Celtic Rumours Archive February 13 2013

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13 Feb 2013 23:37:54
I think there is a bigger issue to come out of last night. playing efe was a huge gamble but its one if i'm honest I would have took so i'm not angry with lennon over it. however I think the bigger issue is that there is other players who could have played who were 100% but lennon doesn't trust them at this level. guys like rogne in lennons eyes must not be up to it so it makes me wonder why he's there. I think we paid the price for not having an option lennon felt was up to it and that is something we will need to address in the summer

mk bhoy

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Just stop moaning. what is done is done. let us learn and move on. get a reality check. We punched above our weight to get to this level. There's always tomorrow.

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Im not having a go or moaning. I just think that efe was a doubt but we had to play him as we didn't have anyone else that we could trust at this level. I think if were honest it was a decision that could have went either way but ambrose looked jaded. I still think we played extremely well and didn't deserve the 3, 0. that one decision is what cost us but its a risk we had to take

mk bhoy

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13 Feb 2013 22:15:30
We rested 9 players on sat yet played efe that totally baffles me. don't forget Forrest also caused us a goal in barca. players and management need to have a good look at themselves. fair enough we played well in both barca games and the away game spartak. we play much btr as underdogs even most fans and players thot we could do submit against juve. many wake up calls do we need.

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13 Feb 2013 23:50:55
Stop talking p*** ya zoomer, were you the person that was sitting 3 seats away from me last night that stormed out when the 2nd goal went in, or were you one of the glory hunters that threw the scarf (they probably just bought 90 mins b4) away when 3rd went in. Juventus we were playing remember not some newly formed Scottish 4th tier team. . . Stevie

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If Celtic had won Efe, would'nt be even mention in this topic, Lennie did what he thought was right,

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Well said Stevie some of our supporter's really need to get a reality check, we play in the SPL ffs
Tambhoy

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13 Feb 2013 18:34:44
Just one thing to say about last nights game not going to criticise anyone on the pitch but why Joe Ledley wasn't playing is beyond totally baffled by that one don't know about anybody else?
MickL

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Totally agree mick he's been one of our most consistent players, and in my opinion would be one of the first names on my team sheet every week

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He gets overlooked to accommodate mulgrew in the big games

mk bhoy

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I have never played professional football nor coached any team so knowledge of the game is based on what I see and think. Lenny took a gamble with big Effe and it never paid off. I can live with that. But, I have to say that Ledley should be (for me) in the starting eleven every game. The guy gives 100% every game and is solid. IMO
TinyTim

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Definitely more effective than Mulgrew in midfield any day, also commons hit majority of set pieces so Mulgrew wasn't really needed for that matter
MickL

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Totally agree, buy one of the most rated up and coming midfielders in Joe Ledley yet leave him out for a very average over rated defender who at best should be a bench warmer!

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I have nothing against joe and never slate any celtic player but can anyone explain what it is joe brings to the team that makes everyone rave about him i'm not saying anything negative here I just don't see why all thw praise because I don't think he ever has a great command of the midfield again this isn't a pop maybe just need it pointed out and workrate is something but it isn't ability
thommyj

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14 Feb 2013 21:15:47
As well as having a terrific engine he very rarely misplaces a pass, very important in European games!
MickL

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Thommy just concentrate on him for the whole game, for me he get's into the box more than any other midfielder, his workrate is tremendous, and his covering of the back kick's position when Izzy is on the attack is good, he doe's not hide and look's for the ball at every opportunity. that's my opinion. he would be second on my teamsheet every game
Tambhoy

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Joe is a bit like Roy Keane without the aggressiveness, he does all the simple things, all the unseen work. It's only when he's missing that people realise what he brings to the table.

BadBhoy

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I agree that Ledley should have played, but to say that Mulgrew is only a benchwarmer is shockin mate, was outstanding last season and been pretty consistent this season. Would have played Charlie at the back with Super Joe in the midfield, shame about Efe though made a c**t ae that last 1

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Cheers tam will pay atention tommorow if he plays and thanks for not having a dig fo asking
hh
thommyj

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13 Feb 2013 16:20:27
Fairly annoyed with Lennons selection with efe Ambrose last nite, i'm not blaming the gaffer for the result but its common sense to know that efe shouldn't of played in such a crucial tie and they get paid big money to make these decisions,
I don't care how good efe said he was or was feeling but its no brainer as he had a terrible night and costed us 2 of the goals.
Juve didn't even play in my opinion and most of us know that 0-3 at PARKHEAD is un heard of.
Why couldn't he just have played a flat back 3 (lustig, Wilson, mulgrew)
And 2 wing backs which offer good cover and that way we would of handled Matri and vucinic a lot better.
Still think we can cause an upset if we get an early goal over there and get right in about them.

Greenbhoy01

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I would have played Efe if he was up for it and said he was ok. But I would have made the mistake also.
I would have taken him off on the fourth minute after that first goal though.
I think taking commons off was wrong.
Forrest should have come off or mulgrew.
Neil must shoulder some blame as Celtic manager being beaten 3-0 at home. But his team played good attacking football.

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I watched the game and Celtic in my opinion had 80% of the attacking play and were still beaten 0-3 by a very good team, Pirlo is just a class act and at 34/35, he made Brown look like a cart horse, the tie is over but to be beaten by a team of their calibre is not a disgrace, they play good teams every week, Celtic only play good teams in Europe.

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No chance, pirlo didn't even kick a ball last nite, 3 shots on target and 3 goals says enough. We were all over the top of them and I would certainly drop efe after that performance, no questions asked

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You did not leave a name but I disagree that Pirlo made Brown look like a carthorse, he got away from him once that I could see, was not impressed with Pirlo at all. He had a kick at Brown in front of the ref so was lucky to stay on the park
Tambhoy

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13 Feb 2013 16:04:09
After digesting the result and reading todays posts, I have a few points on last night.
Firstly, Ambrose - perhaps he shouldn't have been rushed back but it was Neil Lennon that ultimately picked him. His call. Also, I have often commented to Mrs Kbt that he reminds of Bougherra at times in the way he tries to play it out from the back - I was proved right last night! I'm sure he was playing full-back for Nigeria in the Nations cup? maybe Ed can confirm this but that may have been a factor in his performance?
Team selection: I might be controversial here and hindsight is great but I feel Neil went with his heart and tried to play for the fans. We have struggled to break down SPL teams at times never mind Juve and I have often said this season we are now a counter-attacking side. I feel he should have matched Juve up and looked for a draw - preferably for a nil-nil. Tried to keep the tie alive for the 2nd leg as we are scoring on the road. Don't get me wrong, we could still have lost nil 3 but hindsight is a great thing as I said.
Also the corners/penalties - we have scored a few goals this season (2 in the CL) from corners where Hooper stands right in front of the keeper. They had us sussed from all angles, but the early goal/mistake killed us. We chased the game and played right into their hands. I can handle getting pumped by a great side that play well - what pissed me off was handing the tie on a silver platter with black and white stripes to a team that never really had to work too hard (except the 2 up front who were excellent in their graft - but they smelled blood from our centre-halves).
In conclusion lads and lassies we cost ourselves last night. It has been a monumental achievement to get this far but 3 nil flattered them. The other big boys will knock Juventus out easily IMO.
Whenever Neil Lennon gets a team selection wrong we lose convincingly - no narrow margins. Think about it. Ross County, Hearts, Inverness, Sion, Braga, Utrecht. What he does do is LEARN from it and I'm sure he learned a harsh lesson last night.
I am honestly not trying to slag off Neil and the players. Just trying to show that at this level the margins of error are so thin and you get punished so easily. Its been a great journey but who knows - an early goal in Turin and we will be dreaming again!. . . hail!hail!. . . kbt1978

ps Commons - don't slag off your team-mate in public. You win and lose as a team. Not professional but we know you were hurting mate.

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Having read your post and can accept fully where your coming from. But. On another note I think that was maybe one of our best performances this season. And on a better night we might have won the game. 3 goals to nil certainly flattered our opponents. Chances were missed, red cards and penalties were weren't awarded, mistakes were fully punished. Mistakes that we might have got away with in other games. Referee was far to weak for a European tie involving Italians and their tricks. No I think Lenny and the bhoys should be heatened by the performance

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Great post mate. . . green jhedi

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We performed well especially the first half. Could not break them down. Just feel we should have set ourselves out as hard to beat - made them sweat in the return leg. . . . . kbt1978

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Commons didn't come out and say names, he said individual mistakes led to the goals

Garry

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Commons was right to be critical, and I think Ambrose would be critical of himself.

Quack

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Quotes attributed to him say Commons commented to the press that Ambrose was taken aside by the manager and asked if he was ok to play. Commons also said if he was not feeling OK he should have said to the manager. . . . kbt1978

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Fair comments. Commons statement was this actually what he said or are the press just suggesting things? If I could get the results Lenny has I would be coaching a major football club. Some players did not turn up last night, Lenny gambled and it did not work and let's not forget that there were some questionable decisions around the penalty area. I would like the same referee in the return game, because now we know the rules and can adapt accordingly. TinyTim

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13 Feb 2013 13:45:11
About time Watt was a regular in the fist team he did more when he came on than Forrest, he has sa much pace and trickery but is more of a goal threat.

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I would have him in before Forrest every time. I suspect Lenny was very disappointed in James last night. Never in it and did not work in to the game. . green jhedi

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Forrest is a moody brat, how often when he's tackled do the arms go up, he stops chasing, has a go at the assistant then ambles on back into position.

He doesn't show any real desire in his play, which obviously relates to attitude. Apart from the ambrose his inclusion really surprised me as he hasn't started a game since mid October. To then have mulgrew in midfield with ledley on the bench must've been devastating for the guy who absolutely works his socks off in every game.

I feel we missed him in midfield a lot more than we may have first realised especially given how high tempo and far up we were pushing them.

Forrest should feel remorse at least that he never grafted the way he should have but did this really and truly surprise anyone?

Jamie mac

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I really don't see all the hype about Forrest. His passing is woeful at times and his crossing in non existent most of the time. A sub at best to run at tired teams.

And as has been mentioned, he is a haughty git.

MgC

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13 Feb 2013 13:13:08
Some of the views from other countries on last night's set piece Juve 'defending' tactics

www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2013/feb/13/wrestling-corners-european-leagues

Mrs E

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Interesting read Mrs E. I remember the last time we played Juve, the ref warned the defender for pulling Sutty then gave the penalty when he carried on. This is what a strong ref should do. What we saw last night was a weak referee who decided to book two of our players and two of theirs. I would bet that if it happened, to the blatant level it did, in our box he would have given Juve the penalty. The most worrying question for me is what do the goal line officials actually do? We are constantly told the ref can't see everything, surely he should ask the line officials to keep an eye on it? Such a simple game being ruined by the governing bodies. . . green jhedi

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It's amazing that 50,000 plus can see these things happening but the ref and officals are only yards away but cant. Maybe need to install a head camera on the ref, dish out 3D glasses to the crowd so they can see what the ref sees.
Great post as always Mrs E.
TinyTim

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13 Feb 2013 12:16:00
After shaking off the pain of last night one thing has really pleased me today. I was out around 5 am this morning and have been, along with our page here, in contact with a few Tims and one bluenose. Said bluenose, after baiting me for a while, admitted he thought we played really well and three was never a true scoreline. But more importantly we, as Celtic supporters, seem to be on the same page. I have seen only one post being critical of Lenny. This, for me, is hugely encouraging. We were always punching above our weight in this stage, and the group as well if were honest, But I am positive Lenny will learn lessons from this.
1# I am sure Lenny would have asked Efie if he was ok, I am equally certain he must have looked fine in training, so I think it would be unfair to blame him for playing him.
2#Lenny has been very supportive of Forrest, he spotted him, nurtured him and added him to the first team squad, is it now time to be a bit more critical of him? My opinion is he will. I suspect James done himself no favours with the Gaffer last night.
3# Matthews can now be trusted to be a first pick. I feel the boy has suffered because Lenny had his go to guys, which is fine all managers do, Adam I think will now be one.
4# Ledley. Seems to be a bit out of favour at the moment. In my opinion we need him in the team, a selfless grafter and a real team player, More from him than Charlie? I think so.
5# Charlie. Three times last night I saw Lenny show anger at what he had done, I suspect he might be frustrated now, and he will shake him up I am sure.
. Finally. Juve cost over £100m to assemble, play in a high pressure environment every week and don't alter their style very often. If were honest, technically, their players were very good and very well drilled. It was a pipe dream to think we might go through but I still think if we had not lost that stupid first goal, which played right into their hands, we would have been a lot closer. So heads up Tims. Who knows maybe next year we might get revenge, I would welcome that. So let's stay behind the Gaffer and the Bhoys. The cold hard facts are they have made the club incredibly strong financially, and, in these times, that's a big deal. . . green jhedi

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Well said JD, I always support the team through thick & thin, no matter the score-line. Personally after the CL group daws i'd have been happy with 3rd & parachuted into the Europa league. But to be in the last 16, with wins against Barca & both games against Spartak, proved we can compete with the big boys. Hopefully we will be regulars in the following years.

JollyGreenGiant

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Yes jhedi we get the chin up, learn our lessons and go again. We matched up well maybe just lacking a bit guile and killer instinct.

If we learn the lessons properly we will add these dimensions. I also think as we get more European experience you will see our relatively naive side adopt some of the gamesmanship seen last night.

Juve thus got the job done in the end up but I am DELIGHTED with the performance. We already knew we needed a playmaker so nothing to learn there, the teams are so much more even in the last sixteen that teams have to be more, what word to use, cunning like they showed last night. Some are saying its foul play and against the spirit of the game but its not like they were kicking us in the throat.

The tactics juventus employed are an important part of top level football and to do it so well is to be admired in my opinion. Old school "rummilin em up" my dad calls it and he's probably right pretty sure they played the old catanaccio with the ref.

We know now better how to deal with it, sure it's now over this year but we gave a damn good account of ourselves last night. We weren't going to win it but haven't been out our depth against juve so with that in mind there can be only positives to be taken, flattering scoreline aside.

We await its return.

Jamie mac

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13 Feb 2013 07:05:29
Lenny got it nearly perfect even thou the score won't say but to any chairman in Europe watching last night will put Lenny on his want list just imagine what this guy could do with proper money behind him, unlucky Celtic best attacking performance in Europe I've seen and Lenny was right its a learning curv for are young bhoys well done

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The game was superb regardless off the score I just feel. we're missing someone special in the air to finish it. any one agree

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Are you drunk? We created one clear cut chance and Juventus never got out of neutral never mind first gear! We got torn about any time they decided to play and they looked more than comfortable at the back. They toyed with us for the entire game. If it shows anything the Celtic team are no better than Championship standard and that's at a massive push. Let's not be deluded here boys and girls.

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To "Are you drunk? We created one clear cut chance and Juventus never got out of neutral never mind first gear! We got torn about any time they decided to play and they looked more than comfortable at the back. They toyed with us for the entire game. If it shows anything the Celtic team are no better than Championship standard and that's at a massive push. Let's not be deluded here boys and girls. "

What bloody game did you watch? Celtic were always going to be outdone by the flair of the Italians but bloody hell we had more shots than them, more shots on target and decent possession. You are clearly a bitter current-bun so sod off back to D3 and worry about your winding up order. Can smell you from here! #hh

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