17 Feb 2013 18:01:30
Been catching up on the related Green Brigade stories out there. It would seem that the police are filming them at games, watching the tapes back, then arresting those selected at the next game. The GB are claiming it is a "freedom of speech" issue. I have posted before that, personally, I don't think Celtic Park or any away ground is the place for any songs that involve singing about the IRA. While I agree with freedom of speech, this is where we are at just now. We live in a society full of people waiting to be offended, sadly these people are pandered to, with us the obvious target. Not for one minute would I agree with our club pushing our Irish heritage to one side, but there are plenty songs without the offensive lyrics. We really don't want to lose these guys from the ground, let's face it at the moment they are the ground, so I would hope this can be sorted. Get a sit down with them, air the grievances and move on. Having said that, I wonder what a sharp lawyer would make of this police tactic? Filming people without there permission, looking over tapes with no representation, then arresting them as they go to a social gathering? Seems a bit Orwellian to me. . green jhedi

1.) 17 Feb 2013
Agree 100% about getting a good lawyer, this is a disgrace,. ,. kbarry

2.) 17 Feb 2013
No place at Celtic park for these songs & it's not the place to boycott either, plenty of folk come on here & post about the walking dead over at piebrox boycott this picket that so on & so forth. I watch the police filming from were I sit in 113 particularly when the green brigade start chanting lyrics we all know rightly or wrongly shouldn't be sung. They also note the lyrics being sung & the exact time the offence in there eyes took place. If our fans were not doing anything I would be up in arms about it but this is not the case, I do not need the IRA to set me free! I support Glasgow Celtic & take great pride spreading the word about our club it's history our fantastic supporters & have done so all over the world. Leave politics out of paradise. AbS

3.) 17 Feb 2013
Whilst acknowledging the heavy handed (and let's face it financially wasteful) attitude of Police in relation to the GB and fto ootball fans in general I feel that rather than crying foul over "free speech" or claiming we're singled out as Celtic fans, supporters both in and out of the GB need to look at why Police, not to mention the club, have taken action in recent weeks and months. The narrative goes that the GB are simply a group of Celtic fans who want to sing and support their club.

Truth is though they continually and deliberately ignore requests from both the club and fellow supporters to refrain from singing banned songs, break seats from "lateral movement" gather in greater numbers than is permitted in area 111 (putting their own safety and stadium licence at risk) let off smoke bombs (despite requests from fellow supporters not to) and as an exclusive organisation bring politics to Celtic which others would rather was left at home.

The GB often do this in childish defiance because they believe they are entitled to behave this way & that anything else is against their rights and dimishes the clubs traditons. The truth is some in the group could do with a lesson in these. The GB bring great colour and noise to the ground and at their best are a great asset. I will never forget the display at the Barcelona game and they are to be comended for their time, expense and dedication. Sadly, at their worst they are an embarassment and unfortunately they refuse to change. Much as I remember the pride at Barcelona I will also never forget the shame brought on Celtic by national news coverage of the poppy banner. Regardless of your views on the issue this was akin to a protest at a funeral - like everything, there's a time and a place.

Area 111 was originally designated as a singing section in reposnse to requests from supporters. It is now occupied by an exclusive semi political organisation open to few Celtic fans. It is one which believes it should hold influence over the way the club is run and one which appears to believe it is of greater importance than other fans. According to the group the club doesn't show the GB respect by refusing meetings. It betrays something of their attitude that they feel they are worthy of one. you don't need a meeting to be told the rules. How many fans are ever granted a meeting with PL or NL? Very few I guess. Equally, how many groups of fans have ever been given a single section for few hundred mates, and despite frequently breaking the conditons are allowed to remain, even having the manager pop over to plant the league trophy in front of them. The truth is the GB have had plent patience, respect and praise from a club which has tried to accomodate them and smooth their rought edges.

Repect however works both ways and at times the GB show scant respect for the clubs' reputation, its fellow supporters, or its custodians. Their actions are childish and their statements smack of their own self importance. There is and always have been gleeful Police just itching to arrest our fans (and yes, those of Rangers too), it will always be the same. Question is, how many excuses do you need to give them? There are genuine questions to the effectiveness and ecency of football policing, not to mentoin the cost. Of greater concern to me however is Celtic, it's fans as a whole and its reputation as a club.

We really need to ask is it time to end the notion of an organisation within a support and get back to simply have a support!

4.) 17 Feb 2013
Imo your post is spot on & I have feared the GB would become more like the ultras in Italy, what next there own gate? AbS

5.) 18 Feb 2013
I have to agree with @3) aswell lads. Of course there are elements of GJ's post I agree with also, the entrapment issue especially but you can't get away from some of the facts that post writes about.

6.) 18 Feb 2013
No green brigade member has ever been convicted jhedi, not a single one. The guys have been arrested from family homes, work etc on trumped up charges then charges laughed outta court.

This suggests that it's an attack in freedom of speech. If no law has been broken there is obviously no offence and therefore the songs etc being sung are fine in respect of the law

A big disappointment to me is the actions of the club-perfectly happy to sell just can't get enough and glasgows green and white merch not to mention how many images if the 125 year display they have sold.

To then block swipe cards and issue bans with no reasoning is low down and sneaky, after the last boycott the gb were promised a meeting with the club- this never materialised- shame on celtic. They appear to be colluding with focus and their intimidation of celtic fans.

Out of interest- how many celtic fans were arrested during the dens riot? Exactly- this was stage one of the ante upping added in a little divide and conquer.

Interesting how not a word has been mentioned about the THE rangers fans causing all sorts o bother at the weekend forcing restaurants, shops etc to stop their days trade early.

Support the green brigade- they are not criminals and do not deserve the abhorrent treatment they are getting.

Jamie mac

7.) 18 Feb 2013
Having said that, I wonder what a sharp lawyer would make of this police tactic? Filming people without there permission, looking over tapes with no representation, then arresting them as they go to a social gathering? Seems a bit Orwellian to me

I am no lawyer but even I know that as long as there are signs up saying that CCTV is taking place then you don't have a leg to stand on as it is a public area.

As for looking over tapes just think back to Manchester and the Rangers sorry chelsea fans and look at the arrests that they made after the event due to video evidence.

Also well said to 3 good post and excellant comments.

Ian

8.) 18 Feb 2013
I agree that politics should be left out of football - there are plenty of social clubs you can join if you want to sing those kind of songs. I just wish that Strathclyde Police were equally zealous in rooting out the fenian-blood waders across the city.

TomTheTim

9.) 18 Feb 2013
Support the team leave the poltics and the pro IRA stuff to a more appropriate venue. don't undermine the good work done bring atmosphere and colur to the stadium with petty and childish behaviour. We are Celtic fans not poltical activists remeber we are there to watch football and support the team no more no less

10.) 18 Feb 2013
No green brigade member has ever been convicted jhedi, not a single one. The guys have been arrested from family homes, work etc on trumped up charges then charges laughed outta court.

This suggests that it's an attack in freedom of speech. If no law has been broken there is obviously no offence and therefore the songs etc being sung are fine in respect of the law

A big disappointment to me is the actions of the club-perfectly happy to sell just can't get enough and glasgows green and white merch not to mention how many images if the 125 year display they have sold.

To then block swipe cards and issue bans with no reasoning is low down and sneaky, after the last boycott the gb were promised a meeting with the club- this never materialised- shame on celtic. They appear to be colluding with focus and their intimidation of celtic fans.

Out of interest- how many celtic fans were arrested during the dens riot? Exactly- this was stage one of the ante upping added in a little divide and conquer.

Interesting how not a word has been mentioned about the THE rangers fans causing all sorts o bother at the weekend forcing restaurants, shops etc to stop their days trade early.

Support the green brigade- they are not criminals and do not deserve the abhorrent treatment they are getting.

Jamie mac

11.) 18 Feb 2013
I am a forest fan and completely neutral but can say that this is part of the kick racism out of football. There is always and has always been rivalry that can spill over into violence without the need to bring in politics into sport. Remember when South Africa way boycotted because of politics really led to some graet sports people not being able to compete. Though I am not a human rights activist and don't like pandering this racism thing they are pushing is gathering momentum and I would hate to see any British team stopped from competing and let's face it those at FIFA will start in the UK if they want to ban Bless Platini and Blatter
Cyprus Red

12.) 18 Feb 2013
Re: @3
That was as well thought out and structured a post as I've read on here. I agree 100%.
But also, why don't the cops just arrest them in the stadium - surely problem nipped in the bud? Or does that equal Celtic PLC embarrassed?
Pity you never tagged your post, it's always good to read intelligent 'arguments' on the site - I for one would have looked out for any future contributions. kbt1978

13.) 18 Feb 2013
@3 what are the banned songs and why no punishment to the club?

I think the "banned" songs you speak of ate actually frowned upon ones. No law being broken so please stop saying they're doing this or that.

The whole reason for this and lawwells statement of "give them enough rope" stems from the poppy protest. He was told to back down from dd and allow the fans their right to protest.

Lawwell is a man with an ego and a grudge to go with it, he's divulging fans details to police who cannot secure any convictions.

So it's not the gb or the songs they sing ( which were around decades before them) that's the embarrassment- it's our power mad, egotistical chief exec.

If its to be believed he pointed out a gb member and said "he's got to go" without so much as a reason.

Lawwell is turning our support against one another- it's time we let him know its not on. Otherwise we risk the problems the zombies have with their supporters assoc.

The very fact the our supporters association has backed the gb should be enough for us to believe the gbs version.

It's football fans civil liberties we are talking about.

Does anyone know why the gb have stated that they can no longer work with the fans against criminalisation organisation? If you find that out you'll be closer to the truth.

Support the green brigade!

Jamie mac

14.) 18 Feb 2013
Civil liberties?.
'I had a dream'. and it was not Martin Luther but Jamie Mac leading the Green Brigade against the 'tyrannical despot' and megalomaniac, the power mad dictator Peter Lawell!.
Aw naw. wait a minute.
It was a F^*$ING NIGHTMARE!

15.) 18 Feb 2013
Was that an attempt at a witticism mate? cue tumbleweed and canned laughter.

Yes civil liberties- guys being targeted because of which gate they enter a football match through.

You're attempt to ridicule me shows nothing other than the fact you are RIDICULOUS. It's not just me saying these things son, whole load of celtic fans concerned about our fellow fans being arrested from homes, workplaces etc all on charges unjust in the eyes of the court.

You have a grudge against me from other exchanges but to let that cloud ANYTHING I say is not only naive, pitiful and pathetic, it also shows you to be arrogant, ignorant and most of all, totally clueless.

You're having a go at me for saying things echoed on various celtic forums etc- any info posted is also available online and has been posted by people who ARE NOT me.

Take your blind grudge, re think it, read others viewpoints and think carefully before you attempt to ridicule me through an attempt at humour (still not sure as no one could be do humourless whilst trying to be funny/smart surely?)

People being oppressed is NOT something I stand for, nor does a huge section of our support so to ridicule me for this is nothing more than pathetic.

So again just for your benefit kbt-

STAND UP FOR THE GREEN BRIGADE AGAINST THE OPPRESSION BY LAWWELL AND THE POLICE.

Enjoy- I await your next semi-legible, definetly not funny, ill informed retort.

Jamie mac (will stand up for fellow fans at ANY personal cost, you clearly wouldn't)

16.) 18 Feb 2013
My money's on kbt being a kerrydale street warrior denouncing all that is wrong with our support- nothing but an apologist, well don't apologise on my/our behalf as we have the fortitude to have strength on our convictions.

Of my hole post only two words responded too and even then it's through a pre-pubescent attempt at hour.

You are the joke- all spineless people usually are.

Jamie mac

17.) 18 Feb 2013
" sold subject to CELTIC FC ground regulations " is printed on the back of every ticket for every game! Regardless of gate of entry. No individual player, manager, custodian or chief executive is ever bigger than the club, nor will a section of support ever be. all the support together are the club! andybhoy

18.) 19 Feb 2013
I couldn't help myself - knew you would bite.
Correct, I only commented on 2 words.
"Civil Liberties" and football matches don't mix for me. This is the 21st century.
If you believe the Green brigade are the rightful custodians of freedom of speech, and are the rightful representatives of the oppressed minorities of Scotland then good luck to you pal. I'll look forward to their manifesto on the independence referendum.
If the Police methods being reported are true then they are excessive.
The Green Brigade at Barca were incredible. They should remember though, that they are fans and paying customers like the rest of us - but it seems that they are already getting 'preferential' treatment.
No Celtic fan is better at supporting the club than another - me and you included Jamie - we surely both have the clubs best interests at heart.
The same should apply to the GB.

19.) 19 Feb 2013
Jamie Mac you seem to be an angry man. There is only a handfull of posts on this thread and everyone apart from you have condemed the GB for their political stance and singing of certain songs.

Cant you see that attitudes towards those songs and political points are changing.

We don't need to live in the past like that lot over the road.

The GB need to keep their political views and inappropriate songs out of CP and the sooner they see this the sooner people will stop pointing fingers.

20.) 19 Feb 2013
Kbt attending any social/ entertainment event is a civil liberty, course it is so you contradict your own argument there. The songs are not illegal, have been deemed inoffensive by many courts all over Scotland. People may wish not to hear these songs but being that they aren't outlawed then there can be no real complaint.

Ian heresAn illustration of why I am angry, I know a lad who was ejected and barred for two years from cp for a song he sang. The police picked this matter up at a later date, they had no original involvement (blows the we aren't colluding argument out the water)

The lad needed several days off of work for pleading diet, intermediate hearing and, of course, the actual trial. This rumbled on for months at both a financial and emotional cost to the lad.

The case was fling out in a matter of minutes by the presiding judge who branded it a gross waste of time and resources. So the lad was told no law had been broken.

This obviously had an effect on the lad, he had been stigmatised as a bigot, bitter and sectarian in the local area on account of the sing he sang. The JUDGE (clue is in the name) said this wasn't the case.

In times when employers are becoming increasingly likely to research potential employees online- the damage this fraudulent charge could have done, not only to his current but future employment also is horrendous.

Going by the they bring it on themselves etc etc argument can you really say this charge was ever about right and wrong and fairness?

Did the boy himself deserve all of this hassle for a song deemed inoffensive? Did he deserve it for being a member of the gb?

This guy, and he's not alone believe me, has had a whole load of stress for nothing. That's not to mention that he is now viewed as a bigot, regardless of outcome of trial, and this potentially COULD affect his whole life.

How would we all feel if one of these trumped up charges resulted in a conviction and the "guilty" party had to list this on application forms etc?

If joe soap does something wrong he gets told about it and punished- when the police do something wrong there is no real comeback for the aggrieved party. And by simply saying "they bring attention to themselves or shouldn't sing political songs etc" we are giving ra polis the green card to carry on. This does not sit well with me.

Balanced? Ma arse

Jamie mac

21.) 21 Feb 2013
I'll need to own up to being the author of @3. Seems to have caused much debate. Paul