Celtic Rumours Archive June 16 2012

16 Jun 2012 23:04:22
What a sham the game in Scotland could become, a team that won titles while owing member clubs money for players and small business's fortunes are now debt free and could be in the SPL or at worse SFL 1,can somebody please tell me the point of other clubs and supporters playing by the rules if there is no punishment, do the SFA and SPL think we are all this stupid, what next give Ben Johnston back his gold medal.

Vatman.

As far as i am aware rfc won no title last season.so when did they win titles whilst owing other clubs money? rfc did not owe any spl team overdue money until craig whyte took over.they had actually reduced their debt by nearly half whilst winning the previous 3 titles and had kept all payments on time and up to date whilst doing so. then whyte took over and started withholding the paye tax and ni. Does the facts not matter any more?just say it and it must be true. {Ed007's Note - Didn't they owe Rapid Vienna for Jelavic, didn't Rangers win the league in 2010-11 with him playing.......just saying........}

I believe he sed they didn't owe clubs money until Craig whyte took charge n when rangers won that title Craig whyte was the owner or did you not pay attention to what he sed ed {Ed007's Note - Another person who's reading skills aren't the best, can't your mum help you?

'As far as i am aware rfc won no title last season.so when did they win titles whilst owing other clubs money?'

So Rangers didn't win the league the previous season and have paid RV in full even though they have sold the player on? Thanks for clearing that up}

They didn't keep all tax payments up-to-date and on time did they?

I don't believe they have done that for a good 10 years!

Op i think you are mistaken? The team that owed money is gone. Finito. As so many celtic fans keep telling us. The team applying for newco status is that - a newco - with no history.

16 Jun 2012 22:02:31
Great shift Sammy. I know you've been asleep for the last 180 minutes, but it seems the giant awoke and played his heart out. Well done Gorgeous George, well done Greece!

GoldCoastBhoy

16 Jun 2012 21:39:08
Charles Green confirms Newco does not carry over history:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0k0IkDTPQWU&feature=related

Thanks Chico.

K-Dot. {Ed007's Note - Come on K-Dot, what does he know, he is telling lies!! ;-)

Sorry Ed, forgot, just can't keep up, must be all the lies he's telling. lol.

K-Dot.

What part of the word liquidation do ppl not get. They, the 1872 mob ARE DEAD.The next trophy TRFC win will be the 1st is that clear enough Unless you want to start cheating again.Come on bhoys dont trust anyone,i bet in say 5 years the sc*m press here will carry on as if this never happened.GET READY FOR CIVIL WAR. timmy tim.

16 Jun 2012 19:27:17
If the voting system in SPL changes to 8-4 and gate receipts are shared 50/50 how can this be fair when the likes of Celtic with the main support and the upkeep of a larger stadium to upkeep be a fair system? Are we to subsidise all the poorly supported away teams
Robbie-d

Answer is simple. If they go for this then boycott away games

Ed...I think I missed something recently. Where is all this talk coming from with 50/50 gate receipts ? Is been a blur of a past few days lol ~ Mrs E {Ed007's Note - I don't know. The clubs have already said there is no plans to discuss gate sharing.}

You were advised to be careful what you wished for?
Take away 50,000 gate receipts from the game eighteen times a season, this is what happens.
Did you really expect anything else?
If it is purely for the benefit of the game,why wasn't it done years ago.
The demise of RFC, means dissolution of the Old Firm,bed buddies for years,and the only reason it wasn't changed.
But wait,i'm forgetting how financially insignificant our fans are.Silly me.
P.O.B.

I am sure that Peter Lawell will be already on the case with this one. He will have something up his sleeve.

Hoopey67

P.O.B....you can't use that as an argument not to punish something or someone. We're too big/Scottish football needs us blah, blah. That isn't an argument to justify or defend a wrongdoing. There was folk that probably needed Al Capone, look how that turned out, Alcrataz I believe & the world survived. Mrs E

Gate receipts cant be split 50/50 without the consent each club. that is like saying shirt sales or merchandise money being distributed through the league. it is the fiscal rights of the stadium operating club. away fans get a share only from the away tickets sold and will remain that way. If the other clubs try to force this then Celtic will take it to the Court of Arbitration for Sport who will refuse to rule on fiscal policy and they will pass it to the normal courts

I'd agree with it if it were distributed pro-rata based on Home Away supporters attending. If Celtic had 40000 and Kilmarnock 500 then that's how the gate receipts should be split. Similarly if we went to Rugby Park and they had 1500 home supporters and we had 2500 then that's how the gate receipt should be split. That way you would be financially supporting your team home and away.

Not using it as an argument Mrs E.
I'm well documented on both sites,welcoming an inquiry into the cause and the main perpetrators of RFC's demise.
What i am saying is that it's not rocket science that this was going to happen.
Hollow statements now from the Celtic fans who disagreed that the old firm need each other.
The old firm stuck together to veto these proposals under the old 11-1 voting system. Do you think Dunfermline or Dundee will vote as RFC did?
If Jim Spence's article is proven to bear fruit,Celtic will be the next big fat target on the leeches horizon. Just watch. And Celtic fans maybe surprised whch way Mr Lawell and Co vote. No brainer for me. Not saying it's right,but what ever is in business when financial obligations are at stake?
P.O.B.

P.o.b....why are you even thinking of what will happen to Celtic? you come on hear to say, see you need us and you are trying to rub it in our face? well shows you for who you are, so shallow, but dont talk about our club and directors because you are tainted with your old ones and we know PL will do the BEST for our club(not the "best" yous were use to by cheating) and i think ppl will be more inclined to work out a deal with us because now we hold all the cards, as we could just say bye, like bye bye ra nkgrs

The guy with the pro rata thing is spot on, no way I'd be up for having Killie bring 100 fans to Parkhead and leave with 30,000 worth of our fans money.

hate the wee clubs moaning about us having money and wanting hand outs, start supporting your club ffs! maybe then you will have good enough cash to play with. {Ed007's Note - Why should we subsidise these clubs, look at the crowds that suddenly appear at cup finals etc. It is like the wee guy at the end of the road that always got a ticket for derby games at Ibrox because he 'knows somebody'. You never see when it was Falkirk on a Wednesday night in December apart from him watching you from his window as you swim up the street half cut on the way home knowing you have work the next day!!}

I like most supporters never go to an away match. Average home gate say 45000 average away following 5000.
I watch two teams in a match while only paying to watch one. This is extremely unfair and has contributed to the lack of competition.
If the SPL was of a better standard we could attract better players more TV revenue and sponsorship. It would also increase our chances European.

You'll have to excuse my ignorance P.O.B, I haven't ready any articles/blogs since the season finished, not even Alex Thomson. What did Jim Spence have to offer in his tuppence worth ? 'Hollow statements' from Celtic fans...how ? Mrs E

Would a 50/50 split be beneficial to other teams I would imagine the split would be on tickets sold and not season ticket sales if this is the case then would other teams not suffer especially if Celtic were to pack out away grounds get 50 % of ticket money also Celtic don't always get a full house it could end up costing the smaller teams more

Celtic hold all the cards how exactly the other teams will all vote to get the systems changed and to get greater financial stability and there ain't nothing Celtic can do as they will be out voted

17 Jun 2012 14:09:57
Try this Mrs E.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18471197
Peter Lawell started the hollow claims of Celtic not needing Rangers.
The Pied Piper followers readily jumped on the bandwagon,try the search button's on these sites. What they failed to distinguish from PL's statement Mrs E,was that he was put in an impossible position with the question.What else could he say.Granted Celtic don't need Rangers to survive financially per say,but their product will diminish drastically.
I believe Celtic only cleared �800,000 profit last year.
If Jim Spence's article is correct,they'll not only have to downsize considerably,they will then be asked to fork out a higher percentage of gate receipt money to the other clubs.
There's also the as yet unresolved mystery concerning S*Y TV money.
Celtic will be affected drastically by this,while the other clubs profit.
P.O.B.

Hollow suggests no substance to the claims, if thats your opinion fine but its not shared by everyone. I think the word in your post 'profit' says it all really. When was the last time/year Rangers were in profit (I have no idea so if it was recently, then I believe you).

I'm 'blogged out' with this circus of a carry-on and fans cherry picking what they want to believe.

Why will the product be 'drastically' affected can you show me the projected figures POB. Thanks Mrs E

16 Jun 2012 18:25:23
I think celtic should withdraw the offer for big forster as he is dragging it out too long! we should offer C.Gordon a contract depending on a medical of course. i really think he can put his career back on track and think celtic would be the perfect team to do it at, i believe he can get back to his best, and become a great signing, and would also save £2m what we can put towards a quality CB. what do u think Ed bud?

BarryBhoy {Ed007's Note - If Gordon was going to stay fit I would take him instead of Forster.}

Evening guys , i for one dont rate forster just not commanding enough for me and thats 2 years noe weve had him on loan if he really was commited it would be a done deal , let him go get in someone now , yes i know what you mean abt gordon ed but no playser gaurenteed to stay fit

Take gordon instead of forster, WHY? wants he done? big fraser will only get better , fraser has done nothing wrong since he joined the champions, last season he was excellent, gordon a good keeper theres no doubt but his injury history is to big a risk, legend 67,

Personally I think the man to fill the no.1 jersey would be myself, I would cost �2m less than FF, be about �20k p/w cheaper and also less injury prone than CG.....if only John Parks scouting network extended to Hamilton powerleague

MikeyBhoy

No thanks Mikeybhoy,i remember Ian Andrews.

Jungle Bhoy.

I'm a big fan of Forster, have been ever since his first game with Celtic. I'd love him to sign on permanently, but I agree that this is dragging on too long. I'm sure there is more to it than what we see but I just wish he would make a decision.

I have to say also, that when Gordon was at Hearts I thought he was the best goalie in the UK, unfortunately injuries have changed that. If he can stay injury free then he could be a great acquisition.

So the ball is firmly in FF's court. Make a decision soon, if no the go for Gordon and pray he stays injury free!

I don't want anyone at Celtic who isn't willing to commit to a decent future, if guys like Forster think they are too big for us to demand money, or Wanyama thinks 1 season earnes him an EPL move then let them leave, I want dedicated Celtic players playing for the club, not their own pockets. It's not like we have them on minimum wage.

Bhoys i like big forster too but think its too risky waiting for him to make up his mind, we could end up losing out on him and gordon, if Forster is not dedicated to celtic then we should be looking else where!

BarryBhoy

16 jun 2012 17:47:54
i think if we got around the 10 mark for big vic and 7 for ki that would be a great bit business think about it vic and kayal very similar players so wont really be missed and ki doesnt really get a game as joe and broony been great this year so not really a miss there either and if the board give back say even 10m o that to spend then theres no other man in the world a would give it to than john park hes the guy thats found these players. the man is an absolute genious at finding players so a wouldnt worry bout replacements #injohnparkwetrust. MikeyBhoy27

GOOD CALL Mikey Bhoy27 but we can still get a bit better hailhail timmy tim.

Big vic will not be leaving for 10million - nothing near it. No player will be leaving the spl for big money unless they start to prove themselves on the international/european level {Ed007's Note - Like McGeady.....

WELL SAID ED TOOK THE WORDS OUT MY MOUTH. MIKEYBHOY27

Post 2 sounds like a bitter fan of the newco. If Celtic value Vic at 10m then there is NO reason for him to go for any less ( we don't need the money ) personaly I would rather sell only Ki and keep Vic, Broony and Ledley.....and if we really need some extra cash to push for a top CB or CF then sell Kayal ( to tempremental for me )

Like it or not we are a club who will look for gems, bring them in, give them a platform to prove themselves and then sell them on at a profit.

I would be far more concernd if we lost John Park ( rumers that a few big clubs have been sniffing around him )

JGD

The way things are at the moment we are in no hurry to sell players. We should
wait until after the European games to re
assess the squad. We must remember that even the best players get injured and I would love the team to get to the last 16 as we did twice under Gordons rule. CM.

16 Jun 2012 15:47:40
what about shiels of kilmarnock suggesting a secret ballot on the newcos application to the spl, kenny i think youve been attending to many secret society meetings , ffs grow a pair,if you want the newco in the spl then have the b***s to say so and if you dont , same goes , i just hope lawell marches into the meeting , lets get the voting startedand f***althabetical order were voting first and were voting NO!!!!!!!!

I would not let them in any league Finish the cheats for good..jc

No to newco end off, if i start a club tomorrow can i apply to go straight into the spl? answer is no. Nor should this lot just because they bought a ground that used to owned by a team that played in the spl and used that old teams name and put the word THE in front of it. maccabhoy

What school you go to? "A"berdeen would be before "C"eltic.

But it should be transparent. {Ed007's Note - Maybe that is why the OP said f**k alphabetical order......Just a hunch.......}

Should have asked which school I went to then cause I obviously can't read! {Ed007's Note - :-)

I agree that The Newco **** should be sent to div 3 but think the wee teams will cut a deal on voting and allow them to stay.

What makes you so sure lowwell will vote the way you all asume? i can remember him gettin all worked up lately when league voting restructuring was mentioned. so if he votes rfc out he is voting for celtic having no veto on any future votes as no other team is going to back him up? Hope it is all transparent as a can see a lot of unhappy haters. {Ed007's Note - What makes you so sure that you can assume no other club would back CFC in any future voting?}

Ed that is what i ment, cheers

Lol I know rangers need punished but to kick them out is also hurting our selfs! Maybe our fans should stop being so narrow minded and open Their eyes to the big picture and realise both teams need each other......Brian

BRIAN, i dont get that , they need each other part, lawell has said the opposite , and a further point , what if and i know its a big if , but what if the newco start in the spl but due to sanctions and such were relegated, what would happen then?

I agree with all that but i would miss the old firm matches and title race big time lads, europe only lasts so long in a season unless something really special happened in the europa league given we dropped into that. I will miss those horrible, sectarian reprobates. It wont be the same, but as far as sporting integrity goes they should be run out of town, there can be no argument about that. It will get boring, if it was the 80'a or early 90's when the financial and playing talent gap wasnt so huge then i would be hopeful that someone else will start to challenge and their fans would pack said teams ground and were backed by a chairman who wants to have a crack at the title but it is just not going to happen, i mean if this had been 5-6 years ago that crazy b*stard at hearts romanov would have loved to see rangers go and he would have pushed the boat out to challenge but times have changed and the economy is t1ts up and they (hearts) are in a mess aswell. I would like to say though that no matter who we are playing and how many points we win the league by and however boring it may get, i will be at celtic park every home game to see my team and will always renew my season ticket. Hail Hail

Ed you know as well as i do why no one would back celtic in veto vote 1)the other clubs are already trying to overturn the 10/2 club veto vote so as the tv money is shared out more,but you think clubs will then veto themselves getting a bigger share of the money and not do away with the 10/2 veto system? {Ed007's Note - Wouldn't it depend on what the vote was on before club's decided what way to vote, or do you just think people will vote against CFC for the sake of it?}

I agree with giving them a bigger share of the t.v money. It would help to ease the other clubs financial debts and for the few who are financially sound they would have more funds to spend on strengthening their squad and in doing so make the league more competitive which is going to be a problem if they send the WATP mob down to the 3rd division

C'mon folks - we shouldn't be asking what school someone went to. The football team that did that are now dead.

K-Dot.

Ed by the very nature of rfc not being there to vote to keep the 10/2 veto vote then it wont exist therefor cfc vote is diluted. its not rocket science {Ed007's Note - And it is not rocket science that clubs vote whatever way it suits them. If clubs agreed with CFC on any proposal then they will vote that way, if they disagree they will vote that way. That is the whole point of a vote. Read back what you said, you said no club would vote to back CFC up, I said it would depend what the vote was on. Do you need everything explained in such detail, do I need to even explain to you what you are saying? According to you, if CFC proposed extending the league to 14 teams it wouldn't get passed because Rangers aren't there and every team would vote against CFC. It wouldn't be that at all, if you think that then you are deluded.}

Eh naw a think u need things pointed out can u not work it out?cfc and rfc have the overall say on things at the moment and control tv money as it only takes the two of them to agree for status quo on any vote and it stays the same however without rfc being there like u all expect lawell to demand they have no final say on ANY vote. that would explain lawell geting worked up when other clubs tried to alter voting system of late. like a said its not rocket science a thought u might be able to read between the lines as u keep assuming intellectual superiority on any subject here but no {Ed007's Note - Nobody mentioned TV money or CFC having final say on any vote? Not even you.... You said nobody would vote along with CFC, I said it depends on what the vote was on. I never said I expect anything from PL, I do expect other clubs to vote the way that suits their individual club, something you don't. My God this is hard work!!!! Read what you said...... Now you are throwing other equations into the mix, that was not your original point was it?}

Ed tv money distribution is what the vote restructuring is/was all about so my original point says why would lawell vote rfc out and do away with his final say as he along with rfc can at the moment protect cfc intrests. you then assume i think everyone will gang up on cfc at every vote-no i dont. i just think that to protect his major say he needs rfc as they have mutual intrest in keeping veto. of course clubs will vote with celtic if they want to on other matters but thats not what i posted about. you all asume lawell will waltz in and basically vote himself into a weaker position. {Ed007's Note - When was/is this vote you speak of?}

You should know when last one and next one is. {Ed007's Note - So should you. Good comeback BTW......cutting......}

Got to say ed the banter there between you and the poster about votes was smashing haha

To be fair ed his original argument was about league restructuring however he did then say any vote

Correct me if i'm wrong but alphabetical order would surely give aberdeen first vote {Ed007's Note - Go back and read the thread again.....slowly, especially the last part of the OP where he says this:

'lets get the voting startedand f***althabetical order were voting first and were voting NO!!!!!!!!'

It is even mentioned further down the thread as well.}

16 Jun 2012 14:54:46
Hi all, i read today that there was talk about puting the new gers into the first division so that sly spurts will show the spl games in a years time, now correct me if i'm wrong, but was it not all over the newspapers when the spl agreed a deal with sly the cash amount was poor, now all of a sudden we're jumping through hoops to please them. I say the sfa should do what they KNOW is right and send them to the bottom, who's to say sly won't offer less cash next time. I remember a few years back scottish football where talking about broadcasting their own football, maybe we could look into that. Any thoughts?

Sly have always had the final say in our game friday night football sunday afternoon they r driving people away from the stands

16 Jun 2012 11:41:37
Good day ed so just seen on sly that Rubin Kazan bid in excess of 6m for ki rejected! I'm glad to see that we are not selling our young talented squad at the first reasonable bid to come in! But if a club is willing to pay over that for ki then what is our valuation of wanyama? A lot more consistent and younger and better IMO! What sort of price would you think we would be looking for for those players? .......Brian {Ed007's Note - I think that a bid over £7 million for Ki would be accepted, as for Wanyama I would tell clubs the price starts at £10 million, take it or leave it.}

ED007, Brian I agree any offer over �7m for Ki take it.
As for Wanyama, I know these days players have more power, but Celtic have him on a 4 year contract so surely we can decide if he leaves, again yes I agree ED007 anything approaching �10m+ with add ons and a sell on clause then take it, but if I was his adviser I would be saying, stay and play in Champions League gain more experience (and exposure) and then much bigger clubs will come in Timalloy {Ed007's Note - Like I have said Tim, the talk of Wanyama leaving seems to be his agent looking for a pay hike for his client. I do think Wanyama has earned it and would like him to stay for another couple of years. If he keeps progressing the way he has we could have a genuine potential world class player on our hands, you don't get many of them in Scotland nowadays. If he catches the eye of an Italian, Russian or French team (PSG) they will pay what it takes to get the player, the EPL will always be looking for a bargain.}

I agree, over �7M for ki then we should accept. keep wanyama at all costs and offer him a pay rise...he does deserve it. however, we dont need to sell any players so if anyone wants big vic then we should start the bidding at �15M...he clearly is a talent but i would hate to see him leave parkhead. give him a pay rise and get fraser forster tied down too.

Ed how good is our club when a player like Ki cant get in it, 8mill plus sell on clause ithink would be the deal because just the selling of his top inKorea alone is worth that(i think we need to get rid of him soon to avoid the military service that he might have to do). the only thing im worried about is our depth and i know we have some of our reserves there but hope and would think we would go for another mid player to replace him.
as for Wanyama we need to make sure and convince him that staying is the best option cause if in CL we are in the group stage and he dominates ppl the big epl clubs would come in(as well as other leagues but with him saying epl is for him) like the manchester clubs(if he was in city i could see them just dominating), and we could be watching the first ever spl player to leave around 20mill. if we are having the same conversation next year then ooobhoy, the Celtic board are doing something great. {Ed007's Note - He doesn't have to do the national service for years yet. As long as he has completed 18 months by his 29th birthday.}

16 Jun 2012 08:47:47
hi ed ..do you think we will be better at the start of the season than we were last year everyone forgets how bad we were at the beginning of last season.i think it was down to fitness looking at some of the players running around with 2 stones overweight i am worried with the champion league qualifiers starting soon ...jc {Ed007's Note - I blame the tour of Australia JC. That is why I think flying to Philadelphia for the Real Madrid game is a mistake.}

Have to agree the trip to the USA is a thorn in the b*lls to an ideal preparation. Clearly dictated by money. Hopefully the good is that Real play a strong side to help Lennon evaluate his team and tactics before facing tough qualifying opponents. Few quid won't go a miss either will it. {Ed007's Note - I think CL qualification should be more important than dragging players on a long haul flight just for financial gain.}

I think so to. I hope they are fitter than they were at the start of last season or we are goin oot of chapions leauge first game..jc

Maybe we could make it a worthwhile trip Ed if we can come to some sort of agreement about any youngsters or fringe players Madrid might want to farm out?I agree the date could've been better tho.

Jungle Bhoy. {Ed007's Note - Or vice versa.....Paddy, Ronaldo and Higuain as Madrid's front three would be tasty :-)

16 Jun 2012 12:12:04
i wouldn't worry about 50/50 gate split. take ict for example , celtic get about 10 times the crowd they do, but celtic pay about 10 times more for rate utility bills etc and probably 40/50 tmes more on wages . all of this would have to be taken into account. celtic have i think about 50000 season ticket books , fans who pay to watch celtic , not the opposition. so if they are entitled to half of anything , it would be half of everything above the season ticket sales. because it is then you could say the extra 10,000 have gone because they want to see the opposition. ..bb ps nothing against ict just used them as a for instance.

16 Jun 2012 11:31:38
Celtic reject 6mil bid for Ki, hopefully get it up to 8mil

Chad

Would take 7m . But 8 would be good money . Bring in Mr Rhodes

He isn't even worth 6 million. We should have taken the money and spent the majority of it on a striker and/or centre half. I had a look at the stats and he hardly played a game during our unbeaten run. He isn't suited to British style, would be a star in Italy with passing ability.

He is worth what a club will pay . yes 6m would be good . But 7 or 8 would be better. The more money the better to invest in the team

16 Jun 2012 11:12:09
Celtic reject £6 million bid for Ki