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27 Aug 2015 10:40:37
I agree with a lot of what paradise has said. I'm not sure this big game issue is relevant. I do agree that RD still has a lot to prove and he has definitely made mistakes on selection and substitutions.
However, only 2 Deila signings made the squad for the Maribor games and 3 started the Malmö game. He hasn't been backed. Lennon left because he knew that summer the club would sell and not buy so he couldn't take the club further. If you look back at the last 3 consistent regimes we've had it takes time and major overhaul to move on. After o'neill strachan had to reduce the wage bill and move on some ageing expensive pros. Lennon had to do a similar job to get his squad.
One criticism I would have of Deila is that he wasn't ruthless enough with some of the deadwood but if you're told that you won't be able to replace what you get rid of them you would be reluctant.
Boyata was brought in to replace VVD so they were always going to be a bad partnership. Both need a Denayer style to compliment them. It is a difficult situation for anyone and we must stop forcing managers especially a new one to manage in short stints of a season.
Stint 1 - use someone else's squad to take on your ideas and get criticized for changing too much too soon or fail with those players using someone else's strategies.
Stint 2 - if you do get into the CL have 1 week to revamp a squad not good enough for the CL Group or struggle to get substandard EL players in and waste 2m per head.
Stint 3 - spend the rest of the season with a squad that is too expensive for what your trying to achieve (domestic success) all the while people forget the cycle mentioned above just enough so that the board push you into the cycle again next summer.
I'd be happy to see up to 10 players leave (maybe 1 or 2 too many) to reduce the wage bill and maybe get a couple of mill in fees so that can be used in summer or jan to get ready for qualifiers rather than get ready for CL if we get through. We have enough to win the double defo and with better luck the treble. We might get a chance to see young players get a run out. Look how raw boyata is having hardly played first team football at his age.
What do you think we could achieve if we list the following?
Dirk, scep, stokes, Efe, VVD, mulgrew, commons, macgregor.
1.) 27 Aug 2015 15:17:00
I would keep commons he still in my opinion has a lot to us as the rest I agree
2.) 27 Aug 2015 20:33:45
AndyThom
Stint 3 - isn't that what we already did last season? Sold Forster for a decent few and brought in players in January with a view to settling them in for this years qualifiers. We were even being told in June that the January signing were actually summer signings brought in early.
Plan sounds good but how about we actually back out manager with at least what we bring in from sales? 10 million brough in from Foster but only 4 spent, 2 million on Scepovic and 2 on the 2 from Dundee United. 10 million about to come on for VVD and again about 4 million spent.
Although season ticket prices have gone down we are making millions from that and other revenue streams so we should be able to spend what we make from sales.
3.) 27 Aug 2015 23:58:50
Wanting rid of the dead wood is one thing . These players are all on contracts and unless some other club want to sign them and pay their wages they won't be going anywhere . These Celtic players couldn't earn the same money anywhere else in Scotland , so they are hard to move .
25 Aug 2015 22:06:54
I'm most disappointed with the lack of discipline - in all senses. This led to a lack of leadership. Scott Brown has looked every bit a man staring into a kebab in the midst of an existential meltdown.
Over the two legs we were aggressive or angry but at no point were we intense - our focus was never in the game and we got caught up in niggling and labored football.
It's a chance to seriously trim the inflated wage bill and be far more selective of those we bring in. Some of the performances were awful. Johansen and VVD were shocking and their arrogant laziness hung many out to dry tonight.
Janko was good so that was pleasing.
Out:
VVD
Stokes
Forest
Ambrose
Scepovic
Commons
Blood more youngsters this season and keep the faith.
1.) 25 Aug 2015 22:19:28
AndyThomBhoy, Forrst was our best player. He was the only player able to beat a man and move forward. When he went off no one tried to beat a man. The entire team can't be that bad as individuals but as a team we haven't got a clue. VVD worth £20 mill? Not on the last Performance
2.) 25 Aug 2015 22:24:42
Blood more youngsters and run the risk of winning nowt. Would rather have seen Scepovic up top than Ciftci.
3.) 25 Aug 2015 22:28:14
I cannot disagree with you AndyThombhoy . I think Forrest offers something Mulgrew not a lot . We also need to give a long hard look at Deila , has he talked a better job than he has done . We had little excuses for tonight , only Lustig injured , Deila had his team for long enough , but we had a very poor performance one of our worse .
4.) 25 Aug 2015 22:57:54
Johnnymac, you're right about VVD. 10m is a great deal as you can see when tested he can struggle badly. He picks up stupid bookings and can be wasteful and overindulgent. That is me analyzing him from a Southampton point of view as I'd keep him if we could.
Forest tried to beat players but created nothing as he generally ran into trouble or his final ball was awful.
5.) 25 Aug 2015 23:03:39
"Scott Brown has looked every bit a man staring into a kebab in the midst of an existential meltdown" - Hahaha: bloody genius.
Forrest was our best over the two ties. Only plus to take really.
6.) 25 Aug 2015 23:31:45
Forrest again beat players but his final baw just ain't good enough. But, I agree, he dud have a go. Unlike the rest if the team apart from janko and Gordon.
The rest were shameful. Shat it.
7.) 26 Aug 2015 01:16:54
Does anyone else think we should get new management team in for the EUROPA league
17 Aug 2015 16:13:30
I said Michu not Miku!
Just a thought on our striking woes. Michu is available and Swansea are keen to offload him with a year left on his current deal.
His 45k would be a good calculated gamble as we wouldn't need to pay a fee as we could take him on loan and cover the final year of his deal.
This deal would cost us 2m which could be covered by selling stokes and getting his wages off the books as well as some more of the deadwood. We will sign a striker and pay him so like scepovic that deal could cost us 5m over 3 or 4 years if you add fee and wages.
We could sell the CL to him as a shop window as he could do well for himself on a bosman next summer.
1.) 17 Aug 2015 16:54:30
Aah AndyThomBhoy, where do I start? £45k a week, Celtic will NOT pay anywhere near that, please go over to the dark side's pages and read the other deluded poster on there who thinks Sevco will buy him
2.) 17 Aug 2015 20:08:04
Timalloy, you hardly started never mind finished! I have no interest in the sevco pages - bar maybe a cheeky quip about Scott Allan - and tend to agree with Ed that people should move on and why not focus on our club.
Anyway, my point is essentially whether it is Michu or Miku and 4 other duffers Celtic are paying those wages - albeit in batches. We will spend on scepovic and another striker potentially 5 to 10 million on strikers and not make any impact on our starting 11. We shop too regularly in a market where spending 2 -3 m adds very little compared to 500k. Pukki and Scepovic compared to LG a perfect very recent e example. My point is abut wasting money on what we don't need. If that is the core strategy then I'd rather sell the deadwood not reinvest and then they can bring more off the season book price.
On sevco, they spent a disgusting amount of money when there was no need - being full time would have got them out of the bottom tier alone.
Again, we have exhausted our current strategy. If you think a high earner would distrust morale then that is a possible discussion point.
3.) 17 Aug 2015 22:36:55
How would Scott Brown or anyone else in the team feel that someone walks in with about double their wages?
4.) 17 Aug 2015 23:23:54
Andythombhoy good post, I've thought the same for a while now, I'm sick of this 2 million pound striker market would rather not bother and just give a youngster a chance (cheap option) or give a proven loan striker 40 grand a week over a season (2 million) .As for upsetting players already here , if they were worth 40 or 50 grand a week they wouldn't be playing here they would be in one of the cash rich leagues
5.) 18 Aug 2015 09:12:35
I think Brown would accept someone on more money as if he was focused on cash he would have moved elsewhere before now. Down south there is a perfect storm of desperation and disposable revenue that will be x5 from next year so that leads to players who are not good enough for us being paid more than double our highest earner - remember our jimmy Bullard punt?
Brown is on 25kish and has been since he arrived so he has done very well and he deserves to. We will look after him with a deal that will run beyond his worth to the team so his payoff will be when he is coming to the end of his career and will still be on good Celtic money.
Another way round envy would be to offer incentivized packages for progress.
Our main problem is we can't exploit the SA market like the Portuguese so we will struggle get a quality striker who needs games and time to progress. I am actually really happy with our current starters but we need a bit of quality up top to bring that bit extra out of everyone else.
6.) 18 Aug 2015 22:12:05
I think our wage structure has Scot Brown our highest paid player.
Problems would certainly arise if we bought in a player who hadn't yet proved himself at Celtic and made him our highest paid player by some distance .
Raising Brown's pay above this new player would probably result in nearly every first team player getting a pay rise .
The board would be very unpopular if this happened .
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18 Aug 2017 19:11:31
Come on minto11, he's already been with us 18 months and been excellent. We know exactly what we are getting regardless of loan status he will be even better this year and develop further under Rogers within a developing team at an exciting time for them.
Roberts is not your average loan and I don't think it says anything about the club that people don't already know in terms of finance - bottom of EPL get 6 or 7 times what we get as champions. Never king the additional share of tv deal.
The key this summer was to keep our best players and attempt to add a bit of quality to up the ante in CL Group. In different worlds, we are a bit like Spurs and getting genuine quality to improve isn't easy especially when you are trying to get value. Some people are going off their nut that we haven't signed x or y position or player but what is the point if our best can raise their game a bit more then that moves replacing say Dembele into a whole other bracket.
If Tierney leaves in the next coupl of years we are not replacing him as he is genuinely one of the best LB in the game. I'm not saying Roberts is the attacking equivalent but he cost city 12m+ at the age when Tierney broke into our team - we can't pay that but just think how great it is that we produced that.
There are a lot of good players being hoarded by big clubs and I think the only difference between Ntcham and Roberts is that Roberts was determined to get a chance and prove his worth to Guardiola. Ntcham was ready to leave to continue playing first team football and we look like we've got a bargain but if he continues to play like the other night then I'd have taken an 18 month loan for him. If can't produce it we know we can develop it so 2 year loans or buy back clauses are decent (not perfect) for us.
25 Aug 2015 22:57:54
Johnnymac, you're right about VVD. 10m is a great deal as you can see when tested he can struggle badly. He picks up stupid bookings and can be wasteful and overindulgent. That is me analyzing him from a Southampton point of view as I'd keep him if we could.
Forest tried to beat players but created nothing as he generally ran into trouble or his final ball was awful.
25 Aug 2015 22:18:59
Put the bottle down! I agree we were shit! The answe is not Ron vlaar who is a very expensive shit.
You talk about going backwards and you suggest going back for another 6 month Robbie keane loan?!
We don't need any new signings now. We should give youth a chance and get rid of at least 6 to 10 out of the squad to reduce the wage bill.
18 Aug 2015 09:12:35
I think Brown would accept someone on more money as if he was focused on cash he would have moved elsewhere before now. Down south there is a perfect storm of desperation and disposable revenue that will be x5 from next year so that leads to players who are not good enough for us being paid more than double our highest earner - remember our jimmy Bullard punt?
Brown is on 25kish and has been since he arrived so he has done very well and he deserves to. We will look after him with a deal that will run beyond his worth to the team so his payoff will be when he is coming to the end of his career and will still be on good Celtic money.
Another way round envy would be to offer incentivized packages for progress.
Our main problem is we can't exploit the SA market like the Portuguese so we will struggle get a quality striker who needs games and time to progress. I am actually really happy with our current starters but we need a bit of quality up top to bring that bit extra out of everyone else.
17 Aug 2015 20:08:04
Timalloy, you hardly started never mind finished! I have no interest in the sevco pages - bar maybe a cheeky quip about Scott Allan - and tend to agree with Ed that people should move on and why not focus on our club.
Anyway, my point is essentially whether it is Michu or Miku and 4 other duffers Celtic are paying those wages - albeit in batches. We will spend on scepovic and another striker potentially 5 to 10 million on strikers and not make any impact on our starting 11. We shop too regularly in a market where spending 2 -3 m adds very little compared to 500k. Pukki and Scepovic compared to LG a perfect very recent e example. My point is abut wasting money on what we don't need. If that is the core strategy then I'd rather sell the deadwood not reinvest and then they can bring more off the season book price.
On sevco, they spent a disgusting amount of money when there was no need - being full time would have got them out of the bottom tier alone.
Again, we have exhausted our current strategy. If you think a high earner would distrust morale then that is a possible discussion point.