05 Nov 2015 22:19:02
So this is my take folks .
i think i just watched a re-run of a match a fortnight ago. The opponent let us have the ball, knew we would retain easy possession. but also knew that there were 6 candidates in hooped jerseys who would eventually make an abysmal pass. they would then attack with pace and make us look exposed. this was a REPEAT. of what we witnessed previously.
The shambles that is our defence repeats mistakes nowadays as a matter of course. The midfield repeatedly misplace passes and at one point tonight boyata made a hopeless pass only to get out of jail by getting the ball back . only to to then give the ball away again as a result of passing the ball in to traffic
Celtic players don't mean to go out and lose but this is what really shocked me
what members of the defence are prepared to go in where it hurts and put their body on the line for their teammates and the club? Firsst goal, good strike but Boyata doesn't attack the danger and turns away from the shot with no real desire to get in front of the ball
goal 2 and 2 decent opportunities to win the ball . Rogic first (but fails) and the Boyata at the opposite post . again no strength or desire to win the 2nd ball. the molde player wanted to score more than Boyata wanted to avert a goal. big worry
Folks, MOLDE FK could have had 5.the second half was dominated by a decent team who CAN pass, and have super pitch intelligence. They knew where to press and when to press and when to come forward in numbers.
We were predictable, one paced and second to too many balls; was there a decent tackle all night or a point where a player rallied the troops?
This was not a form thing. Tonight was not an economic mis-match. They were put together for a budget (4m euros) that we recently spent on a centre half who has played 3 games in 10. So this wasn't about money AND THAT IS THE GREATEST AFFRONT. That is the biggest worry.
Tactically, they came with the same plan and we didn't even attempt to counter the plan they had for us. What was our plan for them? We failed in the same areas we failed in a fortnight ago. We basically watched a re-run of a horror show.
Now RD will probably roll out with "we had good possession" blahblahbah . but we are now looking at a horrible set of stats
malmo 2goal giveaway
maribor home bore and a loss
fenerbahce 2 0 lead handed back
a resounding 5-2 loss to molde
2 leads thrown away to ajax
a crushing away defeat to a dinamo zagreb side that is the poorest of its class in 20 years
a royal pumping from legia warsaw
No amount of PR spin can alter the simple fact of the matter that we are very poor. With the exception of the turks above, money wasn't a handicap. This is more about management, set-ups, tactics, closing games down, good possession, good field intelligence, desire, hunger, heart, organisation, developing, progress et al.
Losing is bad enough but losing and going down with a whimper is insulting. Losing happens but when you lose and you endure a lacklustre performance it's a worry, but more alarmingly we are seeing the same mistakes week after week after week after week after week. Does that not concern anyone here?
If Celtic are progressing I am happy. Even routine blips (results wise) doesn't bother me if i am witnessing week on week month on month improvement and progress. My issue is that I watching the same mistakes week to week and gaping deficiencies going unchecked. Where is the redress?
The Scott Allan signing was a cheap stunt. The RD rant that attacked the press and Rangers (why? ) , and scottish football more generally was a deflection tactic. It was designed to make us think that the aggregate of the above noted agendas is clouding our judgement as fans.
I have no reason to dislike RD. But for the avoidance of doubt, I do not rate him. I have no agenda against RD, but I expect any manager/coach of celtic to improve his squad and get the very best out of them whether that be development, temperament, tactical noose, hunger, desire et al.
RD is NOT progressing the standard of first team play and I would not trust him in the 2015/2016 european campaign.
I know he doesn't necessarily get to sign who he wants but I assume he gets ti train, develop and pick the team and establish a style of play (and tactics) to thwart the advances of any opponent (or where we play superior opponents, the ability to suppress their qualities)
That being the case, he needs to be held personally accountable for a series of european debacles.
There is better out there who can get more from this team and drive a better european co-efficient without the need for any more money; I'm convinced by that now.
I hope we do turn it on against Ross County but should it be "a get out if jail free card" for the current management regime, NO!
I will leave PL and Mr Park for later but tonight needs to belong to RD solely and squarely
You'll disagree Old Bhoy I'm sure.
05 Nov 2015 22:41:41
Agree with every word of that paradise!
05 Nov 2015 22:49:44
Paradise Ronnie has signed 19 players. I don't believe he has not been part of the selection process. This is 19 not 5 or 6. We know he went after Berget ax he played for him before. I am sure he is more involved than some people want to admit to. Either way he ain't going to make it. Have said it since last season he has to go.
05 Nov 2015 22:57:40
I agree with everything you have written, Paradise, I mean I can't disagree with any of it, apart from the Scot Allan part, I realy rate him as a player, and if fit he should be in the team, there is a lot of whitewash and camouflage blaming lawwell and parks, but the only man to blame is Ronnie, you and others might blame LAWWELL for signing on the cheap, I have no idea how much he cost, but you just need to look on these pages and at the editors to see in a short space of time who became Ronnie diehards, they were mesmerised ito his way of thinking, they were following his dream, but footballs not like a jack black motivational lecture thing and he finishes and tells yo to go back and change your life but remember to come back next week with your chegue, ffootball is you have to perform every time you go onto the field, but the thing is I'm all mixed up now, but I think Ronnie is aswell, he has'nt a clue how to improve the team now, I have to admit Ronnie has to go, but I don't blame Lawwell for giving him a chance, I think he should be applauded, its a pity we did'nt get Paul Le Guen, at the time insread of Rangers, Paul L e Gue was very hard done by those idiots for trying to bring Ibrox into the modern world, but at least he had a proven history at top level football, Ronnie was our PLG, he had some of his modernising skills but not his management skills.
05 Nov 2015 23:21:03
Agree with the lot Paradise;
I have supported Celtic for over 50 yrs and have seen a lot of rough with the smooth and have been blessed with the sublime to which all Celtic teams and managers should strive to emulate.
We have a board who run a business with many perks but who care not a jot for the support or the football principles and philosophy that were instilled with our foundation.
We have cut so many corners and economised on quality and standards so much we have went alarmingly backward in terms of reputation, expectation and Acceptability.
I have given RD the benefit of the doubt for long enough, but he has all-but destroyed our European ambition and we have deteriorated drastically under his reign.
The promises and philosophy appears to be nothing more than the patter of a snake oil salesman; with no sign of the high tempo, slick footballing team with superior fitness!
I think virtually any manager could win the title with the resources and facilities at our disposal in the situation we are in these past few years and if that is what this board see as success then we need to give them a wee hint that we are as mad as hell and we're not going to take it any more - to coin a phrase.
05 Nov 2015 23:45:23
I have no axe to grind with RD; I don't know the man…
but managers need to be judged on performance and progress. The benchmark is often results, but the real clue is in the performances because results can tell a story that isn't quite accurate
RD's playground is not the SPL…. it is champions league qualification and/or europa league competitiveness
There are teams in the champions league who spend less than we do and are able to put on a performance and compete
we used to expect to qualify for the ECL and push for the last 16
then we were happy just to get in to the ECL groups for exposure (with no hope for last 16)
then we were just happy to make it to the final qualifying game to enter the ECL because it guaranteed european football to christmas (through the Europa League)
then we expected to qualify from the second tier europa league
now we are propping up that 2nd tier league with 2 points from a possible 12 …2 from 12 folks with the benefit of having played the "group whipping boys" twice
unfortunately we didn't see the weakest link trouncing us home and away
just how far are we prepared to drop
more importantly, what do we need to do to reverse this pitiful trend that could see us failing to get through to the 2nd round of qualifiers for the Champions League never mind the final qualifier
this could see us playing in a play off to get in to the 2nd tier competition
what will become of us when we don't make that competition
progress?
progress my backside
and to make matters worse, a squad that doesn't know if it is coming or going with players who performed in the past suffering from a crisis in confidence
we have had the commons debacle
the ciftci selection head scratcher
the awol scott allan
izzy's relegation and re-introduction and relegation again
ambrose's countless bombscare moments
a 1st pick centre half (boyata) that looks bewildered and plays every week as though it is the first time he has kicked a ball
a hapless goalie who looks less sure of himself than ever before (on a new contract)
a stop-start forrest
an awol GMS
an ineffective armstrong played out of position and becoming progressively worse and less relevant
thank the lord for young kierney …but does that not really say it all?
05 Nov 2015 23:49:50
JJ
very well put sir!
05 Nov 2015 23:51:30
Paradise won or two I don't really care, we were stiffed tonight, the defence is absolutely shocking and I for one worry about young Tierney, playing in a defence like that, he is a smashing young player and I just think his confidence could be affected playing I'm a defence like that . Now I'm fed up coming on here and reading all your shit, more than half of you come on here and want to write war and peace, and the other half want revolutions, this is supposed to be a banter . Page . ffs I've not seen any banter on here for months Jesus Christ, I am retired, but some of you guys on here need a serious look at yourself. Talk about grumpy old men ffs. Get a Grip.
05 Nov 2015 22:35:50
That's probably your best post PW ever
Over to you Ed? we know you like to let the dust settle mate but in the cold light of day you will be hurting too
We got a "fluke" goal against a poor team and are piss poor
What's your take on it? (y)
{Ed007's Note - Disappointed, Jamie but not surprised, it was another game that we could have won and ended up losing. Simunovic going off early was another example of how our luck seems to be going in Europe but you can't blame RD for taking the risk when you look at the alternatives, our defence is so fragile and low on confidence we seem to be rushing him a bit too much for me and the Molde player played it cute going in for that tackle.
The first goal would never have happened if Scott Brown was on the park, that's his area and Elyounoussi wouldn't have had so much time on the ball.
All the usual suspects in key positions let us down, Griffiths miss when he was 1 on 1 with their GK showed again that he shouldn't be first choice in Europe - and as for Citci, did he get a touch when he came on?
Blackett, Commons, Forrest, Armstrong, Boyata were all unimpressive and Bitton and Rogic had the type of game you just need to forget about with young players - we all want them in the team but when it goes wrong a lot of fans pounce on it and blow it out of all proportions - it will happen with Tierney at some point, fans are putting that lad under far too much pressure with their expectations already, it's time to take a step back and let him develop.
Is Craig Gordon even worth mentioning? And I got grief for questioning that signing to replace an England internationalist (rofl)
We tried to bring in Gordon Strachan to mentor NL, it's time we brought in a Director of Football to wrestle the power back at the club back to football rather than balance sheets. Sacking RD will achieve nothing as Rocky and Bullwinkle will still be in control, they're the problem.}
06 Nov 2015 06:41:18
Celtic Jerseys don't shrink to fit inferior players - Need to find out who is doing the laundry at present.
While I still feel RD is not experienced enough for the managers job, he has no backing. Collins (dont get me started), Defense (Kennedy and McGrain - nice guys but the results of their work are plain to see) . PL - I don't think I need to comment on his part.
After the last debacle we went out and humped Utd and for many, everything was coming together. Part 2 coming up - humped by that lot last night then we will destroy Ross County.
Just not good enough - No fight, no passion and a bunch of also-rans who are supposedly professionals. Losing is bad enough but its the way we are being beaten.
06 Nov 2015 07:18:49
To costa Tim
That is the most patronising post I've ever read
A
You don't need to read lengthy posts
B
I will post prose as long or as short as I like
C
Grumpy old men? I'm younger than our manager Ffs
D
Read A and B again and again and again and you'll get the gist of what I'm saying.
{Ed001's Note - I think the word irony is relevant here. An old man ranting about others being 'grumpy old men'!}
06 Nov 2015 09:18:02
Utter bollocks Paradisewon. You have a vendetta against Ronny Deila and like to portray yourself as having all the answers.
The key points to the situation we are in are:
1. John Park is solely responsible for dross that we have in squad. He is the one who is the weakest link at club and untill he is removed, no matter who is manager we will not progress.
2. Peter Lawwell is far too interested in his ego, thinking that he can continually do things on cheap in a trial and error manner hoping every signing will turn a Wanyama style profit. He is not football minded and has to go.
3. Backroom staff. My main issue when Lennon was appointed manager, was him having no experience. No member of coaching team, should have no experience prior to being appointed. John Kennedy was appointed out of sorrow for an early retirement due to injury. We should of appointed someone like Joe Jordan
4. How many managers knocked back job before Deila was appointed? Nobody of significance wants job, because there is far too much interferance at boardroom level. Expect someone like Owen Coyle to replace Deila if he is relieved of duties.
Untill Lawwell is away, expect things to get a hell of a lot worse.
06 Nov 2015 07:13:32
Insightful as ever ed.
06 Nov 2015 09:22:37
Think you can split the people on here up into a lot of categories, there's the ones that think Ronnies a good manager and he's just not getting the backing and the players just are'nt good enough, then there are the ones that think Ronnies not a good manager and he's making a group of good players look bad, then there are the people who have their favourite players like what's hisname, who seems to have an unhealthy hatred of Scott Brown, then there's the Ed, who can say Griffithsshould. nt be first choice in Europe cause he misses a chance, but Bitton and Rogic were just having a bad night, me, I am glad Johansenn is banned for the next European game, and I don't think Ronnie is a good manager,
{Ed007's Note - At European level top strikers put chances like Griffiths, away, that's the difference and that's why since the day he signed I have consistently said LG isn't and never will be good enough to play at any higher level than the SPFL.
Bitton has probably been our most consistent player this year and this is Rogic's first season as a first-team regular but you've decided neither of them are good enough because of last night - as I said, it'll be young Tierney's turn soon enough when he plays a bad game or makes a mistake.
You forgot to mention the category that don't know what they're talking, get their opinions from reading the media trashing our manager and team and just jump on the bandwagon, then there's the morons who seem to revel in us getting beat as it gives them some kind of superiority complex because no matter what RD does they'll nevrr be happy.
06 Nov 2015 13:45:25
Did'nt mean to be critical or over critical, of Bitton or Rogic, was just trying to point out your over critiscm of Griffiths, as even the best of strikers miss sitters now and again, which is similar to celticforever constant critiscm of Scott Brown, am sure Tierney will go on to have an outstanding career at Celtic, which makes me wonder how is that young Irish lad that plays CB, is he not good enough to get a chance in the first team.
{Ed007's Note - So I'm wrong to criticise LG after missing an absolute sitter even though it backs up what I have CONSISTENTLY said since he signed?}
06 Nov 2015 13:57:19
A think Ed sadly RD is getting to a point he cannot retrieve it mate!
I cannot see why people are up in arms about the youth what do they honestly expect to get from Blackett and Boyata? before arriving @ CP they had hardly played a FULL season between them in terms of experience!
But you of all Ed must see how UNFIT they look? (said last night even LG looked knackered after 60 mins! )
But they look not only that they look as though they are NOT even trying ffs confidence gone when a goal down
PL ain't coming out saying much and that is MEEK IMO (y)
{Ed007's Note - I wouldn't blame RD for chucking it, he should tell Pedro to ram it and then we'll see the level of coach that comes in next. It'll be another young coach brought in to work with players that Rocky and Bullwinkle have decided are in the right financial bracket rather than having the football ability to play for CFC.
What do fans expect when we're signing average players like Gordon, Armstrong, GMS, Griffiths, Ciftci and mixing it with dross like Forrest and Commons?
Whomever replaces RD will still have the same problems, the player recruitment at the club is a joke.}
06 Nov 2015 18:39:01
I think the Ed 07 is fairly spot on with his assessment . Hindsight is a very valuable commodity but one or two posters on here were forecasting a Celtic victory because Scot Brown was missing . I disagreed before the match and watching the match confirmed just how much we missed ou captain and best midfielder .
I wonder can we play Bitton and Rogic on the one team . In the second half especially both were caught taking three, four or five touches of the ball.
People have derided Ambrose and he has made mistakes but he would have attacked the ball better than Blackatt who just hasn't got it . Griffith's really should have scored in the second half, it was ridiculously easy and when a striker like Griffiths misses a chance like that, it doesn't help the rest of the team or the manager .
Two borderline off sides , a couple of close calls, a couple of fantastic saves by their goalie plus the Griffith miss added to two bad goals given away, yet Deila gets all the crap.