28 Jul 2015 10:31:53
I'm sure if I rake through old posts I'll find a few arguments regarding Neil Lennon not playing or blooding youth players.
I was never really in the criticising of Lennon camp on this matter and I'm just wondering with hindsight and a year down the line with Ronny what the thoughts are now.
All the players we spoke about have been moved on and have done nothing really to justify a first team place at Celtic. Lennon and Ronny have both played Liam Henderson so I'm not really talking about him. Lennon came in more for criticism with players like Chalmers, Irvine, Twardzik and a few more. Lennon did play these players (on occasion) but they never really overly impressed and I think time has shown - Lennon was right.
It kinda also raises the standards at youth level. These players are the best in Scotland, of that I have no doubt but the gulf between actually breaking through to the first team seems huge for the biggest percentage of them.
Other Clubs are not any different, I mind Scott Allan being sold from Dundee Utd to WBA and Fraser Fyvie from Aberdeen to Wigan both were the next big thing. Allan is now 23 and in the Scottish Championship (I do think he's a decent player though) and Fyvie is a bit younger at 22 but also in the Scottish Championship. Have they gone backwards since Dundee Utd and Aberdeen - I don't know.?
I know it's a age old adage but our grassroots is needing ripped up and start again.
28 Jul 2015 11:54:16
If they are good enough they will play. None of them are good enough and that says a lot about our system. Not good things either.
Even Henderson isn't good enough.
We haven't produced a gifted player for donkeys years.
28 Jul 2015 13:11:52
You're not wrong in your observations I don't think. All I will add is that I think it will take a few years to really see the plan in motion with regards to the quality of youths coming through. RDs track record of developing kids speaks for itself. But it won't happen over a season. Especially not a managers debut season. It's a bit of a catch 22 though. Do you keep youngsters here to develop with our acclaimed coaches and set up, or send them out on loan to gain first team experience in a competitive environment? Suppose it would depend on the individual.
28 Jul 2015 13:38:47
Not trying to be critical, but, keep hearing about RD,s ability to bring on young and develope others. Can only really think of Odegard, and the only real thing he has achieved is a transfer to Madrid. Genuine query, who are the others and what are they doing now?
{Ed007's Note - Between 2001-2007 not ONE single Stromsgodset player earned a youth/under-21 cap for Norway. However, in just 5 years under Deila, the figure reached 179, that's works out at an average of 36 per season.}
28 Jul 2015 13:44:57
I've always agreed with that all along magicpole - if you are good enough and showing the right attitude in training etc, there's no Manager in the world that wouldn't play you.
I don't know if anyone is really impressing Ronny enough at this moment in time Jim. I don't think he'd have any problem playing a young player either if he thought they were good enough.
I just remember the argument about Lennon having his favourites and not giving the youth a chance. With hindsight, seems his favourites were our best players at that time.
28 Jul 2015 15:03:58
Any news on Calvin Millar? Was expecting him to get some first team action in Friendlies after his vote as best young player in the world for his age group.
I think it will be another year before we see a Celtic youth product in the first team.
We have good young players in the squad now and more than a few are Scottish, hope there in the national team soon as surely playing for Celtic in Europe is of a higher standard than the Championship players that get picked the now.
28 Jul 2015 15:10:07
How much of that can be put down to Deila though Ed? Did the scouting system change when he arrived there or was the improvement more of a consequence of the changes he made throughout the club's set up? Or both perhaps?
{Ed007's Note - God forbid RD should get any credit for the successes of a club he managed for 6 years. Maybe he fathered the 179 of them and bribed the Norwegian FA and the relevant coaches to call up players from the club he built up. Maybe it's all some sort of Nazi like genetic engineering conspiracy to make Norway a new superpower in the world of football using a squad of super-enhanced sportsmen who were all pre-programmed in the womb to be successful footballers and RD stumbled upon the plot and blackmailed them to let him tag along for shits and giggles.
Or have you ever thought that RD might be some kind of Bond villain or mad professor?
How many of the Lions did Jock Stein bring to the club?}
28 Jul 2015 15:20:57
Stefan Johansen, Anders Konradsen, Iver Fossum, Gustav Wikheim is just some of the young players besides Ødegaard. But at Strømsgodset it took a three-four years begore the youth players got the results, cause they all got the Deila way from the age of 12 and up. It takes some time for the right minded youth to get the fitness and such to evolve. I saw a couple of the Celtic's U17 games, and you can see the players allready being more sharp than the other players, and I think a fair share of those players could make it, but not in a while yet though.
28 Jul 2015 15:24:52
and ED, even I was not aware of those stats. Hopefully Celtic would get the same results in some years
28 Jul 2015 18:23:26
Don't understand what your reply was all about Ed. As someone in the know I thought you'd have been able to tell me about the changes that were made and how much of it was implemented by RD himself and whether he had brought others involved to Celtic with him. My reason for asking was to gain insight and get and understanding of what to expect from our own club in the coming years. You've either took my question completely the wrong way or you're just having a bad day. I'm still interested if you fancy giving me a proper answer.
{Ed007's Note - It's well known and been discussed at length on here what he done in Norway and we've had NorwegianRed, who knows more than me about RD's methods, talking about how he transformed Srtromsogdest.
If you read back it came across that you were trying to take away from his work and looking to give others credit, oh if it wasn't RD's own personal choice of scouts it can't be anything he done, remember he came here and didn't even have a say in who his assistant was going to be.}
28 Jul 2015 18:43:13
I'm fairly ignorant to RD's time in Norway so I don't know enough to play down or take away from his importance to Stroemgodset. I was just looking for some insight into what is being put in place to change our club in a similar way. I'm sure others do deserve credit also Ed but if they're carrying out RD's ideas for the most part then hopefully he can have similar results here. Have to admit though, I did like the obscure Nazi rant lol.
{Ed007's Note - I've picked you up wrong, Kev, sorry about that.}
28 Jul 2015 19:56:04
Kevbhoy, I could only say what Deila did with his youthsystem in Strømsgodset, but i'll take a guess he has done somewhat the same in Celtic. As he says himself he loves to bring out the best in people on any level, he makes shure every level is playing the same way, with the same intencity and the same diet rules. As long as your not in the fitness room you don't run without a ball in your feet, getting a lot more secure with the ball at an early stage.
A base is made in the age of 10-15, so (as we allways done in Norway) we use way to much just running a lot to improve fitness at that age and we don't excacly have tons of players confident with a ball, but its really starting to turn around.
Check out his lecture on youtube, 45 mins where he explains it so good. Its all about man managment, bolsting confidence and not having your head cut of if doing a mistake, but instead resolve any issues and building confidence.
"if you could promote only one player every season, your youth academy is a success"
28 Jul 2015 20:45:27
If, and I'm not trying to jinx him, RD's tenure as manager comes to an end before I'd hope, then I pray he stays to some capacity, or that at bare minimum what he may have established already continues to run. The guys only been in a year but he may already have set a legacy that could last generations.
28 Jul 2015 21:08:27
Norwegianred, he is a qualified teacher after all isn't he? And that's what it is. An education from a young age. Teaching players not just to be fit, not just to be comfortable with the ball, but also to use their heads, and be in the right place mentally. Too often you see players who are there physically and even technically but can't orchestrate or organise a game. Educating kids in these areas will benefit Celtic, but like I say, It'll mainly be the next batch or generation of players where we hopefully realise the rewards. Were in good stead long term. More so than we have been in decades imo. That is why I feel RD deserves some significant short to mid-term investment.
29 Jul 2015 18:18:48
Your right, JimTim. He is a teacher by profession, and uses a lot of mentall training himself as well as the players. If their mental aspect is good, your progress will be much better. that's the most commond reason why youngsters seldom make it in bigger clubs, cause they may be to nervous, alone and no one to talk to. Like Deila says, we deal with human beings not just footballers and you can clearly see the players take care of each other as well as the coaching staff etc etc.