value for our money? We could have bought Finnbogason and VvD for the money we spent on those three which means the £2.6m we did spend on VvD could have been spent elsewhere - and that's without us throwing Boerrigter into the equation!
I'm sorry but although Park can spot a defender or a midfielder his idea of what a striker or attacker is leaves a lot to be desired, Leigh Griffiths in the CL sums it up.
We've wasted millions over the past couple of years on mediocrity, it's the weakest part of the team and has been for years although the GK position has been severely weakened now.
As a club we seeme to b happy with our lot but we aren't even stagnating, we are going backwards, and people are accepting it. We are the biggest club in Scotland, we are the richest club in Scotland and we are the most successful club currently operating in Scotland, it's about time our board started acting like it and it's time the fans demanded they start acting like it. Forget about Sevco, they're insignificant and it will be years before they are in any position to challenge us, if ever again. We've got bigger fish to fry now, or at least we should have.}

Good response Ed. no ambition sums it up.

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12 Aug 2014 18:15:43
So john Collins said that we have brought in a Scotland international GK so does that mean no replacement for bigFF? I just hope young Leo Fasan is a good keeper because zaluska isn't good enough when Gordon gets crocked or just isn't the player he was!

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12 Aug 2014 19:06:14
SOS think we all knew really that gordon was going 2 be the long term replacement for forster

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I know mate as soon as he signed but this BS last week about PL and RD doing everything they could to keep FF! PL would have instigated the move for that money! I feel RD is becoming a puppet for the press talking up PL!

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12 Aug 2014 21:18:34
A don't believe for a second that lawell tried 2 keep him lol only way that would happen is so he could bump his price up even more not cause he want's him 2 stay for the teams sake

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So 2/3 what you are saying is that Fraser Forster is a liar.killy.

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13 Aug 2014 01:40:17
He's not going to come out and say we wanted 2 sell him is he

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12 Aug 2014 15:37:48
Ed, know any reason why all these signings are loans? Is it lack of faith in the boss or is it just that these deals are first to be done?

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{Ed007's Note - It's money, until the wage structure at the club is changed we're going to struggle to attract any quality players.}

The gaffer on BBC "if we buy a player for £10m what do you think the salary of that player will be? It will be five or six times more than you get at Celtic.
"If we pay that, what will happen to the other players? You have to see the big picture. It is not about the fee, it is about salaries.
Looks like ed has it right again

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{Ed007's Note - I've been saying it for the past 18 months.}

So what is the max we are willing to offer in wages?

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{Ed007's Note - £25k but Pedro is trying to bring that down, that's why Ledley left, that's why Samaras wasn't offered a deal and it will be the reason why Commons will probably leave.}

Is brown not on 30k? If we loose CC how the feck are we going to replace him with this biscuit tin mentality? We are never going to compete in Europe for a long long time it's like we are loosing our clubs soul!

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Ed I heard that reason ledley left, was he only wanted to sign for another year and lawwell wanted him to sign for 2 years. Any truth in this?

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{Ed007's Note - There was nowhere for Ledley's wages to go, as a Bosman signing we were paying him top whack so there was nothing better to offer. In fact it's more likely that Pedro wanted him to take a pay cut.}

Ed I have been told that Commons wants £500k sign on and £23k a week. Will sign for 4 years. Don't know if that sounds right or not?

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{Ed007's Note - He's not going to get that, that's a certainty. Commons turns 31 at the end of this month and there is no way that the board would sanction paying circa £5.3 million to a player who is in decline and will be 35 when the deal expires.}

I thought Ledley nearly walked out on Palace because he was only offered similar to what he was getting at Celtic
They got the talks going again and they offered him a bit more .
At the same time Celtic would need to be prepared to pay about £10k a week more for four or five players . That would be a big drain on the funds .

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Lets just say Celtic did offer an extra 5 or 10k per week on 2 or 3 players. Would it really improve the quality of player we could attract to the Scottish league? In terms of the English league's where would that put us, championship? Bottom half of the EPL? Anyone know?

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{Ed007's Note - At the beginning of June 2014 it was reported that the average EPL wage is £31k a week, the previous year it was £30k a week.}

12 Aug 2014 15:46:36
Glad to see we have learned out lesson, 2 loan players.

Does our board really think this will keep the fans happy.

Surprised Tonev is not getting slated bearing in mind the comments made about Coyle and 2nd chances blah blah blah.

Anyways, maybe just maybe once the appeal is out the way the board will ACTUALLY SIGN A PLAYER OF NOTE - not a loan but a permanent transfer.

Loved the comment earlier about taking a season book on loan with the option to buy, wonder what big Peter Lawell would say to that!

So St Johnstone the morra, they have no Stevie May so I am thinking we should at least win the game and if we are lucky the team maybe perform a bit better. Glad its live so all the fans, not just the real Celtic fans ( eh Killy :-) get to see what's on offer

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We have to go with what we have and get . Unless we find out Lawwell or DD or someone has stolen from us or fiddled us, we will be only minor players in the transfer markets .
I would love to be wrong and see a couple of £5m players in before the window closes . B

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Listening to rd on News tonight saying, fees for players is not a problem it's the salaries they want that's the problem, other players would want the same or more.for me that's the problem with modern day footballers greedy Bs and spoilt rotten.killy.

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12 Aug 2014 20:20:21
I think we will do well to get a draw tomorrow night. This 4-2-3-1 system is easy to play against if you just play 5 accross the middle. I can see a draw tomorrow and another draw on Sat. Then CL fixture which could be another nightmare. If that does happen where do we go with Ronnie. He has got to pick up no less than 4 points out of first 2 games and I don't think we will get that?

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12 Aug 2014 14:43:48
I hear the Legia Warsaw Administrator who apparently made the mistakes which resulted in Legia being kicked out of CL has received death threats and been advised to move her family out of town. I would hate to think we would be like that. Surely this error was not down to one poor lass? Sad day if she is shouldering all the blame. Where is the manager and coaches? They name the squad and should know better.

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12 Aug 2014 13:34:30
Actually surprised we made 2 signings yesterday lol I'm not a fan of most loan deals but if it works out we can buy and if not we can say bye bye without worrying about them. If only blade and derk were brought in like this

Me being optimistic it seems we aren't spending money til after the appeal is heard and after that it sshould be straight into the group stages I think meaning a wider range of players available and wanting to come to us

Was looking up maribor and read something there in excellent form and had to have a we laugh when saw the teams they were up against. Something like the bottom 3 teams they have played and it's not far into the season but obviously whoever wrote that wernt thinking straight

Also on the new boy from city, he could be a great signing fir us. Him and virgil will make a good pairing. Although very young I have a bit more faith with him than our other number 1 cb efe

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One player I hoped we would sign is Rekik from City, last season he was very impressive for PSV and I think he'd compliment Virgil well. Hopefully Denayer will but again it's two underwhelming signings coupled with Tonev. I really don't think the manager has much of a say at Celtic anymore. We don't operate like a CL side at all. We don't spend to strengthen. It doesn't even take much, Stoke have got Bojan and Diouf for less than 2m combined! What I'd give for that partnership. And if getting through last season was by the skin of our teeth, then IF we qualify this season I don't know what it will be by!

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Is that Diouf the ex Liverpool and the player who played in Govan . I would think we should give plenty to keep him away.

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12 Aug 2014 18:22:40
It's the Manchester United diouf. Mame Biram diouf or something like that. Surprised didn't actually get to a bigger team. Has been great in the bundesliga

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No yourman. Just no.

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Thank God for that .

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12 Aug 2014 11:02:49
Loan deals and an idealist in charge of the team, reminiscent of the Mowbray era. I think Celtic could be in trouble against Maribor, hope I'm wrong!

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12 Aug 2014 13:36:03
I was thinking the same myself mate, there are a lot of similarities with now and the mowbrew era. I'm not exactly thrilled that we have just been given 10 million and we are frittering it away on loan deals.

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I'm more worried about the SPL at present. The rest of the teams have strengthened and have some momentum to build on (especially St Johnstone and Dundee Utd who we play next).
We look disorganised, uninterested and nowhere near Champions form.
I am obviously excited about the new campaign and delighted to get another bite at the CL; but I am more apprehensive and not as confident as I usually am as a Celtic supporter.

JJ

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12 Aug 2014 14:12:58
If we start off bad in the league and for arguments sake lost both openng games who would be at fault? the manager again or the board for not backing with signings

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@gunniebhoy it would be the manager as it would not happen if Lennon was still here with same players.

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Rayman you are spot on. We would not have lost 6-1 to Warsaw with Lennon in charge. Look at how bad things have got. We are crapping our pants about playing St Johnston. What is going on here?

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Come on be positive 6 nil over the two matches . 6 points in the bag and the players and the whole club up and ready for Europe tomorrow week.

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12 Aug 2014 10:17:47
What the hell is wrong with this club? A second bite at the cherry and yet ineptitude still shines through. If we do not get through this tie, they will bring the THUNDER back to Celtic park, unfortunately it will be outside the ground not in it!. Are we to believe that a club (supposidely) the size of Celtic have no transfer targets when the opportunity to buy only arises twice each year? May be it, s time for Celtic supporters to start buying season tickets ON LOAN with a view to buying if we like what we see!

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Love the idea of a loan ST. Not so crazy either. Try before you buy.

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12 Aug 2014 09:37:09
Hearing that we signed another young loan player from man rubbishy along with Denayer.
You heard anything?
HH

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12 Aug 2014 01:04:21
heres my team. not only would we win the champions league, but we would be invited to the world cup probably and run amok there too.
the only way we would get beat was if the team were told to take up basketball or something ;)

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That's an impressive looking team indeed Frankie.

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11 Aug 2014 23:11:49
Ed i'm really worried that warsaw will win their appeal as thwy seem certain they will do you think they will win the appeal and if so what happens from then on as we were seeded in the draw

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{Ed007's Note - I can't see them winning the appeal.}

Why is anyone talking about this?they broke the rules. If they appeal, so what?unless eufa want to change the rules to let any club play a suspended player for a few minutes to take a free kick eg annd score a goal eg, they have to go by the rules at the minute, I feel sorry for Legia, I was at the murrayfield game, it was'nt very pretty, celtic were so bad, they made warsaw look good, but Legia deserved to go through, but rules are rules.

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I agree Ed. The rules and punishment for breaking them are in black and white, no grey area. They have no grounds for a decision reversal. A lot of decisions made by courts, panels tribunals etc may be morally unfair but they are legally sound. This is one of those cases (imo) Hail Hail

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Just an afterthought. Do Celtic get any representation at this appeal?

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Tim I don't see why CFC would need representation. We are neither the accuser nor the accused. We have no input into the proceedings.

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I really hope not but legia seem very confident and claim to have already spoken to platini . ed why do you think it will not happen just ease my mind haha HH

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{Ed007's Note - Ed002 is an expert in this kind of thing, nothing's ever a certainty but there's a 99% chance that the ruling will stand.}

Fair comment Chris but we should have a presence to ensure transparency. If (which I find highly unlikely) we get kicked back out then we don't know what was said or done to justify EUFA bending their own rules. I think it's all hypothetical but I just don't trust them.

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