Celtic Rumours Archive May 05 2012

05 May 2012 21:58:07
Just finished watching the final barca home game there 4-0 barca, messi got the four but also it was peps last game at the nou camp and there was a video showed at it shows how successful he was.

Sometimes he only had a plan A but even though your a Madrid fan ed am sure yourself and everyone else will agree he is one of the finest managers that has ever been in this game.

I am a barca fan been to a few games and a sad moment to see him go but what ever team he ends up at will be a very lucky football team.

Cumby Bhoy {Ed007's Note - Pep fell on his feet at Barca I would say. The players had been coached together for years and clicked all at the same time. Barca were a success before him and will continue to be, without much changing. Some of his own transfers have been questionable and until he can take a club (LFC?? Tottenham?? Sevilla?? just for examples) and turns the club around to serious European contenders and consistently winning leagues etc then there will always be a question mark over his overall ability. At only 41 and with four seasons experience at top level management I think you are jumping the gun with the one of the finest managers ever. You are doing a massive injustice to managers like Stein, Busby, Shankly, Clough, Sacchi, Robson AF, Cappello, and even Mourinho, and plenty more that older posters could add to that list from over the years. There are plenty of respected football people say about the question mark over his overall ability. Remember as well, La Liga is one of the top leagues in the world, but like Scotland, it is basically a two horse race, it is just that their 'mediocre' teams and players are top class compared to our own 'mediocre' level. Let's see how many European trophies Pep wins after his sabbatical.}

I agree Ed. And i think Pep would agree too. I think that is why he is moving on, to prove to himself and everone else how good he is, if indeed he is that good.

Joeshmo1888 {Ed007's Note - Phew.....I expected dogs abuse there Joe lol}

Yes Ed007..lets wait and see. Will you gladly stand corrected if you're wrong ? The powers that be at Bracalona must have seen something in him to appoint him manager in 2008 & he did not too shabby for his first season in charge. Mrs E {Ed007's Note - Didn't do too well this year though did he? Even a woman could have took Barca to second in the league this year. Yourself and Eva Carneiro from Chelsea would be a management 'dream team' I'm sure Mrs.}

Ed007; gotta agree with you mate.The Barca he walked into were already established and i think he might have seen the writing on the wall after the chelsea game.Xavi,iniesta and puyol are all at the tail end of their careers,but if you got messi you will always be there or thereabouts.They are another team that needs a physical striker to play on central defenders and let them play up the park a bit quicker.Be interesting to see where he ends up.........green jhedi

He might do better than Sir Alex this season.. How long did it take him again before he won his first title at Utd ?

I think we should just wait and see. What was Pep supposed to do when offered the chance of managing Barcalona say no just because there was a good team in place and some would question his ability ? He has the respect of all the players and fans does Mourhino have that ? I would hardly call Fabregas a questionable signing..Mrs E {Ed007's Note - Barca are currently using the old LFC 'Boot Room' philosophy and promoting from within, everyone has been working the Barca way for years and it is just a conveyor belt of coaches, not managers. AF turned round the fortunes of an entire club and brought them back to greatness...who has Pep done that for? Even Jose has turned entire clubs around (how many CL trophies with different teams is it?) and as for Fabregas, what about Dmytro Chygrynskiy, Martin Caceres, Hleb, Keirrison, Henrique and the best one, Ibrahimovic......The spine and class of the team he inherited, anything he really tried to change can not be considered a success. When he has came up against a tactician who can out think him he has failed, Barca are a bit like CFC, there is no Plan B, if it's not working they/we are stumped.}

Only thing i disagree with is that he isnt already a legend, or with the greats. Although he had inherited such a team, and has had such a short career, he is the first and only manager to win the sextuplet so i personally believe he should be classed among the greats, but not quite yet the greatest.

kev88

Xavi,iniesta and puyol are all at the tail end of their careers

Iniestas like 28? got atleas 5 more years at the very top

I have always see pep was lucky inthat he inherited a great team rather then build it where as sir Alex built his teams and with the exception of Porto mourinho had money to spend at other clubs so could easily build a good team however I agree mourinho is a class manager

Hi ed, a wee contradiction there Jose mourinho has never been tested, every club hes been at have been huge or/and has been backed with cash, would he be successful in say david moyes or tony pulis's jobs? and look at paul lamberts achievments at carrow rd, ,.,.kbarry {Ed007's Note - How has Mourhino never been tested? CL with Porto, winning leagues and trophies in Engand and then managing Inter Milan before winning the league with Real Madrid against the 'best football team ever' in Barca this year. I think that is a good enough test for any manager to be proud of. Would Davie Moyes be a good manager at Real Madrid? Could Tony Pullis manage Inter. You can compare any manager to any other, until Guardiola goes to a club, whether with money or an eye for a player or his coaching (maybe try mixing all three) totally turns it around and wins things there will always be questions hanging over him. I actually fail to see the debate.........I would much rather go to meet God above as a Brian Clough or Bobby Robson than Guardiola right now. Legends is a word used far too often these days and is a pet peeve of mine, if Bobby Robson was still here and he told Pep to sit down and shut up, he would. Men like that like that have forgot more about football than we will ever know. Mourinho was Bobby Robson's translator at Barca, look what he learnt?? I can't believe I'm arguing with CFC fans about this, if anyone compares Pep to Jock Stein I swear I will ban them!!! We look for the same thing 'the Celtic way' or 'Celtic minded' in our manager and in our teams.........they have great success with us but can't do a job anywhere else (Google the 'record' Billy McNeill holds in England?) and you will see. Until it is 'Pep's club' there will always be doubts.} }

But at Chelsea and Madrid mourinho has millions to spend so could have easy built a winning team although it takes a good manager to get the team to gel guardiola inherited a good team but also made good signings aswel as bad but has got barca playing his way and he's won 13 out of 16 competitions he's competed in with another one still to come plus won 6 trophies in a Calender year the first time that's been done he is obviously good enuf however I would like to see what he has to offer another big team l {Ed007's Note - Guardiola did not get Barca playing his way, they play the Barca way and are taught it from a very young age, it goes back to the days of Cruyff etc and the Dutch principle of Total Football from the 70's.
The French are trying to revolutionise football. There was a discussion once (between top football tacticians) where it was decided that the only time formations could be considered fixed was at kick off. There is a guy currently at Clairefontaine who for maybe 20 years has been studying if and how different formations are applied. He advocates and teaches that certain sides (he cites Barcelona, Chelsea, Ajax and Kashima Antlers) that have achieved varying levels of success have actually now reverted to something between no formation at all and the Metodo approach and that strict formations should be a thing of the past. He wants to see intelligent players that can adapt as the game changes and this is what is being taught to the French kids who are seen as the future of the game in France.}

I do agree with u ed also, after reading your comment directly after my post, I think once he goes to a team as it hurts me to say like Jose to Chelsea, they were good but he made them successful, he had basically limitless money but you can make major mistakes with that amount of money.

Fair play ed, always enjoy the friendly debate from yourselves and other Bhoys too.

Cumby Bhoy {Ed007's Note - It's all just opinions Cumby, how boring would it be if we all agreed?}

He was a brilliant player, but give me those players and money and would give you the la liga

Ed.you did not answer how long it took for Sir Alex to win his first title at Utd? If say Pep does go to Liverpool will he be given that long by his doubters (which seem to be most on here) to turn things around or will they expect instant one season success ?

I'm not comparing him to the list you have given but who do you compare him to ? Please tell me who you compare Barca's 41yrs old most successful Manager/coach to ? Mrs E {Ed007's Note - I doubt any manager would be given the same time as AF was at any club, but it was 26 years (1967) since Utd won the league until his first (after 6 years) but he was winning other trophies and changing the entire set up of the club, he came close to being sacked in 91 but winning the FA Cup and the influence of Matt Busby helped him to keep his job. Part of the problem is that, as you say, fans demand instant success at the bigger clubs right away. Man Utd have always been a massive club, until Ferguson took over they were on the slide as a footballing force, like LFC are right now, they 'deserve' to be in the upper echelons of football but have been slipping down the way for far too long I would have Pep in the same bracket as AVB or a young Jose, they are lauded as the best young coaches around but until they can prove they can do it under differing circumstances outside their comfort zones. I would 'like' to see Pep given 5 years at LFC to see what he can do with a big club that is on it's knees.}

Ed iwould never put pep in same breathe as jock stein or for that matter jose, yes he done well two seasons in a row in europe by keeping the nucleas of a very good team etc,would we have won european cup if we had won eufa the year before?i personally think jose at 10m a year is overrated and as i say look at every club hes been at all big hitters with cash(porto apart)he spent what £250/300m did he won cl?, and also ed your the first celtic supp i know whos also a supporter of royal madrid,.,.kbarry

So have I 'won' the argument Ed lol. Were you too harsh on Pep ? Its not his 'fault' he was the manager of Barcalona and I think its fair play to him that he has decided to test himself elsewhere after his holiday. He could easily have stayed in his comfort zone. Mrs E {Ed007's Note - I never said he was a bad manager (not like a woman to misread something, I thought you could all multi task so well ;-) All I said was that he wasn't one of the best managers ever at this moment in time, he may well go onto be, but he may not. Of course you can say you 'won' the argument, I know women need to know that, and I wouldn't want you getting all hormonal while making a Sunday dinner :-)

05 May 2012 20:02:34
I knew this was going to happen, all these idiots asking daft questions. News about to break, when we changed the company registration back in 94 . The rules divtated we needed to reapply for admission to league. We didnt. Apparently we have been playing in the to level of scottish football as an unregisteted club for 18 years. {Ed007's Note - This has been covered umpteen times, even the English eds are questioning how thick Rangers fans are who are STILL going on about it. Sorry for the cut and paste from my notes. See if anyone can't understand this, it's probably better you just leave them alone, the will adopt a cat one day and find another friend:

The Celtic Football and Athletic Company Ltd

I think when you have been asked the same question about six times in a few days it’s worth explaining the issue here. If a football club is liquidated it’s finished. Continuity with its history and records ends. This is not the same as a football company changing its name.

Celtic was established as a sporting club at a meeting in a church hall in November 1887, in many ways, no different than a million other football, karate and badminton clubs. It subsequently registered with the SFA in 1888. In April 1897 it incorporated as a private limited company, registering as The Celtic Football and Athletic Company Ltd at Companies House. It was the 3487 th company to register in Scotland and was given the incorporation number SC003487.

In 1994 the company became a public limited company and changed its name to Celtic PLC but, of course, remained the same company, with the same incorporation number and retained the same registration with the SFA. You can check our corporate history, from incorporation in 1879, to name change in 1994 to our most recent annual return, dated 31 December 2011 (or whatever year), at Companies House.

On the same day Celtic changed its name to Celtic PLC, Fergus McCann changed the name of an off the shelf company, securing the old trading name ‘The Celtic Football and Athletic Company Ltd’, which is fully owned by Celtic PLC, but is not registered as a football club. I assume this was to secure the old name for the club and to protect it from potential abuse.

Celtic football club, always have been, always will be.

I think if youtake the rules as written, we are fecked, it could mean everything since 94 doesnt exist and we need to apply to the league. Hope the **** have not clocked this. {Ed007's Note - What part of my note did you not understand? It is a completely different scenario. Believe it or not I do actually sometimes know what I am talking about.}

Ed the post above is obviously from a minger from the other side of the city. Pay him no notice. The fact he couldn't follow ur very clear, to the point and incitefull post should have been the give-away.

@ op/post 2. I am a Rangers fan but I will try and break it down for you so you can sleep easy at night. You sound a tad stressed! The cases of both clubs are similar in a way (so I can understand your confusion) but completely different at the same time. You have nothing to worry about. Celtic have, throughout their ENTIRE history as a PLC, retained the same incorporation number as well as retaining their registration with the SFA (which pre-dated the incorporation number by 9 years). They have been technically insolvent but were never, at any point, liquidated. The only way that could change is if Celtic actually ended up in liquidation in the future and were forced to form a newco for which they would have to re-register with Companies House and receive a different incorporation number. ONLY AT THIS POINT WOULD THEY HAVE TO RE-REGISTER WITH THE SFA AS A DIFFERENT CLUB AS THE ORIGINAL ONE WOULD NO LONGER EXIST. This has not happened, they simply changed the name of the company in 1994. Companies changing name is common practice in the business world, the important thing in this regard is the unbroken use of the same registration number with the SFA.

If my team, Rangers, are forced to form a newco just now then we would, for example, lose the history which in reality would remain attached to the oldco in footballing terms (despite recent claims to the contrary) if it is subsequently liquidated instead of merging back with the newco. Under the hybrid plan (two companies operating and registered at the same time which is probably the point causing you most confusion), the only way we can realistically retain the history of the club is to keep the oldco in existence (the one currently registered with the SFA) until it is stable enough financially to receive the newco under its umbrella. The merging part is actually reasonably common within big businesses, think about one larger company taking over a smaller one. The larger one (oldco in this case) retains its original incorporation number and the smaller one (newco with a different number) would effectively no longer exist as a separate entity and would lose its history. In footballing terms Rangers (under whatever new name) WOULD have to re-register with the SFA and, like a company losing its incorporation number, lose its history. I know, I go on worse than Evingu does, lol. I hope you are still with me.

Fergus McCann created the new NON footballing registered company (the hybrid would contain two footballing companies as I understand it, which is confusing me somewhat but that is definitely for another day) probably for the reasons that Ed007 stated (I can't think of a better one) as, theoretically, anyone could then have registered the name The Celtic Football and Athletic Company Ltd as a new business (with a different incorporation number - the important part here in comparison to Celtic PLC) and traded in anyway it deemed fit (potentially open to abuse as Ed intimated). The business/trading history, as I said above, remains attached to the incorporation number and not the company name in this instance. Similarly, and most importantly for you, the SFA registration was also retained by Celtic PLC (the holders of the correct incorporation number) and did not follow the original club name to the newco (which has never been registered with the SFA) as you seem to think from reading your post. As I said: you have nothing to worry about.

A. I hope I have got it correct Ed? The hybrid idea is pretty complicated and in trying to compare the two scenarios I started to get myself confused as I was typing it, maybe I should book a visit to the local cat shelter, lol!

B. I also hope it was easy for you to follow original poster (if Ed confirms it correct at least) and helps you understand why the two cases are similar yet entirely different?

Brian {Ed007's Note - Sounds well explained to me Brian. One thing I have wondered and nobody else has answered me is this. (Although it is just a thought I had) If the oldco is put into incubation under a CVA and Miller moves the 'good parts' to a newco, the oldco will still be owned by Craig Whyte (if he won't sell his shares), although they will be basically worthless under the CVA. When the CVA is paid off and the oldco becomes solvent again then isn't it Craig Whyte that will benefit most financially from this? The incubated oldco would now be solvent and he would still own it to sell during any merger with a tidy profit. It is just a thought, I am not even sure if what I am saying is possible but until Whyte agrees to sell his shares I don't see anyway realistically of Rangers coming through this. The newco will need to cover the CVA, HMRC, Ticketus as well as funding the setting up and funding of the newco. Or am I miles away?}

Is the writer of the above post just to thick to understand basic grammer the facts are ther well done ed.

Brian....................... {Ed007's Note - Brian that post wasn't aimed at you mate. It was just the way the posts came through.}

Thanks Ed007 but I knew that it was aimed at the writer of the second post. If it was word perfect then I would not have had an issue with what he had said but to write a sentence containing such poor 'grammer' (still cracks me up!) himself whilst questioning the level of someone else's intelligence was too much for me and I had to defend the second poster out of principle. I am a student teacher, published author and poet, and was previously a moderator on a literary site where I helped aspiring writers to garner a better understanding in relation to structuring sentences, etc. They had tremendous creativity and themes and were simply struggling to communicate them effectively. Currently 1 in 7 adults in the UK are officially illiterate and one of my aims in life is to help people communicate and construct their arguments more clearly than they do before I become involved with them in a working capacity. I am appalled at the abuse of the written word, not just on this site but on all forums in general. However, following Mrs E's chastising of yourself for 'correcting' another poster I have bit my tongue and remembered that it is a football site at the end of the day. This guy had it coming though! Sorry for the rant, I shall reign myself in a bit in future, lol.

Brian {Ed007's Note - None of us bother with spelling or grammar or print anything slagging it off, it can put people off posting for fear of ridicule. It is lazy spelling and text speak that annoys me, there is no need for it. As long as the post is readable it's fine. Wee Pat is obviously exempt from this on the basis he is a headbanger.}

05 May 2012 16:59:55
It seems tha Bill Millars local tv station have taken an interest in RFCs unsavioury history .......feel free to send your thoughts to their twitter account @WRCB .........TTTS

A lot of Irish Americans among others will be disgusted by the interest he has shown towards an organisation that did not employ players and staff because of their religious believes and may well avoid his trucking business as a result.

05 May 2012 14:51:54
just watched that joke of a football team there and they don`t even do "turning up" for the last time in their teams history. walking the GREEN MILE comes to mind,kb-bhoy

But if you read the article on Rangers Media they had an attendance of over 50000 No wonder their books are in a mess they clearly can't count lol

Lots of empty seats around the ground. Lets make sure there are lots of empty seats around any ground that supports a newco walking into the SPL!

05 May 2012 11:09:34
Well the war for the hearts and minds of rangers fans has started.Once again it seems that the Record has decided to apply the same kind of reporting used in the Craig Whyte "fakeover".This seems to involve lots off fluffy pieces and flattering words, but lacking in anything resembling proper journalism.We now have a "stunning" American beauty queen almost thirty years younger than Mr Miller,a $2m beach side property and the use of the word "tycoon".Mr Miller is a Harley Davidson riding,Vietnam code breaking real life nephew of Uncle Sam!He has a salary of around $300k, but this is his pocket money we are told,and Bill and Becky are a glamorous couple.So thats lovely.Becky also appeared in the film" Shining water" with Bill the executive producer,And in 2008 appeared at a Florida rodeo sponsored by Miller Industries.All lovely stuff.And of course there is the standard Record "a source said",was Jim Traynor not banging on about transparency last week?So who is the source then? It's not as if they slagged Miller and Wife off is it? And onto the paper that championed Whyte The Sun! They seem to be using the shy and retiring mccoist to get gers fans onside.After "eighty sleepless nights" ally has his sparkle back,i would suggest that after eighty sleepless nights you might be dead,but on we go.This "true figurehead and tower of strength for the players" slept soundly after "tycoon"(that word again) Miller was named preferred bidder.Ally then goes on to praise the jardine led march on Hampden, claiming NINE THOUSAND attended.Well perhaps if you had went ally(wonder why he was not there,does not fit the ally agenda?) you would see that when jardine gave his speech there was around 2-3 thousand( great vid of the rabble on you tube) no more.Mccoist then says he will feel better when he sees the "look in his eyes" so we must assume that Paul Murray,Brian Kennedy,Bill Ng and even Whyte himself all passed this Eye test as ally publicly backed them all.Both,and i use this term in it's lightest sense,newspapers, seem content to regurgitate the same spiel from last year,remind me,how did that work again?Now Mr Miller's cash is his own business,but rangers might need an owner with plenty in reserve to stave off any unexpected bills that might arrive.Why no analysis of his business dealings as he has been selling chunks of Miller Inc for a few years? His company seems to be a good steady performer regardless of upturns or downturns in the US markets.Why would you sell bits of a cash cow? If gers fans wait for the Scottish press they might never find out...............green jhedi

I always enjoy reading your posts Jhedi

It does seem strange that someone from the other side of the world who has no interest in football or rangers would all of a sudden buy the club when its on its knees. i wonder who tipped him off.someone must have and you have to ask yourself if it was someone with the best interests of the club at their hearts or was it someone who saw an opportunity! transferring assets to a new company sounds like a shady immoral idea to me!

Look at the game at ibrox. will they still claim full house. new motto we dont turn up.

Tam Cowans page today was excellent LOL......DH

Green jhedi
if i ever start a news paper your are my chief sports writer ...............LOL.

27% of their business was from American Armed Forces and that will be will end as their forces go home . His incubator plan is how the Obama administration "saved" the American car industry .

Paddy Malarkey

God I can't believe I posted that comment about Cowan ,only seen his big comments about Rangers didn't see his vile wee dig at the kids . Have already e mailed a complaint about it to his so called rag .Feel so angry that I missed the remarks he made. Fat B@@@@d sack him......DH

Yet another good post GJ.

05 May 2012 09:25:07
SPL STATS SINCE 2000.
2000/01 Celtic champs by 15 points
2001/02 Celtic champs by 18 points
2002/03 Rangers champs by G.D.
2003/04 Celtic champs by 17 points
2004/05 Rangers champs by 1 point
2005/06 Celtic champs by 17 points
2006/07 Celtic champs by 12 point
2007/08 Celtic champs by 3 points
2008/09 Rangers champs by 4 points
2009/10 Rangers champs by 6 points
2010/11 Rangers champs by 1 point
2011/12 Celtic champs by 21 points
and still counting.
Rangers record against us has not
been that good. When we won our
titles we won them with style and
will continue to do so. CM

Yeah and in 2003 and 2005 we were the better team and threw it away.even in 2009 if we had beaten hibs at easter road second last game of the season we would have went into the last game ahead with a home game to play.we could and should have racked up a load of titles in a row!

1 point or 1 goal or 21points? The history books show only the winners not the margin in which they won

Should of, could of, DIDN'T. No point talking about if and buts.

Assume 'Should of, could of, DIDN'T. No point talking about if and buts' is a blue nose so as a retort, how is this:

Should of paid your tax's
Shouldn't have used tax money for other purposes.
Could have done the right thing and fessed up, taken responsibility and the sanctions that go along with it.

The history books will show this!

Davey

Guys calm down - Gers are only guilty of not paying their way THIS season and have been punished for it! We will take our medicine as and when any decision on the BTC is made. And as for "Rangers record against us has not been that good", is that really a road you want to go down? Whoever finishes 1st deserves to be champions end off! {Ed007's Note - Rangers have accepted liability of a £24 million tax bill for using EBTs. It is at the tribunal (appeal) stage because they are contesting associated fines and penalties.}

Ed007 - You are right they have been hit with a £24 mil fine. On appeal they might have the fine reduced or increased - no one knows for sure, but we all have our own views on it. Like I said if found guilty we should be punished, no excuses. If Celtics hierarchy had not mismanaged in the last few years they would be celebrating 4 in a row right now, instead of being overjoyed at winning 1. Spending outwith your means is financial suicide and Rangers are rightly suffering now but surely Mr Lawell must look at himself as despite his boasts about his club he was unable to match a club thas has stumbled from one embarassment to another ovewr the last four years. {Ed007's Note - I would rather be in our current situation than yours. For right, wrong or whatever reasons CFC didn't spend money, Rangers were spending money they knew they shouldn't have been, it should have been going to service the debt. You should maybe worry more about why after winning 3IAR, (why were you stumbling from one embarrassment to another? Did Rangers fans believe the club was in financial difficulty but wouldn't admit it?), Rangers couldn't see out another season without entering administration. I think CFC and PL have done the best for the long term future of the club.}

04 May 2012 17:13:25
I see there are reports that Emilio Izaguirre could be at the olympics while we are playing Champions League qualifiers. I hope this is not true as over the last 2 games he has proved (if any proof was needed) that he is an integral part of our team and the way we play. It would be a major loss for us to have to do without him for what I'm sure will be very tough matches. If it comes to it i hope the wee man makes the right decision. I will respect whatever that decision is but will be disappointed and I'm sure the team will suffer for it. It wouldn't change my opinion of the guy either way, he's first class. Can you shine any light on the possibility of a fixture clash ed?

Shuggybhoy1888

I see what you mean Shuggy, he would be missed. But at the same time, i wouldn't want him to feel under any pressure to miss out on an opportunity like playing at the Olympics (i know that's not what you're trying to do, btw).

If it came to it, i'd be happy enough with Mulgrew left-back, and Rogne and Loovens in the middle (there's probably always a risk with Loovens, but i reckon he's been playing pretty well recently so he's earned it). We should have a few other options for centre-back, too.

Glenn {Ed007's Note - It will also only matter to us if he is still a CFC player......}

Ed, are you suggesting Emilio might be moving on? I think if Kayal or Izzy had had good seasons there would be interest, especially from down south, but injuries have probably put that interest on hold.
db {Ed007's Note - Man Utd have already officially registered their interest in Izaguirre, he was to be watched in every game he played, then when he was injured, Utd wanted regular updates on his progress. I think it could be more down to whether he has regained full fitness and form. The scouts were happy last weekend.}

I would be surprised by that transfer mainly due to his lack of game time this season. Presumably if Man Utd are showing interest then there must be others. I hope he stays as I think he needs at least one more good season with us. Much prefer Mulgrew and Ledley to play centrally as well.
db